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COMIC STORES 2023: 'IT'S NEARLY 2024 AND I'M MORE THAN CONCERNED'
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Started by Prince Namor,

545 posts in this topic

CAHokie

CAHokie

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On 11/24/2023 at 2:52 PM, Brock said:

Ok, I’m losing track of this thread… is it bad movies or good pickles that are killing comic book stores in 2023?

Pickles for sure.

On 11/24/2023 at 2:49 PM, VintageComics said:

I'll bet you a jar of pickles Virgos out number other signs when it comes to loving pickles. :devil:

You can send them tomorrow. Thanks!

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Buzzetta

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On 11/24/2023 at 2:49 PM, VintageComics said:

I'll bet you a jar of pickles Virgos out number other signs when it comes to loving pickles. :devil:

While I am sure you love a good pickle, give these a try. 

Try the pickle spears first.  But then feel free to use the pickle chips on burgers or sandwiches.  I've actually diced them to use in other recipes too. 

Again, these pickles were deemed so good that their packager allegedly stole the recipe and opened a pickle business of their own. 

https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/grillos-pickles-lawsuit-claims-competitor-stole-its-100-year-old-family-recipe/3MER74KYXJFXRLVUDWDSYIYE7U/

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CAHokie

CAHokie

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On 11/24/2023 at 2:56 PM, Chip Cataldo said:

Total BS, as I'm an Aries and I love pickles. No jokes, please. :foryou:

I know nothing about signs but i pulled it from an Astrology site. It was easy to prove Vintage wrong. I think that makes me 5 and 0 on bets. :whee:

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Buzzetta

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On 11/24/2023 at 2:55 PM, CAHokie said:

Pickles for sure.

You can send them tomorrow. Thanks!

IMG_0974.thumb.jpeg.e10faae7712a996298dab81ee4ee0353.jpeg

Yeah I would be in the anti pickle category and I love a good pickle. 

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CAHokie

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On 11/24/2023 at 2:58 PM, Buzzetta said:

Yeah I would be in the anti pickle category and I love a good pickle. 

To be fair, my stance is that signs have no relevance on pickle loving. However, to prove Vintage wrong I decided to let the Astrology sites decide and they claim Virgos are anti-pickle so he can now send me a Grillo’s package.

Edited by CAHokie
Are not ate, but ate was an appropriate typo in this case.
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Prince Namor

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On 11/24/2023 at 11:32 PM, Buzzetta said:

That does make sense.  There is one additional piece to this puzzle which would be held within the actual contract that I cannot find.  There would be a difference between intent to produce and intent to produce and release.   Again, I am not pretending to know the absolute intent behind the Cormon FF.  

Eichinger might have have truly wanted to release the 1994 version of Fantastic Four and figured that he could kill two birds with one stone.  He could film it cheap enough so that after enough interest is generated, that even if it underperforms he still makes enough money to cover the financial backing or doesn't lose too much where the losses are still less than what it would have cost to re-option the rights, and he still keeps the option to make another one somewhere down the line. 

If though Eichinger had to show that he not only had to produce the film to retain the rights but demonstrate the intent to release it with a good faith effort, he MAY have gone through the motions to satisfy all aspects of the contract.  I would love to read the actual contract. 

 

Side note:  I do not believe that Captain America ever became a financial success. 

Something I did find though which is interesting:

You may be correct that the financing was just not there at all for Marvel movies.   Like I said, WB changes the expected budgets to produce a good superhero movie, but it looks like studios are passing on Marvel properties until New Line options Blade, while the Cameron Spider-man, which seemed to be the only real property that a real studio was interested in, remained in developmental Hell.   It is telling that a bigger studio did not believe in the strength of Captain America.   This is not an armchair quarterback statement either, as one of the first "keys" I purchased was my copy of Avengers 4 over 25 years ago.   I said even back then, Captain America should be a major movie as all of the elements were there.  It was also the first key I upgraded to a CGC slab when they first entered the scene. 

Personally I think Eichinger set out to get it done because he felt Marvel would jump to buy back the rights so it wouldn't get made.

They didn't.

So they kept making the film. He kept waiting.

Finally it was done, so he thought, "Well, I got a movie, I may as well release it."

So they began promoting it.

THAT is when Marvel noticed and said, "WAAAAAIIIITTTT a minute..."

A deal was made - they bought it back - and Avi had all the copies destroyed. 

 

It's not the version that butt hurt actors and directors want to tell. It doesn't make good sympathy documentaries, 

But it makes the most sense. 

 

The movie would've been released. But Marvel Studios saw it as an embarrassment, so they spent, really in 1994 what was NOTHING to buy back the rights and kill it.

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Mr Sneeze

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On 11/24/2023 at 2:40 PM, VintageComics said:

Condescension implies intent.

I sometimes have trouble condensing my thoughts (obviously, duh lol), I get eager being ADHD and probably somewhat autistic, but I never intend to sound condescending. 

We have a very broad audience with varying levels of understanding and I just wanted to put it in crayon for people who may not understand where I'm coming from, which happens regularly on the internet. 

There are condescending people here in this very thread, and they've trolled me for years but I'm not one of them. My intent has ever, always been to learn, have fun and foster positive discourse and this thread is proof of how a conversation can be great and educational when people are not trying to cancel the conversation, get someone banned, bait them into difficult situations or just plan attack them to shame them like you're doing now. 

Condescending people shut conversations down. When is the last time someone saw me shut down a conversation?

Now when is the last time you saw someone try to shut me down? :wink:

People have been trolling me for years trying to paint me for a dummy and they did it by trying to shut me up mid sentence all the time. I'm very thankful that Moderation is allowing longform conversation and moderating all the people who used just bring unproductive insults into the convo. 

You've been trolling me for a long time and Mike has already asked you stop. Now I'm asking you stop. 

Did you have something to add of value?

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VintageComics

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On 11/24/2023 at 2:52 PM, Brock said:

Ok, I’m losing track of this thread… is it bad movies or good pickles that are killing comic book stores in 2023?

That depends on what your birth sign is...I think. 

Cliff's Notes, @CAHokie ? EDIT: Nevermind, he's provided evidence. :cool:

On a slight tangent, this is why a lot of people reference "The Matrix" when discussing these sorts of things. There is quite literally an "information wall" being built around society - everyone can see it happening in real time and you can read about it, and that 'wall' comes between the truth - which is protected by authority and segregated from the common people so that average person can't discern what's really happening. How many people in this thread knew all of this? I'd bet very few, thanks to a few who continue to push you to appeal to authority. The same authority that is building the wall around you. lol

There really isn't an aspect of your life that isn't affected and everyone should pay more attention to those that seem bent on not wanting to have a discussion, or to push you to towards authority, because there are several in this very thread who keep trying to do so. I'd name names but I don't want a strike. 

Anyway, I think I've made my point.

Independent comics are truly the way to go for pure, uncorrupted storytelling.

---------------------------------------

As far as the secondary market goes, I thought about this and I truly believe it will thrive as people look for authenticity and artifacts that represent a previous time, before everything changed. 

One of the things I love most about the Silver Age was the age of innocence it represented, when live was less complicated and more authentic and transparent and I think as population expands, and more and more artificial stuff is pushed onto people, those who crave authenticity will seek it out in old artifacts from history with pop culture and comics being a truly American, pure art form. Assets are what all the rich people are buying up as we speak. 

Edited by VintageComics
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CAHokie

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On 11/24/2023 at 3:06 PM, 1Cool said:

What constitutes a pickle lover??  Is there a scale we can use to weed out the pickle liker’s from the lovers?

Maybe?

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Prince Namor

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On 11/24/2023 at 11:31 PM, VintageComics said:

The quality of the food matters much less in the 2nd example, because the quantity of the food matters much more. 

LOL. It's so funny how you say this like it's some new thing...

On 11/24/2023 at 11:31 PM, VintageComics said:

I made this point that I'm about to make below, many years ago:

What is happening is that ideological / philosophical paths are being exposed. There are two of them, they are wholly incompatible, and they diverged a long time ago.

On 11/24/2023 at 11:31 PM, VintageComics said:

One path believes in working along strict, ideological, objective TRULY sustainable principles. This path never compromises on it's own principles because they are time proven. To put out quality, you need consistency in things like a code of behavior, and operating principles. Quality over profit plays a much longer game and is much more successful at longevity. This is how empires are built.

The other path believes it can make up the rules as they go along and tosses out objectivity for subjectivity, so it will absolutely cross it's own principles for profit every chance it gets. This path ALWAYS compromises on it's own principles for profit. It must, because if there is more profit, it must be searched out at the expense of anything else. The 'long game' on this path is really just a bunch of constant short games, being presented as an 'equal' long game through media manipulation, advertising, marketing, corporate espionage etc. JUST LIKE WE OUTLINED IN THIS THREAD. 

THIS IS THE OPPOSITE OF SUSTAINABLE, PRESENTING ITSELF AS SUSTAINABLE.

And we all know that in any equation, when there is one false premise, everything built on it will be incorrect. That's how corporate business works. 

OMG. This has been going on from before you were born.

And IT IS sustainable for the those on the 'other path'.

Marvel Comics was BORN out of ripping off Carl Burgos, Bill Everett, Joe Simon and Jack Kirby. It was ALWAYS about Profit over Creativity. 

Stan Lee didn't change that, he just dressed it up differently and ripped off Kirby again and Ditko as well. 

You think Secret Wars was about 'creativity'? Annuals? Crossovers?

On 11/24/2023 at 11:31 PM, VintageComics said:

I always go back to the old world thinking in the automotive industry, which everyone can see and understand.

In the 1980's, corporate boardrooms hadn't yet corrupted German manufacturers and they were still building cars that were supposed to last forever. Benz had a MILLION MILE GUARANTEE on their cars for certain parts. True story. 

America was already building cars in the new world way. After the oil crisis of the 70s, using corporate driven board rooms that sought ways to squeeze blood from a stone, instead of using time honored principles, American cars were sold as quality but were absolute junk.

What happened in the 90s, was as media exploded, the digital age began to commence, and the world became wildly aware of how big of a market there was, the American corporate boardroom invaded all economic systems and greed drove even the staunch German auto manufacturers to compromise their products. 

I was there. The mid to late 90's Benzs became the most problematic cars in their entire history. One single model, the SUV ML model, built in conjunction with the US (remember, Benz merged with Chrysler and this was their first product) had more recalls than all other models combined in their 100 year history. 

That is what is happening today everywhere. You're being fed junk, being convinced it isn't junk and most people have been dumbed down too far to be able to tell the difference. 

Time for consumers to see past the razzle dazzle and make wiser choices. 

And now the average person can actually afford a 'Benz'. 

I owned a 1999 Infiniti I30 (all black, black leather interior, factory Bose Speakers, sun roof) and drove it for 252,000 miles. Mass produced in Tennessee from parts made all over the world. Never had a problem with that car. 

I don't doubt any of what you said above other than... the junk part.

I think cars are better made now than they've ever been.

Are they individually mastered, one at a time piece of perfect machinery?

No. Because that wouldn't be sustainable to a mass market.

Very few could afford it.

Edited by Prince Namor
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Prince Namor

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On 11/25/2023 at 3:22 AM, VintageComics said:

Independent comics are truly the way to go for pure, uncorrupted storytelling.

Well see there, we agree on something.

Of course this was my philosophy back in the early 90's...

On 11/25/2023 at 3:22 AM, VintageComics said:

As far as the secondary market goes, I thought about this and I truly believe it will thrive as people look for authenticity and artifacts that represent a previous time, before everything changed.

The 'thrive' part of it is becoming very exclusive to high dollar comics that most of the fanbase can't afford. 

We have a whole generation of fans growing up who read things strictly digital. 

On 11/25/2023 at 3:22 AM, VintageComics said:

One of the things I love most about the Silver Age was the age of innocence it represented

LOL. Oh Lord...

You mean from the perspective of 6 year olds who're now almost 70 and buy comics from you because they're still caught up in that nostalgia?

It was far from 'innocent'.

I thought those people bothered you because they're not paying attention to the reality of what's truly going on?

Edited by Prince Namor
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Prince Namor

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On 11/25/2023 at 3:22 AM, VintageComics said:

One of the things I love most about the Silver Age was the age of innocence it represented, when live was less complicated and more authentic and transparent and I think as population expands, and more and more artificial stuff is pushed onto people, those who crave authenticity will seek it out in old artifacts from history with pop culture and comics being a truly American, pure art form. Assets are what all the rich people are buying up as we speak. 

Like when Cigarette companies suppressed data showing that lung cancer and other diseases were caused by their product? Even going so far as to use Doctors in their advertisements to make it seem safe?

Dig a little deeper, slugger. Corporations and Government have been lying to people since the dawn of time. 

 

Edited by Prince Namor
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WeR138

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On 11/24/2023 at 3:59 PM, Prince Namor said:

Like when Cigarette companies surpassed data showing that lung cancer and other diseases were caused by their product? Even going so far as to use Doctors in their advertisements to make it seem safe?

Dig a little deeper, slugger. Corporations and Government have been lying to people since the dawn of time. 

 

Finally! Something everyone here can agree on.

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