Archie Original Art: Need Help Identifying Artists and Discussing Prices 0

[jick]

I just got a near complete issue of a 1971 Jughead Jokes comic.  As with Archie from this era, the artists are not credited or identified. So I'd like to ask some help in identifying these if possible.

I quite enjoy this particular issue because each page is already like a self-contained story so can be displayed or viewed individually.

  Also, Archie art seems to go for very reasonable nowadays. So it's not really an investment but just a purchase because I like it.  But now this has gotten me curious - are there Archie collectors here who believe there is upside in their low selling prices today?  Or will this just go the way of most newspaper strips from nearly 100 years ago that are vintage, enjoyable to look at, but mostly worthless as investment and value wise. 

 

[Mickey7]

Nice Archie pickups!  I would say pieces with Betty &/or Veronica, when drawn well, can go for pretty good money.  Other stuff with not much going on art wise can be quite cheap.  As far as artists go, to my untrained eye, "Prize Size" looks like Al Hartley.  "Still Life" looks like Dan Decarlo.  I'd have to look at some other pieces more closely.  Congrats on some cool additions!

[vodou]

Very nice find/buy! You got the entire book of originals?

[MAR1979]

Archie Art somewhat low demand and seemingly infinite supply.

Betty and Veronica especially if scantally clad or if double entandre are exceptions as they have much higher demand. However...

Thing is, most OA collectors are satisfied with one or two examples thus tempering demand.

For last two decades many OA collectors have taken short detours on the Archie path only to realize it was not the right way to go.

Archie art simply is not undervalued and except for select outliers is a bunch more difficult to sell or trade than Superhero art from the corresponding era.

[Dr. Balls]

I know very little about Archie stuff other than bikini pieces trump other pages by 2-3X at least. I would imagine complete stories make those pages a lot more sellable than if they were incomplete. From the looks of it, 'Still Life' is a great GGA story - that's a nice pickup!

[Readcomix]

GCD not much help other than confirming Prize Size is Hartley, and the Lil Jinx story is Joe Edwards, but that’s no surprise.

[jick]

On 1/5/2024 at 10:44 PM, Mickey7 said:

Nice Archie pickups!  I would say pieces with Betty &/or Veronica, when drawn well, can go for pretty good money.  Other stuff with not much going on art wise can be quite cheap.  As far as artists go, to my untrained eye, "Prize Size" looks like Al Hartley.  "Still Life" looks like Dan Decarlo.  I'd have to look at some other pieces more closely.  Congrats on some cool additions!

Thanks for this info, it will be very helpful though it only accounts for a small fraction of the book! Would you say "Spray Cans For Teens" is by Samm Schwartz?

On 1/5/2024 at 11:34 PM, vodou said:

Very nice find/buy! You got the entire book of originals?

It's not the entire book.  It lacks the cover and 4 interior pages, so it's only 28 pages.  It's still in transit to me.

On 1/6/2024 at 12:58 AM, MAR1979 said:

Archie Art somewhat low demand and seemingly infinite supply.

Betty and Veronica especially if scantally clad or if double entandre are exceptions as they have much higher demand. However...

Thing is, most OA collectors are satisfied with one or two examples thus tempering demand.

For last two decades many OA collectors have taken short detours on the Archie path only to realize it was not the right way to go.

Archie art simply is not undervalued and except for select outliers is a bunch more difficult to sell or trade than Superhero art from the corresponding era.

Thank you so much for this info.  This is also what I figured out.  My detour is not for investing though, it's really because I used to read Archie so it's nostalgia.  With having a near complete issue, this covers my itch - but if I were to move forward, maybe I'd be looking for a complete 5-6 page story and a nice cover example.  I'd say covers are cheap - going for less than $500 usually.

On 1/6/2024 at 1:32 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I know very little about Archie stuff other than bikini pieces trump other pages by 2-3X at least. I would imagine complete stories make those pages a lot more sellable than if they were incomplete. From the looks of it, 'Still Life' is a great GGA story - that's a nice pickup!

Yes, for some reason there is demand for bikini pages.  It's just a bonus that these pages have a few of them bikini pictures or sexy women.  It seems the artists really put efforts in bikinis and women's clothes as there is always great variation in designs and no two are the same from issue to issue.

To everyone, thanks for your replies.  I am looking forward to more attributions to the pages I just shared - and more insights on market trends for Archie original art.

[bkopman]

That is a great pickup. I'm a fan of Archie art and have spent some time trying to identify the various Archie artists. Here is my best guess at the artists from your book.

I agree with Mickey7 that Sun Fun is by Al Hartley

My best guess is that Serve Verve, both Dipsy Doodle pages, Snack Attack, Real Cool Kid, and Chap Trap are all Stan Goldberg. I think that Still Life is also Goldberg. I do see hints of Dan DeCarlo in the female character but not enough to make me think it's him.

You are right about Spray Can for Teens being by Samm Schwartz. It's definitely his work. He also drew Sun Fun and Vacation Elation.

I'm not sure about Hitch Switch or Jive Dive. It could be Goldberg. 

I'm also not sure about Borrow Sorry and Sleep Deep. 

I'll update a few of these on GDC. 

As for prices, I think it's a very interesting topic and not an easy one to summarize. Art prices tend to come down to:

• Vintage (pages from the 1940s are rare and tend to go for prices in the 4 figures and up). Pages from 50s and 60s will usually go for more than art from the 1970s etc.
• Artist Art from the more well-known artists including DeCarlo, Harry Lucey, Bob Montana, and Samm Schwartz is the most abundant and can fetch decent prices.
• Characters As MAR1979 said, art with Betty and Veronica will go for more than art without them and if they are in bikinis, then it will go for even more.
• Format  covers, pinups, and splashes will typically go for more than interior pages. Archie art is unique in that most stories are 5-6 pages in length and these stories are often for sale as a whole. 

Heritage recently had an all Archie auction and some of the prices were pretty decent. The cover to Madhouse 1 by Lucey went for $24,000 and more recently, two Bob Montana covers from the 1950s sold for $26,400 and $20,400 respectively. So some of the higher-end covers. Then there's the 5-page story with the first appearance of Sabrina that went for $114,000. That's a bit of a unique case though, of course.

Anyway, great pickup. I always enjoy chatting about Archie artists and art.

[jick]

On 1/7/2024 at 12:08 AM, bkopman said:

 

My best guess is that Serve Verve, both Dipsy Doodle pages, Snack Attack, Real Cool Kid, and Chap Trap are all Stan Goldberg. I think that Still Life is also Goldberg. ...

 

I'm not sure about Hitch Switch or Jive Dive. It could be Goldberg. 

 

 

Based on Wiki, Goldberg left Marvel in 69 and worked in DC for three years. Since this issue was 1971, it's possible that Goldberg did not work for Archie yet.

[bkopman]

On 1/6/2024 at 11:28 AM, jick said:

Based on Wiki, Goldberg left Marvel in 69 and worked in DC for three years. Since this issue was 1971, it's possible that Goldberg did not work for Archie yet.

Possible, although GCD does attribute some Archie work in 1971 to Goldberg. I know less about him than some of the other artists. I know he did a ton of work for Archie Comics in the 1970s.

[jick]

On 1/7/2024 at 12:43 AM, bkopman said:

Possible, although GCD does attribute some Archie work in 1971 to Goldberg. I know less about him than some of the other artists. I know he did a ton of work for Archie Comics in the 1970s.

Any chance the pieces you attribute to Goldberg to be DeCarlo? What are the distinguishing marks in their styles?

[Michael Browning]

On 1/6/2024 at 5:45 PM, jick said:

Any chance the pieces you attribute to Goldberg to be DeCarlo? What are the distinguishing marks in their styles?

I don't see any DeCarlo art in the pics at all.

[bkopman]

On 1/6/2024 at 5:45 PM, jick said:

Any chance the pieces you attribute to Goldberg to be DeCarlo? What are the distinguishing marks in their styles?

No, I don't think it's DeCarlo at all. While there are characteristics and distinguishing qualities between DeCarlo and Goldberg, I find it difficult to articulate them. For me, it comes down to being very familiar with DeCarlo's art enough to be pretty sure whether it's him or not. Something to keep in mind is that DeCarlo's art was considered to be the house style and from what I've read, Archie Comics asked other artists to draw like him, so it's not unusual for mistake Goldberg's work at the time compared to DeCarlo's. I've also read that people think that AL Hartley's work is similar to DeCarlo although I think they are quite different.

[jick]

On 1/8/2024 at 9:57 AM, bkopman said:

No, I don't think it's DeCarlo at all. While there are characteristics and distinguishing qualities between DeCarlo and Goldberg, I find it difficult to articulate them. For me, it comes down to being very familiar with DeCarlo's art enough to be pretty sure whether it's him or not. Something to keep in mind is that DeCarlo's art was considered to be the house style and from what I've read, Archie Comics asked other artists to draw like him, so it's not unusual for mistake Goldberg's work at the time compared to DeCarlo's. I've also read that people think that AL Hartley's work is similar to DeCarlo although I think they are quite different.

Thanks to all the replies.  Now I have done more research through original art in Heritage and their attributions.  Some are absolute because they are signed by the artist, or in the case of Al Hartley - it is from his estate.

This is what I have gathered so far:

Al Hartley: draws Jughead without bangs, and his crown facing down and near his eyebrows.  So I think all he drew is "Prize Size."

Dan DeCarlo: little details on ears, usually just as "S" or vertical "M" or "W"; Betty's side hair is usually feathered in horizontal lines going to her ear, while other artists draw that part as a single line.  It looks like he did not draw anything from this issue.

Samm Schwartz: line weight has less contrast/variation from thick/thin; hardly uses feathering techniques; Jughead's eyes are always closed and he draws it with one horizontal and one vertical line - unlike others who add a bit more definition.  I have him for "Sun & Fun," "Vacation Elation," and "Spray Cans For Teens."

Joe Edwards as the creator of Lil Jinx surely drew "Beware of Dog" and "Constructive Thinking."

There is an unknown artist whose style appears at least four times: "Dipsy Doodle (page 11)," "Chap Trap," "Still Life," "Borrow Sorrow," and "Deep Sleep."  His style is that Jughead has bangs drawn as a rectangle, and there is horizontal feathering of fine lines in this bangs and also in his side hair that drops to his sideburns.  Would anyone know who this artist may be?

As for Stan Goldberg, my searches came up dry with Golberg Archie art from this period (1960 to 1973) so I am not sure where he fits in here.

There is also another style similarity I can see in "Dipsy Doodles (page 44)," "Real Cool Kid" and "Snack Attack" where the artist draws a single strand of hair sticking out above the bangs below Jughead's crown.  But they could be different artists or inkers.

So that is the best I can come up with. 

[bkopman]

On 1/8/2024 at 8:34 PM, jick said:

Thanks to all the replies.  Now I have done more research through original art in Heritage and their attributions.  Some are absolute because they are signed by the artist, or in the case of Al Hartley - it is from his estate.

This is what I have gathered so far:

Al Hartley: draws Jughead without bangs, and his crown facing down and near his eyebrows.  So I think all he drew is "Prize Size."

Dan DeCarlo: little details on ears, usually just as "S" or vertical "M" or "W"; Betty's side hair is usually feathered in horizontal lines going to her ear, while other artists draw that part as a single line.  It looks like he did not draw anything from this issue.

Samm Schwartz: line weight has less contrast/variation from thick/thin; hardly uses feathering techniques; Jughead's eyes are always closed and he draws it with one horizontal and one vertical line - unlike others who add a bit more definition.  I have him for "Sun & Fun," "Vacation Elation," and "Spray Cans For Teens."

Joe Edwards as the creator of Lil Jinx surely drew "Beware of Dog" and "Constructive Thinking."

There is an unknown artist whose style appears at least four times: "Dipsy Doodle (page 11)," "Chap Trap," "Still Life," "Borrow Sorrow," and "Deep Sleep."  His style is that Jughead has bangs drawn as a rectangle, and there is horizontal feathering of fine lines in this bangs and also in his side hair that drops to his sideburns.  Would anyone know who this artist may be?

As for Stan Goldberg, my searches came up dry with Golberg Archie art from this period (1960 to 1973) so I am not sure where he fits in here.

There is also another style similarity I can see in "Dipsy Doodles (page 44)," "Real Cool Kid" and "Snack Attack" where the artist draws a single strand of hair sticking out above the bangs below Jughead's crown.  But they could be different artists or inkers.

So that is the best I can come up with. 

Nice work. I read my original posting and I realize that I suggested that Sun Fun was done by Hartley. I miswrote that and definitely agree with you that it was Schwartz and so I agree that the only At Hartley page is Prize Size.

[jick]

It would be great if these other Archie artists can be identified.

Meanwhile, in the Heritage Auctions that closed Jan.10 to 12, two modern double digest covers sold: Stan Goldberg 2001 $159 and Rex Lindsey 2022 $119.

Those prices are pocket change for any OA collector. I think everyone should get and own an Archie cover just to have one because why not at those prices.

Curiously, there is a just completed auction of an Archie interior page listed as being by Gene Colan. Did he ever draw Archie? Nothing in that art would indicate so. By the way, it sold for $73.

[Michael Browning]

On 1/13/2024 at 2:45 AM, jick said:

It would be great if these other Archie artists can be identified.

Meanwhile, in the Heritage Auctions that closed Jan.10 to 12, two modern double digest covers sold: Stan Goldberg 2001 $159 and Rex Lindsey 2022 $119.

Those prices are pocket change for any OA collector. I think everyone should get and own an Archie cover just to have one because why not at those prices.

Curiously, there is a just completed auction of an Archie interior page listed as being by Gene Colan. Did he ever draw Archie? Nothing in that art would indicate so. By the way, it sold for $73.

When Gene Colan couldn’t get work at Marvel and DC, which was very late in his career, he went to work for Archie. A friend of mine bought all of Gene’s original art in complete stories directly from Gene. He sold those almost 20 years ago and whoever bought them from him broke up the stories and sold them page by page.

Aside from some of the older, more vintage Archie art (Lucey and Montana, in particular), Dan DeCarlo bikini covers and a few of the Dan Parent risqué covers, all other Archie art typically sells very low.

[jick]

On 1/7/2024 at 12:08 AM, bkopman said:

My best guess is that Serve Verve, both Dipsy Doodle pages, Snack Attack, Real Cool Kid, and Chap Trap are all Stan Goldberg. I think that Still Life is also Goldberg. I do see hints of Dan DeCarlo in the female character but not enough to make me think it's him.

 

After doing much study on the style of Stan Goldberg, particularly: the lines to define the inner ear, the hair of Veronica and Jughead, I am of the opinion that Serve Verge and Real Cool Kid are Goldberg.  The others don't match up though.  And even if 1971 was a period Goldberg did not officially work for Archie, there are accounts of him doing it on the side - and what better way to do it than one-page gags.

Again, thanks a lot for getting the ball rolling and opening me up to the fact that Goldberg already did Archie work during this time.  But none of this is still conclusive, as there is a need to look closer at the Heritage auction results from Al Hartley's estate because the provenance there is certain and it seems Hartley did also draw Jughead with his crown facing upwards so it seems like there might be more Hartley pages in this issue here than I originally thought.

Meanwhile, a fairly modern Dan Decarlo cover - Betty & Veronica #1, 1985 - just sold in Heritage for $4,560.  That could be the biggest sale for a non-Bob Montana, non-bikini Archie cover.  The come-on must have been that it is from an issue #1.

Edited January 15 by jick

[archiecomicscollector]

Late to the party...but great pick up! Which pages/stories still need to be identified?

I started collecting Archie comics and related merchandise over 25 years ago, but only recently started collecting original art. My focus so far has been 1950s Bob Montana's comic strip art, 1960s-1970s Filmation animation cels, merchandise/promotional art, and modern Christmas covers and interior pages.

 

 

[Michael Browning]

On 1/14/2024 at 7:29 PM, jick said:

After doing much study on the style of Stan Goldberg, particularly: the lines to define the inner ear, the hair of Veronica and Jughead, I am of the opinion that Serve Verge and Real Cool Kid are Goldberg.  The others don't match up though.  And even if 1971 was a period Goldberg did not officially work for Archie, there are accounts of him doing it on the side - and what better way to do it than one-page gags.

Again, thanks a lot for getting the ball rolling and opening me up to the fact that Goldberg already did Archie work during this time.  But none of this is still conclusive, as there is a need to look closer at the Heritage auction results from Al Hartley's estate because the provenance there is certain and it seems Hartley did also draw Jughead with his crown facing upwards so it seems like there might be more Hartley pages in this issue here than I originally thought.

Meanwhile, a fairly modern Dan Decarlo cover - Betty & Veronica #1, 1985 - just sold in Heritage for $4,560.  That could be the biggest sale for a non-Bob Montana, non-bikini Archie cover.  The come-on must have been that it is from an issue #1.

From the great Archie artist Dan Parent, who is an expert at figuring out who Archie artists are:

Serve Verve is by Gus Lemoine.

Dipsy Doodle is most likely by Dexter Taylor.

Sun Fun is by Samm Schwartz.

Snack Attack is most likely by Gus Lemoine with a different inker than Serve Verve.

Real Cool Kid is by Gus Lemoine with Jon D'Agostino inks.

Spray Cans for Teens is by Samm Schwartz.

Still Life is by Gus Lemoine.

Dan couldn't ID the artists for the other pages and he said that Archie used to put test artists on some of the one pagers, so some artists may not be regulars.