The first official FF cross-over 0

[gunsmokin]

Amazing Spider-Man 1 is always designated as the first official cross-over title for the Fantastic Four, at least as far as CGC is concerned. However, Strange Tales 106 was published on the exact same week as ASM 1. Thoughts?

[namisgr]

With the Torch and Thing as the heroes for the title, it's hard for me to think of an appearance by Reed and Sue as a crossover for the team as a whole.  But yes, it is an appearance by the whole team in a book not named Fantastic Four.  So it's a 'tweener' for me.

Edited November 23, 2023 by namisgr

[marvelmaniac]

Amazing Spider-Man 1 and Strange Tales 106, Release Date, December 10, 1962, Cover Date, March, 1963

Which is the 1st crossover?

Just to add more fuel to the fire, The F.F. appeared in the 1st story in ST 106 but did not appear in ASM 1 until the 2nd story, the entire team is shown on the cover of both, so...

[KirbyJack]

On 11/23/2023 at 7:38 AM, namisgr said:

With the Torch and Thing as the heroes for the title, it's hard for me to think of an appearance by Reed and Sue as a crossover for the team as a whole.  But yes, it is an appearance by the whole team in a book not named Fantastic Four.  So it's a 'tweener' for me.

I didn’t think Benjy was co-starring in Strange Tales at that point. So I vote “Yes!”

Considering further that Hulkie showed up in FF 12 that month, leads me to believe that guest appearances were intentional that month.

[KirbyJack]

Thinking about it, it’s really hard to pin down exactly when The Thing starts to co-star. 
I’m still good with 106’s status, tho.

[Readcomix]

On 11/23/2023 at 3:09 PM, KirbyJack said:

Thinking about it, it’s really hard to pin down exactly when The Thing starts to co-star. 
I’m still good with 106’s status, tho.

I’d vote for 123 as the start of the Thing as a co-star.

[namisgr]

The Thing first appears in the title as a supporting player in ST 101.  Sue is a supporting character in 102 and a main part of the plot in 105.  But while the FF get mention right from the start of the switch to superhero in 101, they don't appear as a foursome in the first five issues.

Edited November 24, 2023 by namisgr

[MattTheDuck]

Some of this is just semantic gymnastics, but the Torch is already in the book over all these issues and is also part of the Fantastic Four.  I don't know how you can "cross over" into your own book.

[namisgr]

I guess it's the whole team that the hobby generally accepts for appearance in a title other than their own for the criterion of a team crossover.

And I agree with you that it's fun as a talking point but doesn't matter a hoot beyond that, much like discussions around when the Bronze and Copper Ages began.

[Jaylam]

Isn't one a "cameo" and the other a "first full appearance" outside their own title??? Of course, which is which?

[namisgr]

On 11/26/2023 at 12:05 PM, Jaylam said:

Isn't one a "cameo" and the other a "first full appearance" outside their own title??? Of course, which is which?

Not exactly in this case.  Sue has a major role in the Torch story in Strange Tales #105.  It's not a cameo, but it's also not a crossover appearance of the entire Fantastic Four.  Confounding matters of interpretation is that a member of the team is the recurring star of the book in issue after issue.

[Gaard]

I'm not sure "a member of the team" should enter into the equation. If it did, wouldn't that make things confusing when considering the Avengers?

[KirbyJack]

I say the more the merrier. I hadn’t considered it before, but now I’m officially adding it to the “first x over” list.

[BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES]

The fact that the cover calls it a "guest appearance" means they were presenting it as a cross-over

[Spaceguy]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:43 AM, BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES said:

The fact that the cover calls it a "guest appearance" means they were presenting it as a cross-over

You won me over with this argument.  Good for you for pointing out the obvious!