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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,030 posts in this topic

THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 10:53 AM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Scammer.

" I have decided that I do not like the look of that  last custom label and would like to update to the newest one. ( X 200)"

If we were to look closely at his overall submissions, it might seem odd that the scammer never orders custom labels for his raw submissions.

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onlyweaknesskryptonite

onlyweaknesskryptonite

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 9:56 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

If we were to look closely at his overall submissions, it might seem odd that the scammer never orders custom labels for his raw submissions.

At least he was trying to avoid detection. Using a mix of raw submissions, SS , reholder, and custom label requests.  

 

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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

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Posted (edited)
On 1/5/2024 at 8:31 AM, drotto said:

I also think the AF15 ss is the most likely to be legitimate on the list.  The only reason it is on the list was the reholder for the costum label. To me the question is was that done for the scammer's PC and enjoyment and/or to cover their tracks. Hey CGC I do not only reholder ASM 300's.

The guy is probably a collector and has his own collection - selling counterfeits to pay for legitimates seems like a common practice for someone looking to screw people. It just gets bigger from there.

And, if he's got above-average knowledge of CGC slabs and is a collector - he's probably here on the Boards somewhere. Lurking...

Edited by Dr. Balls
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namisgr

namisgr

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On 1/5/2024 at 10:52 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Is there any evidence that the scammer was selling swapped books that didn’t first go to CGC for a reholder?

A different way to phrase the question: is there proof the scammer did not sell swapped books that didn't first go to CGC for reholder?  To me, that's what the collecting community needs to know, and until such time as it is answered each and every CGC submission by the perpetrator that's been sold or offered for sale has to be viewed with suspicion.

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pdags

pdags

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Posted (edited)
On 1/5/2024 at 11:04 AM, Dr. Balls said:

The guy is probably a collector and has his own collection

Yeah.  It wouldn't surprise me if the smaller quantity books Briva3 swapped were him upgrading his personal collection.  Say he had a Daredevil #1 in a 6.5 and a nice 7.0 shows up on auction.  It would be an easy buy, swap, reholder, and sell.

He could've done this with the AF15, but that would be pretty nuanced and an amazing sell to pull off.

Edited by pdags
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EastEnd1

EastEnd1

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Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 10:52 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Is there any evidence that the scammer was selling swapped books that didn’t first go to CGC for a reholder?

We really don't know what the scammer actually did... CGC has confirmed very little other than admitting that he tampered with holders, it got thru their process, and providing a list of doctored books who's qualification for the list isn't defined.  What we know for certain is that the scammer swapped books... whether the holders had identifiable damage or not, no answer still.  And we have a chemist that demonstrated in pretty quick fashion that the current holders can be opened and resealed without obvious damage.  That makes me nervous that the scammer may have been able to do the same... and without any scruples about ripping people off.  So yes, I think every graded book he's touched should be on the list.

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pdags

pdags

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/5/2024 at 11:10 AM, namisgr said:

is there proof the scammer did not sell swapped books that didn't first go to CGC for reholder?

I agree on this.  It would be incredibly difficult to prove if he was successfully swapping books without need for a reholder.  If Briva3 had some intelligence and didn't mix those book sells with the re-holdered ones, it would be very hard to find.

Edited by pdags
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BuscemasAvengers

BuscemasAvengers

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On 1/5/2024 at 11:01 AM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

This has me wondering.  What single book has CGC reholdered more than any other? How many times have some single books been reholdered? What are the numbers for the top 10? 

In light of this, that is an excellent question.

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pdags

pdags

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On 1/5/2024 at 8:26 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Isn’t it just a list of all the reholders that Briva3 submitted?

Shrug, I didn't verify that and if someone else did confirm it, I missed it.

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wiparker824

wiparker824

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 9:01 AM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

This has me wondering.  What single book has CGC reholdered more than any other? How many times have some single books been reholdered? What are the numbers for the top 10? 

I’d be shocked if 9.8 ASM 194 isn’t number one on the list of the top 10 seeing as this person had over 10% of the census of that book in that grade on this list alone 

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drotto

drotto

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On 1/5/2024 at 11:29 AM, topcat54 said:

So if you know where the SS books are would you let the person know about the list CGC put out or would you pm cgcmike? :whistle:

I would tell the person, but I would follow up to see if they did it, and if I got any funny vibe i would report it to CGC through one of the various channels they have provided. That is a tough call. 

 

Yes, this person is likely very knowledgeable about comics and CGC. They know exactly what books this would work with and which would have a good ROI. They have also displayed good knowledge of how CGC works, and even a disturbing level of knowledge about where the internal weaknesses are. They are 100% aware of this thread, and I would not be surprised to find they have posted in it. 

 

I am not sure this is an inside job (I do not think it is in the technical sense), but rather a dealer that has a good long standing relationship with CGC (my theory, I have no proof).  I have seen first hand how certain creators and dealers get preferential treatment at CGC.  You think when artists or dealers that do those signed variant cover slabs, they bring a CGC witness in to verify the signatures every time? I doubt it. Or when people have slabs available the day an issue releases, or very soon after, no average submitter would be able to do that, or do that in a cost effective manor. They have a good relationship and CGC just excepts their submissions based on that trusted relationship, and sometimes helps things along.  It is just the way of the world. 

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