ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 2/19/2024 at 5:00 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Just a guess but right now is probably a good time to submit  

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/19/2024 at 3:19 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

That is my point. They charge you to review.  If it was missing the MVS they then call you (if you are lucky ) and give the option of grade as is or send back as is. Either way you are out not only grade fees , but also the book that you thought you had purchased based on the grading they originally provided.  

Again in this scenario the CGC book is not safer.

Also to make it clear I am not going to be buying either. 

If I send them a HULK #181 from an tamper free case that was graded in 2010 yes they would absolutely cover you if the MVS stamp was missing or a page missing upon review.   Major mistakes by them will always be fixed.  That 2 week window for books just back from CGC is to cut down on the people for just breaks in cases, and cut down on the newton rings OCDer's.  If CGC see's a book on eBay that was slabbed upside down in the year 2005 they would absolutely take that book back to fix it for free. 

Edited February 19 by NewWorldOrder

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 2/19/2024 at 5:27 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

If I send them a HULK #181 from an tamper free case that was graded in 2010 yes they would absolutely cover you if the MVS stamp was missing or a page missing.   Major mistakes by them will always be fixed.  That 2 week window for books just back from CGC is to cut down on the people for just breaks in cases.  If CGC see's a book on eBay that was slabbed upside down in the year 2005 they would absolutely want that book back to fix it. 

We are both assuming here.

As anyone who has been paid for this type of situation CGC would make them sign an NDA for that compensation. 

Those that haven't , usually post craziness here and no one believes them. 

Either way I guess we will never really know.

I just know for my  CGC is not the safer bet right now with what they have shown over the last couple years.  

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/19/2024 at 3:32 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

We are both assuming here.

As anyone who has been paid for this type of situation CGC would make them sign an NDA for that compensation. 

Those that haven't , usually post craziness here and no one believes them. 

Either way I guess we will never really know.

I just know for my  CGC is not the safer bet right now with what they have shown over the last couple years.  

Between them and the other grading company or buying CGC vs buying raw?

I am not assuming though, I know the answers

Over the years I have def had my share of "are you kidding" me situations from CGC.  Anyone who submits regularly to CGC will always have a some problems over the many years. I just dont come here to post and rant/rave about it.  After I scream and throw the slab against the wall I just email them and work it out.  So far I have been taken care of every single time, never left holding the bag.   I just take my credit and move on with my life.  However, of course I understand for many a personal book mishap is emotionally more draining even when you are made whole versus books that are just resell submissions. 

[comicjel]

On 2/19/2024 at 5:37 PM, shadroch said:

If I buy a raw 181  on ebay and it is missing the MVS, I have zero fear of losing my money.  If I buy a CGC 181, there is a greater than zero chance it is missing the MVS. 

 

Let's say Mrs. Schroder buys a CGC comic off ebay.  The book has a blue label which indicates the MVS is still intact. But is it? do we know for certain?  We don't know until we open the slab. Until then, the comic might have it or might not have it. 

Schroders comic exists in one of two states, and until it is opened, one can not know. 

Here is what I know-  Without examining the book, I can no longer be certain the MVS is there, and I don't feel comfortable selling a book I can't vouch for, so I can't in good conscious sell a product I don't have faith in.  As I'd planned on supplementing my retirement income selling slabs on MCS, this has been more than an inconvenience.   For now, I'm buying and selling raw books.

I hear you, but there are so many more variables to consider.

Color touch, trimming, stains, replaced staples, replaced wraps, pressing damage - these are hard for even a seasoned collector to always catch when buying a raw book.

Others that are hard to assess the effect to the grade... foxing, dust shadows, small chips, oxidation, etc.

If you only buy raw books because of your concern about a missing MVS in a universal holder, you are opening yourself up to a bunch of other things that you may miss and be burned by if the comic is graded later. 

I would bet that there are many more raw Hulk 181s with replaced wraps than there are universal 181s with missing MVSs.

 

[shadroch]

On 2/19/2024 at 3:44 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I mean sure, I mean one could say how do I know all the pages of my AF 15 are really there? Does the Cover match the interior pages? Are the Pages really White Pages? etc etc

Your point is the trust has been broken in your eyes, I get that.  I am saying the vast majority of Hulk #181's in Universal labels are just that perfectly fine.  I cracked out probably 8 in my lifetime.  All the MVS were there.   A person is running more of risk buying a "raw" Hulk #181 than buying one already graded on eBay.

No, they aren't. They can inspect the book and return it if the MVS is missing. If I bought 100 or a thousand CGC books, there is still a chance it is missing.  

If you sell me a CGC 181, and I sell it to someone who pops it two years from now, and it's incomplete, would you refund me my purchase price two years from now? Therefore, I stand behind my sales and can't sell a product that might come back and bite my azz years from now. 

CGC was always about trusting that the people involved were honest and competent.   If you think that is still true, keep using  them.   I did okay before CGC came along and will make some adjustments and be fine. 

[comicjel]

On 2/19/2024 at 6:54 PM, shadroch said:

No, they aren't. They can inspect the book and return it if the MVS is missing. If I bought 100 or a thousand CGC books, there is still a chance it is missing.  

If you sell me a CGC 181, and I sell it to someone who pops it two years from now, and it's incomplete, would you refund me my purchase price two years from now? Therefore, I stand behind my sales and can't sell a product that might come back and bite my azz years from now. 

CGC was always about trusting that the people involved were honest and competent.   If you think that is still true, keep using  them.   I did okay before CGC came along and will make some adjustments and be fine. 

Don't you run the exact same risk by buying a raw book that looks to be in NM, selling it to someone, and they get it graded and find out it is color touched?  Wouldn't they still want their money back from you?

All that said... you have any raw high grade ASMs #1 - #50 for sale??  

Edited February 20 by comicjel

[sledgehammer]

On 2/19/2024 at 5:27 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

If I send them a HULK #181 from an tamper free case that was graded in 2010 yes they would absolutely cover you if the MVS stamp was missing or a page missing upon review.   Major mistakes by them will always be fixed.  That 2 week window for books just back from CGC is to cut down on the people for just breaks in cases, and cut down on the newton rings OCDer's.  If CGC see's a book on eBay that was slabbed upside down in the year 2005 they would absolutely take that book back to fix it for free. 

Ahhhhhh, So that's the secret.

I don't want to call CGC, and tell them that the scammer swapped out a lower grade book, into a higher label slab, but refund me anyway, even though it's not on the list. Their lawyer has told us within the last week, that they can't possibly reimburse people in that case. they are only responsible for re holders.

What I want to do is contact them, and tell them that they made a major mistake 14 years ago, and I would like to be reimbursed for it.

Got it.

 

Edited February 20 by sledgehammer

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/19/2024 at 3:54 PM, shadroch said:

No, they aren't. They can inspect the book and return it if the MVS is missing. If I bought 100 or a thousand CGC books, there is still a chance it is missing.  

If you sell me a CGC 181, and I sell it to someone who pops it two years from now, and it's incomplete, would you refund me my purchase price two years from now? Therefore, I stand behind my sales and can't sell a product that might come back and bite my azz years from now. 

CGC was always about trusting that the people involved were honest and competent.   If you think that is still true, keep using  them.   I did okay before CGC came along and will make some adjustments and be fine. 

Well yeah man there is always chance.  There are def restored books sitting in blue labels, mistakes can happen.  I mean this is 2003 stuff everyone has have talked about to death on the CGC boards about. I already answered the MVS missing in a slab a couple posts above so no need to type it again if CGC finds it missing from a tamper free case graded in any year ever or any major mistake.

That is a loaded question.  Short answer NO.  Why would anyone trust someone that says its missing without any proof?  How would we both know that buyer isnt giving us the switch out and trying to commit fraud against us?

So you are telling me and the boards if we each had 100K.

nWo buys 100K worth of CGC Blue Label Hulk #181's on eBay from various sellers- cracks them all out for grading resubmission's

shadroch buys 100K worth of "raw" Hulk #181's on eBay from various sellers- submits then Raw to CGC for grading

That you (Shadroch) will have LESS RISK than me for holding onto the value of each of our 100K? Come on now.  

I mean you have to obviously do what you think is best of course.  Since the average seller on most selling platforms can't grade I think you know my safe bet answer.

 

[sledgehammer]

I would love to see, what a true auction for a CGC 9.4, blue label, Incredible Hulk 181, would go for.

Right now.

there's an auction for one going on, on comic link. Just keep in mind that I said true.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/19/2024 at 4:23 PM, sledgehammer said:

I would love to see, what a true auction for a CGC 9.4, blue label, Incredible Hulk 181, would go for.

Right now.

there's an auction for one going on, on comic link. Just keep in mind that I said true.

What did you say was true?

Edited February 20 by NewWorldOrder

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/19/2024 at 2:42 PM, sledgehammer said:

you sold me.

can you share a link, to your most recent listings?

Again my listing or his?   Everyone know about that guy that sells raw books shady on eBay based out of Montrose, California

I do not understand what you mean here.

[BrashL]

On 2/19/2024 at 6:18 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Well yeah man there is always chance.  There are def restored books sitting in blue labels, mistakes can happen.  I mean this is 2003 stuff everyone has have talked about to death on the CGC boards about. I already answered the MVS missing in a slab a couple posts above so no need to type it again if CGC finds it missing from a tamper free case graded in any year ever or any major mistake.

@CGC Mike Can you confirm this? Your last statement implied that only books on the list of 350 could be inspected and reimbursed. If we find a book outside that list that is not what it says on the label will CGC reimburse us?  I believe Bry’s Comics just posted an example on his YouTube channel. Can he reach out and be made whole?

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/19/2024 at 4:29 PM, BrashL said:

@CGC Mike Can you confirm this? Your last statement implied that only books on the list of 350 could be inspected and reimbursed. If we find a book outside that list that is not what it says on the label will CGC reimburse us?  I believe Bry’s Comics just posted an example on his YouTube channel. Can he reach out and be made whole?

what was Bry's situation?

Can you post the link.

 

[BrashL]

On 2/19/2024 at 6:32 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

what was Bry's situation?

Can you post the link.

 

It’s a few pages back, I don’t want to repost unless you can’t find it. 
 

He got a Teen titans Judas Contract issue that is marked as a 9.8 but more like an 8.0

Edited February 20 by BrashL

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/19/2024 at 4:36 PM, BrashL said:

It’s a few pages back, I don’t want to repost unless you can’t find it. 

I cant find it, please PM me the link?

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/19/2024 at 4:36 PM, BrashL said:

It’s a few pages back, I don’t want to repost unless you can’t find it. 
 

He got a Teen titans Judas Contract issue that is marked as a 9.8 but more like an 8.0

Okay this one.  So assuming the customer said that was their book with the same defects as they send the book in as right?  I didnt hear anything on the contrary to that.  

Its a CGC mis-grade for sure. 

The customer can send in the book under ME and they will re-grade the book for FREE.

It will comeback 8.0/8.5 to fix the mistake and the book will be in a corrected CGC 8.0 or 8.5 holder.

Edited February 20 by NewWorldOrder

[comicjel]

On 2/19/2024 at 7:23 PM, sledgehammer said:

I would love to see, what a true auction for a CGC 9.4, blue label, Incredible Hulk 181, would go for.

Right now.

there's an auction for one going on, on comic link. Just keep in mind that I said true.

If it had a custom label, MJI, looked to be an 8.5, and had a slightly damaged case with a tuft of cream colored carpet sticking out, it would prob sell for about 95% of the last 9.4... just wouldn't be one of us buying it! 

Edited February 20 by comicjel

[sledgehammer]

On 2/19/2024 at 6:59 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

So assuming the customer said that was their book with the same defects as they send the book in as right?  I didnt hear anything on the contrary to that.  

Its a CGC mis-grade for sure. 

Bad assumption, and he does say something contrary to that.

Otherwise, ....wait, not a CGC mis grade either.

Dammit, I thought you at least had the last one.

I tell you what, watch the video until he starts talking about the Vampirella 9.8.

Then, say to yourself, in this submission of 23 books, what are the odds that two of the books that were graded 9.8, had three different individual lines of grader notes, regarding damage to the book.

And one of them looks like a very fine minus.

 

[BrashL]

On 2/19/2024 at 6:59 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Okay this one.  So assuming the customer said that was their book with the same defects as they send the book in as right?  I didnt hear anything on the contrary to that.  

Its a CGC mis-grade for sure. 

The customer can send in the book under ME and they will re-grade the book for FREE.

It will comeback 8.0/8.5 to fix the mistake and the book will be in a corrected CGC 8.0 or 8.5 holder.

That’s a pretty big leap I think. An 8.0 labeled as a 9.8 is at least as likely to be a case swap. We know from the court filing and comicwiz’s with that there are plenty of the latter.