Is this mold? 3 3

[stormflora]

I’ve seen this sort of thing in a few comic issues so far, to varying severity. The photos I’ve attached are of one single issue, on multiple pages. It’s the most conservative example I have. 
 

In the other issues, they are larger in diameter or have blotched into other areas as well. But all the same colour and seem to come from the nail. 
 

I don’t smell anything in particular but I am nonetheless concerned. 

[stormflora]

Here are photos of another issue:

And here is another issue:

[grendelbo]

Most likely stains due to migration from rusty staples.

[Cnight]

Not an expert but methinks some kind of chemical reaction happened; I’m going to say foxing (decomposing) of the paper, and the black around the staples is probably a byproduct of the nickel or some element in the steel used for the staples.

 

@joeypost you got any insight, superman?

[AJD]

As pointed out, that's rust migration from the staples into the paper. Incidentally, the book with shiny staples and rust stains has almost certainly had the staples cleaned or replaced, so would get a conserved grade.

[joeypost]

On 12/8/2023 at 6:56 AM, AJD said:

As pointed out, that's rust migration from the staples into the paper. Incidentally, the book with shiny staples and rust stains has almost certainly had the staples cleaned or replaced, so would get a conserved grade.

This. 

[Cnight]

On 12/8/2023 at 7:56 AM, AJD said:

As pointed out, that's rust migration from the staples into the paper. Incidentally, the book with shiny staples and rust stains has almost certainly had the staples cleaned or replaced, so would get a conserved grade.

Oh dang! That’s a great catch!

[stormflora]

On 12/8/2023 at 3:54 AM, grendelbo said:

Most likely stains due to migration from rusty staples.

 

On 12/8/2023 at 7:35 AM, Cnight said:

Not an expert but methinks some kind of chemical reaction happened; I’m going to say foxing (decomposing) of the paper, and the black around the staples is probably a byproduct of the nickel or some element in the steel used for the staples.

 

@joeypost you got any insight, superman?

 

On 12/8/2023 at 7:56 AM, AJD said:

As pointed out, that's rust migration from the staples into the paper. Incidentally, the book with shiny staples and rust stains has almost certainly had the staples cleaned or replaced, so would get a conserved grade.

 

On 12/8/2023 at 8:10 AM, joeypost said:

This. 

 

On 12/8/2023 at 11:21 AM, Cnight said:

Oh dang! That’s a great catch!

Thanks a bunch, everyone! I'm not looking to resell these comics or anything. Just want to keep them for my own collection. They were typical raw, low-grade comics. But I was worried whether it may have been mold, which is a biohazard I don't want to keep around. I guess that means these three issues are safe to keep, then. Should I replace the staples on these issues, plus on any other issues that have rusted ones? Or what is the recommended approach?

[grendelbo]

On 12/8/2023 at 9:57 AM, stormflora said:

 

 

 

 

Thanks a bunch, everyone! I'm not looking to resell these comics or anything. Just want to keep them for my own collection. They were typical raw, low-grade comics. But I was worried whether it may have been mold, which is a biohazard I don't want to keep around. I guess that means these three issues are safe to keep, then. Should I replace the staples on these issues, plus on any other issues that have rusted ones? Or what is the recommended approach?

Probably let it be. Keep the books out of humidity as the rust will only get worse.

Also, don't knock mold until you try it. 

[stormflora]

On 12/8/2023 at 12:43 PM, grendelbo said:

Probably let it be. Keep the books out of humidity as the rust will only get worse.

I did some research online, and apparently rusty staples can eventually corrode the comic. Are you sure I shouldn't replace those staples? Or is it that any significant amount of damage would also need a significant amount of time to unfold, making it a non-issue for the most part? (This is more of a conservation question.)

I will avoid moisturizing/HOP pressing these rusted comics, unless it's possible to heat press away all of the moisture with multiple passes.

Edited December 8, 2023 by stormflora

[joeypost]

Gently using a brush with some stiffer bristles can remove a lot of the loose rust that accumulates in the paper and near the staple. While it won’t eliminate the rust, it will improve the look of the book, if all you care about is presentation. 

[AJD]

On 12/9/2023 at 4:47 AM, stormflora said:

I did some research online, and apparently rusty staples can eventually corrode the comic. Are you sure I shouldn't replace those staples? Or is it that any significant amount of damage would also need a significant amount of time to unfold, making it a non-issue for the most part? (This is more of a conservation question.)

I will avoid moisturizing/HOP pressing these rusted comics, unless it's possible to heat press away all of the moisture with multiple passes.

Ultimately the staples in comics will rust away to nothing - the only question is how long it will take. I know that collecting institutions often remove staples from items intended to be stored in perpetuity and replace them with sewn thread to obviate any possibility of paper damage in the future. But the comic market clearly frowns upon that, and for books kept in good storage conditions it shouldn't be an issue for the bulk of our collections. That said, I have replaced or cleaned staples that are very rusty because they have already caused some damage to the comic. It's a bit trickier than you might first think, so if you decide to do it, practice on some beaters first.

[Dick Pontoon]

I believe these *are* beaters. This is a group of low-grade, low-value Tom and Jerry comics IIRC from the OPs other threads and the photos in this one. $1-$3 bin books.

[Cnight]

On 12/8/2023 at 12:43 PM, grendelbo said:

Probably let it be. Keep the books out of humidity as the rust will only get worse.

Also, don't knock mold until you try it. 

Gotta love them McDonalds blueberry pancakes 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[stormflora]

On 12/8/2023 at 11:16 PM, AJD said:

Ultimately the staples in comics will rust away to nothing - the only question is how long it will take. I know that collecting institutions often remove staples from items intended to be stored in perpetuity and replace them with sewn thread to obviate any possibility of paper damage in the future. But the comic market clearly frowns upon that, and for books kept in good storage conditions it shouldn't be an issue for the bulk of our collections. That said, I have replaced or cleaned staples that are very rusty because they have already caused some damage to the comic. It's a bit trickier than you might first think, so if you decide to do it, practice on some beaters first.

Is it as simple as replacing the staple? Does that stop the rust from spreading?

On 12/9/2023 at 7:28 AM, Pontoon said:

I believe these *are* beaters. This is a group of low-grade, low-value Tom and Jerry comics IIRC from the OPs other threads and the photos in this one. $1-$3 bin books.

Yep, they're not particularly expensive comics, although I wouldn't call them "beaters" in my eyes. Just low grade.

[VintageComics]

On 12/8/2023 at 3:20 AM, stormflora said:

I’ve seen this sort of thing in a few comic issues so far, to varying severity. The photos I’ve attached are of one single issue, on multiple pages. It’s the most conservative example I have. 
 

In the other issues, they are larger in diameter or have blotched into other areas as well. But all the same colour and seem to come from the nail. 
 

I don’t smell anything in particular but I am nonetheless concerned. 

This isn't mold, technically. Everyone has already identified it as rust migration.

Mold, from what I've seen happens on flat areas where the pages contact each other over larger surfaces and the pages can't breathe from being stacked and it looks like black splotching that spreads (with no rust to spread). 

Typically, mold doesn't happen in areas where the paper can breathe, like around the staples, where the paper has the ability to breathe due to the gap along the length of the spine. 

[VintageComics]

On 12/8/2023 at 11:16 PM, AJD said:

On 12/8/2023 at 12:47 PM, stormflora said:

I did some research online, and apparently rusty staples can eventually corrode the comic. Are you sure I shouldn't replace those staples? Or is it that any significant amount of damage would also need a significant amount of time to unfold, making it a non-issue for the most part? (This is more of a conservation question.)

I will avoid moisturizing/HOP pressing these rusted comics, unless it's possible to heat press away all of the moisture with multiple passes.

Ultimately the staples in comics will rust away to nothing - the only question is how long it will take. I know that collecting institutions often remove staples from items intended to be stored in perpetuity and replace them with sewn thread to obviate any possibility of paper damage in the future. But the comic market clearly frowns upon that, and for books kept in good storage conditions it shouldn't be an issue for the bulk of our collections. That said, I have replaced or cleaned staples that are very rusty because they have already caused some damage to the comic. It's a bit trickier than you might first think, so if you decide to do it, practice on some beaters first.

I started a thread about 15 years ago discussing conservation techniques, specifically deacidifying comics due to the inherent nature of paper to acidify. 

We also discussed replacing staples, the rationale being that eventually you're going to HAVE to. 

There was a lot of pushback against it. 

The hobby is still relatively young. Let's face it, 80 years is nothing compared coins which have been around 1000s of years, and people were very resistant to the ideas, but eventually they will have to catch on. 

Because the hobby is young and most collector's books are stored reasonably well, in our lifetimes it's probably something not to worry about but eventually people's mindsets will need to change to adapt to the fact that time is undefeated. 

[stormflora]

On 12/9/2023 at 11:25 AM, VintageComics said:

I started a thread about 15 years ago discussing conservation techniques, specifically deacidifying comics due to the inherent nature of paper to acidify. 

We also discussed replacing staples, the rationale being that eventually you're going to HAVE to. 

There was a lot of pushback against it. 

The hobby is still relatively young. Let's face it, 80 years is nothing compared coins which have been around 1000s of years, and people were very resistant to the ideas, but eventually they will have to catch on. 

Because the hobby is young and most collector's books are stored reasonably well, in our lifetimes it's probably something not to worry about but eventually people's mindsets will need to change to adapt to the fact that time is undefeated. 

Yeah, the purist mindset. Some people want their comics unadulterated (even though they're willing to accept the double-standard of having drawings/writing or rookie/amateur repairs done on old comics).

As time passes and these comics turn 100, 200, 300+ years old, people are gonna be happy of their very existence, regardless of condition. We've seen this from books circa pre-1900 that are already breaking down in various ways, and museums/libraries/etc. trying to conserve them however possible.

I've made the decision to replace bad staples for my own collection. The question is, does replacing it stop the rust (already on the paper) from spreading?

Edited December 9, 2023 by stormflora

[VintageComics]

On 12/9/2023 at 3:45 PM, stormflora said:

Yeah, the purist mindset. Some people want their comics unadulterated (even though they're willing to accept the double-standard of having drawings/writing or rookie/amateur repairs done on old comics).

As time passes and these comics turn 100, 200, 300+ years old, people are gonna be happy of their very existence, regardless of condition. We've seen this from books circa pre-1900 that are already breaking down in various ways, and museums/libraries/etc. trying to conserve them however possible.

I've made the decision to replace bad staples for my own collection. The question is, does replacing it stop the rust (already on the paper) from spreading?

It will slow it down for sure, because you stop further migration. 

I can't answer whether it stops it definitively without any other treatments.

Keeping the books stored in a decent environment, which most likely do anyway, is probably going to negate the growth to the point where it's almost negligible. 

[Yorick]

On 12/9/2023 at 12:45 PM, stormflora said:

The question is, does replacing it stop the rust (already on the paper) from spreading?

Staples, as they degrade, flake metal off like tiny grains.  Those need to be brushed off the paper, or if they've become embedded into the paper, need to be extracted.  I believe that once the metal has been absorbed by the paper, you'd need to treat that specific spot (somehow).  Rusty staples should be pulled at the earliest opportunity (my opinion).  The metal can bond with the paper as it's left alone and becomes more difficult to take out later without removing more paper.

On this scan, you can see how much paper was lost to the bonded metal: