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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,030 posts in this topic

THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
Posted
On 12/30/2023 at 12:51 PM, Matt1982 said:

CGC will fix the case, use it going forward, and offer people “discounts” to confirm grades and reholder into the new case. Slab owners will do it because books in old slabs will be worth a lot less than books “confirmed” in new slabs.

^^

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namisgr

namisgr

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/30/2023 at 12:59 PM, Steven Valdez said:

And complacency is yours.... it all equals out.

We'll see.  Having been here and active in the hobby through the Jason Ewert microtrimming scandal, at least I've got a bit of prior history on my side.

Besides, so far there's nothing that's been revealed in this thread to support the notion that there are thousands upon thousands of tampered slabs in the wild.  True that if I owned a high grade late bronze or copper ASM, X-Men or MJI book and it's in the newest holder, then I'd at the least have to take a magnifying glass to the bottom edge, while hoping it does not show up on the perpetrator submission list that CGC will soon release.

Perhaps the story will change over time, and additional perpetrators identified.  But perhaps not.

Edited by namisgr
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sledgehammer

sledgehammer

Posted
Posted
On 12/30/2023 at 10:47 AM, MatterEaterLad said:
On 12/30/2023 at 8:38 AM, sledgehammer said:

It took some time, but I finally spotted what is in my mind, an absolute connection between a major submitter and the two names that I believe are involved with the various ebay seller IDs.

Is this major submitter a dealer?

At this point, I just wanted to document that a very reasonable connection to that submitter can be made.

In my mind, it's a 100% fair connection to infer. This isn't some low level goof.

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namisgr

namisgr

Posted
Posted
On 12/30/2023 at 1:07 PM, Steven Valdez said:

Does CGC have the skilled workforce to deal with the tsunami of regrading/reholdering orders that may start flooding in (depending on what damage-control measures they decide on)?

With certification numbers in hand tied to the perpetrator, why would people who have books not on the list flood CGC with regrading and reholdering work?

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thehumantorch

thehumantorch

Posted
Posted
On 12/30/2023 at 2:56 AM, BrashL said:

1000x this.  No one that actually likes this hobby wants to see CGC fail. That said there’s a real problem here that CGC has to solve. Once they release the new case (which is non-negotiable at this point given the bad PR around it specifically) and new process I’ll be happy to send my valuable slabs in to be updated.  The stuff that’s not worth scamming will be just fine in the older ones.  People will be pissed for a little while but if the new case is an upgrade they’d have likely done it anyway.  

I'll disagree.  There are many, passionate, old school collectors who believe comics are meant to be read and would love CGC to fail.  One of the GA Facebook groups I belong to has many members who hate grading companies and don't own any graded books.  One of those guys posts 5 to 10  raw high grade golden age books each day and has done so for years.  And he seems to have everything and his collection has to be worth millions and millions.

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Stefan_W

Stefan_W

Posted
Posted
On 12/30/2023 at 1:13 PM, thehumantorch said:

I'll disagree.  There are many, passionate, old school collectors who believe comics are meant to be read and would love CGC to fail.  One of the GA Facebook groups I belong to has many members who hate grading companies and don't own any graded books.  One of those guys posts 5 to 10  raw high grade golden age books each day and has done so for years.  And he seems to have everything and his collection has to be worth millions and millions.

You are right, those guys are out there.

Having dealt in person with that type of old school guy who absolutely, positively, does not want to have a grading company involved when selling their old books - I would never buy a book from someone like that. Ever. Not that everyone is the same, but your odds of getting a fraudulent graded book are far less than the chances of getting a raw book with unidentified resto, unrealistic grading, etc. This type of thing is exactly why grading company came around to begin with, and why they are a big part of the hobby today.

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onlyweaknesskryptonite

onlyweaknesskryptonite

Posted
Posted (edited)

While reading several of the posts the last page I kept hearing this in my head.

 

Edited by onlyweaknesskryptonite
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Iconic1s

Iconic1s

Posted
Posted
On 12/30/2023 at 8:38 AM, sledgehammer said:

It took some time, but I finally spotted what is in my mind, an absolute connection between a major submitter and the two names that I believe are involved with the various ebay seller IDs.

Another boardie and I have been bouncing things back and forth for many days.  @Heronext

I've made a video and took photos, of the wife of this submitter's facebook page. Just in case it is made private later.

That facebook page shows a comment from someone named Bree.

The search that I made much earlier for that name, shows someone that has lived in 3 cities, all relevant to this, including Kew Gardens NY

That search shows one of the people connected to that name, as having a name that contains the letters ZANE, which is part of the ebay ID Zaneglor..

An online search of that man, shows a woman in his family, with a name that contains GLOR.  In AZ. He also lived in Kew Gardens.

An online google search of his name, shows at one point, a comment made on facebook by his name, and right next to it, shows a comment by that same BREE name.

On the submitter's wife's facebook page, a friend of hers and her submitter husband, that BREE name, says "thanks for inviting us!"

I'm not going to call out that major submitter here, and ask for a response. It's completely feasible that he is not involved

I don't know if this info would be helpful to CGC, or not. I think it would be appropriate to ask for clarification on this, from the submitter.

@CGC Mike

 

Whoa!!  Man, if there is a connection to a major submitter that’s just crazy!  This might explain some of the weird grade dates, etc. and what looks like potential hookups.

If true, this would probably be the best outcome… gives CGC someone to focus on, and also potentially contains the damage to this one guy (with his accomplices) running the scam.

This was already interesting but this kicks up the intrigue a couple notches… until now I imagined the loser toiling away in his basement/garage alone breaking into slabs… now if it’s an actual known big-time submitter pumping books back through CGC and then using people close to him to sell the books then that’s bonkers!

This guy is the lowest of the lows if true (even lower than we already thought)!!  He scams a company that trusted him (a normal submitter wouldn’t have been given the leeway a big one was, maybe) and then pulled people close to him in his life into his greed and turned them into criminals too!  Not to mention betraying every single person that bought a scammed book, and casting doubt over an entire hobby!  Crazy stuff if true!!

 

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
Posted
On 12/30/2023 at 1:32 PM, Iconic1s said:

Whoa!!  Man, if there is a connection to a major submitter that’s just crazy!  This might explain some of the weird grade dates, etc. and what looks like potential hookups.

If true, this would probably be the best outcome… gives CGC someone to focus on, and also potentially contains the damage to this one guy (with his accomplices) running the scam.

This was already interesting but this kicks up the intrigue a couple notches… until now I imagined the loser toiling away in his basement/garage alone breaking into slabs… now if it’s an actual known big-time submitter pumping books back through CGC and then using people close to him to sell the books then that’s bonkers!

This guy is the lowest of the lows if true (even lower than we already thought)!!  He scams a company that trusted him (a normal submitter wouldn’t have been given the leeway a big one was, maybe) and then pulled people close to him in his life into his greed and turned them into criminals too!  Not to mention betraying every single person that bought a scammed book, and casting doubt over an entire hobby!  Crazy stuff if true!!

 

What defines a “major submitter”?

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Iconic1s

Iconic1s

Posted
Posted
On 12/30/2023 at 12:37 PM, Comics said:

I have been away since page 100, but wonder if anyone saw this? https://www.instagram.com/p/CvxqEyZJGxn/

Patch replaced in UD Cup rookie card...

I honestly don’t understand what use the authentic patch is once it’s removed though.  How would that even be authenticated at that point?

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drotto

drotto

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

On 12/30/2023 at 1:50 PM, Iconic1s said:

I’m guessing someone that when their books are received by CGC, that they know who they belong to.

Or, someone known throughout the hobby (shrug)

In theory CGC knows the originally submitter for every book ever graded. Granted, that garentees nothing once that book has left that original persons hands, if it was sold through non tracked channels.

Edited by drotto
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