ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[Nick Furious]

On 2/23/2024 at 12:52 PM, Mr. Zipper said:

I assume the donor was slabbed and likely sold

I would guess that if it came back at same grade the scammer would hold onto it, at least for a while, for another potential swap.

[Nick Furious]

On 2/23/2024 at 10:47 AM, comicwiz said:

Daredevil 1 CGC 8.5 - UNLISTED  ⬇️

(NOTE: This shifts the timeline of tampering further back to Jan 15, 2018)

Over the past two weeks, I shared two UNLISTED books (FF 48 CGC 5.5 and ASM 300 CGC 9.8) and have continued compiling others. I continue to try to set aside time to work on this because of its significance, and would like to share the third UNLISTED today because I believe this is becoming even more important as events continue to unfold.

Applying the same details on the retrospective and current comparabiles analysis for books impacted by this "holder tampering." The purpose here is to use this unlisted book as an example of how one might arrive at a valuation suitable for redress and/or compensation.

While the serial number from the ComicVerify badge below is a sample, the data is live, and the screenshot takes you right to the sample appraisal and assessment, with notations, working links to diagrams, etc. Full disclosure, ComicVerify is an online appraisal service I began in March of 2022, along with an appraisal service called ToyVerify. It allowed me to streamline reports, and uses proprietary software I developed which helps accelerate the process of mining/discovery, recall, insight assement, as well as calculating comps using the desired valuation method, as well as offering real-time reporting, all accessible in a digital format (smartphone or on your computer).

Certification: 1202031002 (NOT ON THE LIST)

Daredevil (1964-1998) #1 CGC 8.5

Beginning first with the screenshot of the Cert for posterity:

Based on the assessment arrived at, replacement value would be the method of valuation best suited to handle the market fluctuations seen from the time the book was sold in January 15th, 2018, and the current day, where consumers are being made aware of an alleged incident involving "holder tampering."

Click screenshot below to visit the online appraisal for further details

==============

Additional notes for comparison, review, and posterity:

Sales history, this Daredevil 1 appears twice for sale, the order that follows is from the first appearance of this cert to the last:

Cert: 1202031002
Daredevil (1964-1998) #1 CGC 8.5

302012634340 | ebay | Seller: potatochipman |Cert: 1202031002 [7/19/2016] | $5,818

282813660478 | ebay | Seller: alleged seller | Cert: 1202031002 [1/28/2018] | $7,363

Since this was a reholder through CGC, I'm wondering why they wouldn't have caught it in their investigation and put it on the list.  

[sledgehammer]

On 2/23/2024 at 12:58 PM, Nick Furious said:

Since this was a reholder through CGC, I'm wondering why they wouldn't have caught it in their investigation and put it on the list.  

I think that it is a different inner well, with the same label.

[Nick Furious]

On 2/23/2024 at 1:10 PM, sledgehammer said:

I think that it is a different inner well, with the same label.

I was thinking that the sticker going from blue to silver indicated a holder change.  But that's probably on the inner well also.  

[sledgehammer]

On 2/23/2024 at 1:27 PM, Nick Furious said:

I was thinking that the sticker going from blue to silver indicated a holder change.  But that's probably on the inner well also.  

understood, sure. There's no way we can make a call yet, on whether it was a scammer that put that inner well in that holder, or it was CGC. Things need to become a lot more transparent for us to do that.

Edited February 23 by sledgehammer

[EastEnd1]

On 2/23/2024 at 2:30 PM, sledgehammer said:

understood, sure. There's no way we can make a call yet, on whether it was a scammer that put that inner well in that holder, or it was CGC. Things need to become a lot more transparent for us to do that.

CGC needs to explain this one.  If it wasn't a reholder situation, then the doomsday scenario we discussed early on of straight swaps has become more real... and with a pricey silver book to boot.

[sledgehammer]

The 5.5, fantastic four, number 48, that comicwiz found, also looked to have been the same label, with a different inner well. I don't think that that one was a third generation re-holder either.

So obviously, the questions for CGC, just continue to mount.

Edited February 23 by sledgehammer

[BrashL]

On 2/23/2024 at 1:50 PM, EastEnd1 said:

CGC needs to explain this one.  If it wasn't a reholder situation, then the doomsday scenario we discussed early on of straight swaps has become more real... and with a pricey silver book to boot.

Straight swaps were already confirmed by CGC in their lawsuit. 

[comicwiz]

.

 

Edited March 8 by comicwiz

[Tnexus]

Is the DD1 the first confirmed swap in a Gen2 case?

[comicwiz]

On 2/23/2024 at 1:52 PM, Mr. Zipper said:

Have you had any luck finding a donor book? In the case of DD #1, I assume the donor was slabbed and likely sold not that far in advance of when the switch appeared. Or is that a bad assumption?

I'm needing to circle back to these at a later time, it's quite the process to even find these. A far more extraordinary excercise to match to a donor. I was able to do it for some (Project Green to Blue). But that is the plan. Lots to still go through. 

[comicwiz]

On 2/23/2024 at 1:58 PM, Nick Furious said:

Since this was a reholder through CGC, I'm wondering why they wouldn't have caught it in their investigation and put it on the list.  

There are a lot of questions I too have. Like, as I was passing through books from this stretch between August 2018 to January 2018, there were a number of books on the impacted list. How did these UNLISTED ones get missed?

Edited February 23 by comicwiz

[comicjel]

On 2/23/2024 at 2:10 PM, sledgehammer said:

I think that it is a different inner well, with the same label.

If you look at the weld on the label (under the CGC Hologram) it is in a different spot between the two books - so I think that is a new label - which implies a reholder - but as you said in a different post, no way to really make the call yet.

[EastEnd1]

On 2/23/2024 at 3:18 PM, BrashL said:

Straight swaps were already confirmed by CGC in their lawsuit. 

True, they did admit to one from what I recall from reading the complaint, with little detail.  What comicwiz is finding though makes it potentially a lot more pervasive than what CGC disclosed.  And demonstrates that the straight swap activity reaches back to 2018 (so far) and includes silver keys.  That's a lot of interim years of potential straight swaps involving higher value books.

[comicjel]

On 2/23/2024 at 3:48 PM, EastEnd1 said:

True, they did admit to one from what I recall from reading the complaint, with little detail.  What comicwiz is finding though makes it potentially a lot more pervasive than what CGC disclosed.  And demonstrates that the straight swap activity reaches back to 2018 (so far) and includes silver keys.  That's a lot of interim years of potential straight swaps involving higher value books.

Comicwiz will correct me if I am wrong, but the 3 books he has displayed all may still have been reholdered - I do not think we can conclude that they have not been reholdered.

[EastEnd1]

On 2/23/2024 at 3:52 PM, comicjel said:

Comicwiz will correct me if I am wrong, but the 3 books he has displayed all may still have been reholdered - I do not think we can conclude that they have not been reholdered.

Ok, so potentially the mystery may still only be why these books are not on CGC's reholdered list if they were reholdered and submitted by the scammer.  Perhaps they were submitted to CGC by someone else?

[sledgehammer]

On 2/23/2024 at 2:58 PM, EastEnd1 said:

Ok, so potentially the mystery may still only be why these books are not on CGC's reholdered list if they were reholdered and submitted by the scammer.  Perhaps they were submitted to CGC by someone else?

maybe, but we keep seeing that white carpet background.

[comicjel]

On 2/23/2024 at 3:58 PM, EastEnd1 said:

Ok, so potentially the mystery may still only be why these books are not on CGC's reholdered list if they were reholdered and submitted by the scammer.  Perhaps they were submitted to CGC by someone else?

I do not like to mix in too much speculation when Comicwiz is so carful about keeping everything as objective as possible, but I believe the scammer could very well have been scamming through reholdering well before the holders that had the label in a separate section (or custom labels).  It just became easier when the case changed, and the custom labels gave him a better excuse for having more reholders done - but again, this is just my suspicion based on what I am seeing so far.

[comicwiz]

.

Edited March 8 by comicwiz

[EastEnd1]

On 2/23/2024 at 4:02 PM, sledgehammer said:

maybe, but we keep seeing that white carpet background.

That comic store also had photos with that white carpet background if I recall correctly...