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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

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Axelrod

Axelrod

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I do think CGC kind of owes it to the community to disclose all the books that this particular submitter sent in over whatever period of time we are talking about.  And then maybe offer a "free" service to "check" the validity of the books inside the cases. Not the number grade, per se, since that's so subjective anyway.  But for things like restoration/value stamps, etc.  

There's no way they will be compensating people for improperly labeled books though.  

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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On 12/21/2023 at 2:19 PM, skybolt said:

Good points. The one thing I can think of is the seller trying to form a relationship with a CGC staffer and going through them directly for these type of issues. What I mean, is that let's say the ASM #252 guy called CGC customer service and acted extremely upset about CGC not giving him the Mark Jeweler designation to the point where he won't submit books anymore. The CGC staffer tells this guy not to worry, and to send the book directly to them to take care of. Now this guy has a point of contact who can streamline the situation for him when he has a similar "error" occur. If he only has to convince that one staffer that CGC keeps screwing up, then he's guaranteed to get the Mark Jeweler designation every time.

This would be REALLY difficult to do on a repeated basis. Maybe on a one-off submission, someone might say something like "oops, got these out late, can you handle them" but to repeatedly get favors?

No way. I have a hard time seeing it. 

CGC is too large to do little things like this for one person, especially without raising red flags. 

Your box shows up with literally 1000's of other boxes per day, get opened up by a receiving crew, get sorted through another crew, and off to the proper department to get dealt with by other various crews. 

Getting insider treatment on a regular basis is next to impossible in a factory the size of CGC. Far too complex. 

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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On 12/21/2023 at 2:28 PM, WestcoastDAVEngers said:

You salty, my man

Nah, just teasing. Fanboy jokes are the bomb around here! :D

I'm a lifelong fanboy so I can tease my own kind. 

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DoctorWyoming1

DoctorWyoming1

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On 12/21/2023 at 1:33 PM, Axelrod said:

I do think CGC kind of owes it to the community to disclose all the books that this particular submitter sent in over whatever period of time we are talking about.  And then maybe offer a "free" service to "check" the validity of the books inside the cases. Not the number grade, per se, since that's so subjective anyway.  But for things like restoration/value stamps, etc.  

There's no way they will be compensating people for improperly labeled books though.  

I do wonder what they are doing right now and to what level they see this as a concern. They of course have the rest of the list of books this person submitted... unless this person was clever enough to submit under multiple names and addresses. 

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D Stuart

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On 12/21/2023 at 1:26 PM, VintageComics said:

Can you summarize the video? I'm kind of tired of watching a bunch of fanboys lathering each other up while spreading 10 mins of information into 2 hours. lol

If this guy was REHOLDERING 1000's of books, that would be an obvious flag so I'd like to see some proof of this rather than just guess like this. 

You're right... 41 pages of thread > than a 10:24 video. 

:facepalm:

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skybolt

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On 12/21/2023 at 1:41 PM, DoctorWyoming1 said:

I do wonder what they are doing right now and to what level they see this as a concern. They of course have the rest of the list of books this person submitted... unless this person was clever enough to submit under multiple names and addresses. 

They will never release that list, just like they didn't in the Jason Ewert situation many years ago. The floodgates would open if that ever happens. They'll take the approach that if there is no significant proof that 95% of the books this guy submitted were swapped, then these books in question are not tainted.

Edited by skybolt
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Axelrod

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On 12/21/2023 at 2:46 PM, mephistopheles said:

If not, they will get hit with a flurry of lawsuits including class actions, and based on what we can surmise, they will most likely lose.

I do not think they will (get hit with a flurry of lawsuits, that is)

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DoctorWyoming1

DoctorWyoming1

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On 12/21/2023 at 1:46 PM, skybolt said:

They will never release that list, just like they didn't in the Jason Ewert situation many years ago. The floodgates would open if that ever happens. They'll take the approach that if there is no significant proof that 95% of the books this guy submitted were swapped, then books in question are not tainted.

A guy who trimmed books? I think his list of submissions did get out, although I suppose not officially from CGC.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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On 12/21/2023 at 2:49 PM, DoctorWyoming1 said:
On 12/21/2023 at 2:46 PM, skybolt said:

They will never release that list, just like they didn't in the Jason Ewert situation many years ago. The floodgates would open if that ever happens. They'll take the approach that if there is no significant proof that 95% of the books this guy submitted were swapped, then books in question are not tainted.

A guy who trimmed books? I think his list of submissions did get out, although I suppose not officially from CGC.

CGC released a list of serial numbers on these forums and asked people with books within those numbers to send them in for inspection to verify them. 

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DoctorWyoming1

DoctorWyoming1

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On 12/21/2023 at 1:53 PM, VintageComics said:

CGC released a list of serial numbers on these forums and asked people with books within those numbers to send them in for inspection to verify them. 

Thank you. Then there is a history of them releasing the list of books. Was over 1000 books for that debacle IIRC

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

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On 12/22/2023 at 2:49 AM, ThothAmon said:

His sales history on eBay shows it’s not just hyperbole.  As far as I’m concerned the sales are all worthy of inquiry. Here’s just the first few. 

Yeah. I can't imagine this is just a 3 book job that got caught before it got any bigger. It's really pretty worrisome how big it could be...

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skybolt

skybolt

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On 12/21/2023 at 1:49 PM, DoctorWyoming1 said:

A guy who trimmed books? I think his list of submissions did get out, although I suppose not officially from CGC.

That is correct. Unfortunately, in this situation it'll be tougher since this guy was re-holdering one book at a time. It's not the same as Ewert where you could track 25 books submitted at the same time just by the serial number of one book.

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ADAMANTIUM

ADAMANTIUM

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On 12/21/2023 at 1:49 PM, ThothAmon said:

His sales history on eBay shows it’s not just hyperbole.  As far as I’m concerned the sales are all worthy of inquiry. Here’s just the first few. 
 

IMG_0630.png

IMG_0631.png

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Conversely or by and by...

Look up the cert numbers corresponding to those individual cert numbers in the verification tool, from the base number of ########01 all the way to ########25...

And you can see all the books in each submission to question them. Alternatively to also looking up the pics to see inserted books, that given his most recent submission being ones with cgc scans on the verification tool then you also might see scans of those additional submissions in CGC scans from #01-25

Edited by ADAMANTIUM
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