grapeape Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 Price protection is a precursor to somebody holding the bag. That's the shame of not letting the market find its own top. I'll be waiting if it all collapses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readcomix Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 So we’re all catching falling knives these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tth2 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 On 2/29/2024 at 4:26 AM, grapeape said: Price protection is a precursor to somebody holding the bag. That's the shame of not letting the market find its own top. I'll be waiting if it all collapses It's totally understandable. OA pieces are unique and the OA market is not as deep and liquid as the comic market, plus on average an OA page is much more expensive than a comic. I can totally get why an owner of a Byrne X-Men page or Miller DD page or Watchmen page, for example, is going to immediately draw a very public price line in the sand for any comparable page that comes to market, effectively saying that no one's going to get it for less than this price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick2you2 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 On 2/29/2024 at 1:57 AM, tth2 said: It's totally understandable. OA pieces are unique and the OA market is not as deep and liquid as the comic market, plus on average an OA page is much more expensive than a comic. I can totally get why an owner of a Byrne X-Men page or Miller DD page or Watchmen page, for example, is going to immediately draw a very public price line in the sand for any comparable page that comes to market, effectively saying that no one's going to get it for less than this price. Some people better have a lot of money on hand, because if we ever do hit a severe economic recession, they will be among the first casualties. alxjhnsn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 On 2/23/2024 at 10:15 AM, buttock said: You never know until you're put in the situation, and you never know what someone's situation is. I have a group of friends with whom I grab beers from time to time and I threw out the question "how much would you have to get paid to be 7 feet tall?" For those of us who are financially comfortable the number was at least $50M. One of us, who isn't financially comfortable was at $250k. That amount of money would change his station in life, but not for the rest of us. Similarly, I had a friend who has a top 3 collectible in the field get an insane offer, 2x market and we're talking big money for 99.7% of people. But he's established and doesn't need the money, enjoys his job, doesn't have big debt. It won't change his life, and he likes the item. So what's the motivation to sell? It's the mindset of a collector, and having what you want matters more than money. So until those people who own the items want the money more than the item - which is not a given - they may never show up. There's something to this. As high-end pieces keep accumulating in the hands of well-off collectors/investors, you may see a slowdown in market velocity. It's a wealth transfer for longtime collectors of relatively modest means who are getting older and see a chance to cash in and retire, etc. We might have had a shaking out of a lot of that kind f stiff over the past few years and are now entering a more stable period of equilibrium. Eventually, however, those high-end pieces will hit the market again as the younger collectors decide to downsize/retire, or their families sell them off in estate sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 On 2/24/2024 at 1:02 AM, tth2 said: I've read that 25% of all 7-footers in the world have played in the NBA. For a 25% chance to play in the NBA, I would've thought that most people would be willing to pay to be 7 feet tall, not have to be paid. The other 75% played for the Wisconsin Badgers or the Purdue Boilermakers. tth2 and buttock 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 On 2/24/2024 at 10:57 AM, Dr. Balls said: My knee-jerk reaction is to say disagree, citing all the topical stuff like crashing economy, rising personal debt, etc - but when I look at the vintage car market (of which I spent lots of years in - but not the Barrett Jackson type stuff, obviously) - I have a tendency to agree on your assessment of the top end of the OA market. The top end of anything with nostalgia mixed with uniqueness seems to never waiver. However - at some point I have to wonder if the uniqueness of a thing becomes capped - because there is simply nothing unique left (I'm looking at you, Eurotrash Supercars) I apologize for rambling, but here I go: Not that I am collecting OA for "investment" purposes, nor do I expect to reap insane profits from my topless Rick Perry 'Catfight' cover but my future hope was that in the next ten years you speak about, there will be a whole new slew of "best examples" from a different era: the independent 90s. And as I speak about this, I am excluding artists like Lee, Platt, McFarlane, Miller, etc because they are already at the top and commanding huge numbers. I'm looking a little farther down the list. Many people that collect the nose-bleed stuff by Romita, Kane, etc could already be into the 90's work with the aforementioned Masters, but there's a lot of excellent craftsmanship in other areas of that era - and while one could argue that the "objectification of women" may hold that genre down permanently - my hope is that collectors come to see that more as an empowerment issue, rather than a sexual issue. Sure, people slapped unrealistic women in sexy poses on everything in the 90's, but I stick by the assessment that the core reasoning for that was that the reward for developing empowered female characters was an increase in book sales. Sure, not completely altruistic - but that era did spearhead en masse the idea that strong women had stories to tell (the quality of those stories is another debate). With all that hope that collectors see it a different way, there are some serious roadblocks that bottleneck the amount of stuff in the 90's that is unique enough to stand the test of time combined with a continuation of it's own brand. I think the insane price recently paid for that Sue Storm cleavage revealing costume answers your question. Dr. Balls 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) On 2/26/2024 at 4:08 PM, grapeape said: Very good points. Just know that there are some on the board who insist comic OA will never crossover to, say, the fine art market. While they make relevant points about snobbery, Or Rembrandt vs. Sal Buscena... I still believe there is a way OA expands in some form over to the galleries of fine art. It's not always comparisons that drive an art market. Picasso is on another level than Don Heck. Okay. A given. Art is intuitive, and the collector is a target for manipulation, but also self examination of what appeals to them. Now it only takes money and access, mixed with enthusiasm.and A clever gallery rep will one day "challenge" the fine art world with primitive expression that relies less on comparing the talent of the fine art masters, but does mark a significant time period of the comic created form. Nostalgia and "one of a kind" art mix together and make a hell of drug. I can't speak to digital art, other than to say it's what we have now. I prefer the old way. I'm happy to hear your experience with young people and their expressed appreciation of comic art! I think are likely to impact the OA market over the next 10-20 years: Ain't gonna happen for a long, long time. Maybe if our civilization collapses and archaeologists find this stuff in caves or vaults in a couple thousand years, it will be regarded as objects of art -- like a painted Grecian urn. But not for a while -- except for maybe a few crossover examples like Chris Ware or Emil Ferris. Edited February 29 by PhilipB2k17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 I was just recently offered a nice sum for one of my modern pages. And by Modern, I mean something less than 10 years old. And it's not superhero or from one of the big 3 publishers. So, you never know. grapeape and Dr. Balls 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Balls Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 On 2/29/2024 at 6:34 AM, PhilipB2k17 said: I think the insane price recently paid for that Sue Storm cleavage revealing costume answers your question. I remember seeing that somewhere recently, but I don't think I ever saw the final price - do you know where that page was listed at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapeape Posted February 29 Author Share Posted February 29 On 2/29/2024 at 5:38 AM, PhilipB2k17 said: Ain't gonna happen for a long, long time. Maybe if our civilization collapses and archaeologists find this stuff in caves or vaults in a couple thousand years, it will be regarded as objects of art -- like a painted Grecian urn. But not for a while -- except for maybe a few crossover examples like Chris Ware or Emil Ferris. Most likely you are correct. Still, I see an opening to the fine art world. It's small, just a crack. I believe some comic art would translate to a small, but influential network of art pimps. It would just take a few well heeled galleries to experiment in "Primitive pop culural expression." I can see that's not likely, but as Lloyd said in Dumb and Dumber, " so you're saying there's a chance." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecclectica Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 On 2/29/2024 at 4:04 PM, Dr. Balls said: I remember seeing that somewhere recently, but I don't think I ever saw the final price - do you know where that page was listed at? https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/story-page/paul-ryan-and-danny-bulanadi-fantastic-four-371-story-page-4-original-art-marvel-1992-/a/322403-48255.s $13,200.00 Dr. Balls, Will_K, grapeape and 1 other 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post grapeape Posted February 29 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 29 Xatari, Will_K, buttock and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapeape Posted February 29 Author Share Posted February 29 On 2/29/2024 at 7:04 AM, Dr. Balls said: I remember seeing that somewhere recently, but I don't think I ever saw the final price - do you know where that page was listed at? Dr. Balls has my favorite avatar Dr. Balls 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xatari Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 On 2/29/2024 at 7:38 AM, grapeape said: Died when I read this. grapeape and Dr. Balls 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will_K Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) On 2/29/2024 at 10:39 AM, grapeape said: Dr. Balls has my favorite avatar The Fantastic Two !!! @Dr. Balls Edited February 29 by Will_K grapeape and Dr. Balls 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Balls Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 On 2/29/2024 at 3:36 PM, Will_K said: The Fantastic Two !!! @Dr. Balls That image is the only NFT I would ever spend money on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator CGC Mike Posted March 1 Administrator Share Posted March 1 On 2/24/2024 at 12:00 PM, grapeape said: I wish I knew how to combine them. I know how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapeape Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 On 2/29/2024 at 6:55 PM, CGC Mike said: I know how. Thanx mike! 👂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdroom Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 On 2/29/2024 at 7:16 AM, grapeape said: Most likely you are correct. Still, I see an opening to the fine art world. It's small, just a crack. I believe some comic art would translate to a small, but influential network of art pimps. It would just take a few well heeled galleries to experiment in "Primitive pop culural expression." I can see that's not likely, but as Lloyd said in Dumb and Dumber, " so you're saying there's a chance." As a jaded art world habitué, the problem I see with this is that no one in the art world thinks comics are primitive. Sixty years ago, when Lichtenstein was treating comic panels as essentially factory-made artifacts, you had some of that attitude, but even those same people held Krazy Kat in high regard. Nowadays comics are revered and referenced all the time. They (we, I guess) just believe that comic original art is made primarily for reproduction, and even if it looks pretty good on a gallery wall, no one is ever convinced that it was purpose built to be on that wall. There's a word you hear sometimes, "auratic," meaning the object itself has an aura, a presence and sense of wholeness that reproduction can't capture. In fine art, that's what you want in the single object. In comics, it's the published comic that is auratic, potentially. A page from it is just a production artifact, and this can be deeply cool, expensive, and even beautiful, but it's fundamentally a different category, and not the business that the art world is in. All that said, I've seen Kirby double splashes hold their own, auratically, on a wall with a Leon Golub, so it's not impossible. grapeape, timguerrero, MyNameIsLegion and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
