JimmyT77 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 I was thinking.... And this might have been covered already, but does CGC differentiate Direct edition comics and newstand editions when they total up the census? I don't believe they do, but correct me if I'm wrong. Take Spawn #1. I know they note if it is newstand on the label but if you look at the census for a direct edition or a newstand edition they both show 11895 in a universal grade 9.8. Some people want the newstand because it is "more rare" than a direct, but supposed those 11,895 9.8's are even divided between the two editions, how then can the price difference be justified? To me, once you grade a book, you just created another "edition" and if you have 600ish 9.8's in a newsy and 600ish 9.8's in a direct than to me the consensus is equal and the rarity and value should be the same? Maybe it's just my pea-brain overthinking it too much. ADAMANTIUM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 (edited) Tbh Cgc didn't start marking Newsstand on "the label" until like after 20 years of slabbing business taking place. That is 20 years not even on "the label", so they had no need to break out in the census after that twenty years to "then start." That would have been seen as a reholder/cashgrab/regrade, which was already a "hard enough" choice for Newsstand collectors. On 5/19/2024 at 2:48 PM, JimmyT77 said: I was thinking.... And this might have been covered already, but does CGC differentiate Direct edition comics and newstand editions when they total up the census? I don't believe they do, but correct me if I'm wrong. Take Spawn #1. I know they note if it is newstand on the label but if you look at the census for a direct edition or a newstand edition they both show 11895 in a universal grade 9.8. Some people want the newstand because it is "more rare" than a direct, but supposed those 11,895 9.8's are even divided between the two editions, how then can the price difference be justified? To me, once you grade a book, you just created another "edition" and if you have 600ish 9.8's in a newsy and 600ish 9.8's in a direct than to me the consensus is equal and the rarity and value should be the same? Maybe it's just my pea-brain overthinking it too much. Edited May 19 by ADAMANTIUM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyT77 Posted May 19 Author Share Posted May 19 I can believe that because many many years ago when a much younger me was collecting comics, I don't recall any differentiation between the two editions, the value was the value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning55 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 Somewhere (I don't know where), there is an approximation of how many of any title/issue# are newsstand. After a certain date, newsstand counts diminish drastically to almost zero. That is what determines if a book has a higher newsstand value, not the CGC census. The CGC census in some cases, maybe all cases, does not divide out the population. And even if it did, the graded quantity has nothing to do with the printed quantity, although they likely follow a similar pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyT77 Posted May 19 Author Share Posted May 19 That is the flaw in the system to me! I can find the amount of issues that were originally printed for newsstand distribution, which is no doubt lower than direct but without an official graded register, it's pure speculation as to the ratio of newsy to direct and their subsequent value differential. Speculation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThothAmon Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 On 5/19/2024 at 4:53 PM, JimmyT77 said: pure speculation That’s where the fun is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyT77 Posted May 19 Author Share Posted May 19 Absolutely! I'm not condoning what people buy, just trying to wrap my head around this "phenomenon". I happen to think a UPC detracts from a beautifully drawn cover, and guess what, I wouldn't pay as much for a newsy, so to me newsstands have less value! But that's just my outlook! To each his own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning55 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 Just go by eBay past sales, or GPA data. It's not a mystery. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=spawn+1+(cgc%2Ccbcs)+9.8&_sacat=0&_udlo=&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&rt=nc&_fosrp=1&_ftrt=901&_ipg=200&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&_dmd=1&_stpos=01757-1235&_sofindtype=2&_osacat=0&_odkw=hulk+258+(cgc%2Ccbcs)+9.6&_samilow=&_frompage=itemsbyseller&_sop=10&_ftrv=1&_samihi=&_udhi=&_sadis=15 https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=spawn+1+newsstand+(cgc%2Ccbcs)+9.8&_sacat=0&_udlo=&_dmd=1&_stpos=01757-1235&_odkw=spawn+1+(cgc%2Ccbcs)+9.8&_osacat=0&_sop=10&_ipg=200&LH_Complete=1&_udhi=&LH_Sold=1&_sadis=15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyT77 Posted May 19 Author Share Posted May 19 On 5/19/2024 at 4:59 PM, Lightning55 said: Just go by eBay past sales, or GPA data. It's not a mystery. Actually that just reinforces the mystery behind comic pricing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning55 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 On 5/19/2024 at 5:36 PM, JimmyT77 said: Actually that just reinforces the mystery behind comic pricing. I suppose that is true. But it shows a market history of what people are willing to pay for a particular item, which is how Fair Market Value is determined. Does it make sense? Rarely. JimmyT77 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadroch Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 Is it supposed to make sense? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyT77 Posted May 20 Author Share Posted May 20 On 5/19/2024 at 5:43 PM, Lightning55 said: Does it make sense? Rarely. An honest answer from someone! Value is based on peoples opinions, I'm fine with that. Everyone on here would be willing to pay a different amount for the same book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 On 5/19/2024 at 2:48 PM, JimmyT77 said: I was thinking.... And this might have been covered already, but does CGC differentiate Direct edition comics and newstand editions when they total up the census? I don't believe they do, but correct me if I'm wrong. They do, but with multiple caveats: 1. Only if the issue is one that they arbitrarily chose to divide at some point will there be separate records. 2. The numbers will only reflect what was properly recorded after they separated the different versions. If there were 1000 copies graded before that division, they will all stay with the default entry. You can see historical CGC Census data at valiantman's site, which will let you see, with a bit of digging, when the separation happened. 3. They are supposedly (still) working on a way to publicly show the results of their full acknowledgment of Newsstands that happened only (relatively) recently. On 5/19/2024 at 2:48 PM, JimmyT77 said: Take Spawn #1. I know they note if it is newstand on the label but if you look at the census for a direct edition or a newstand edition they both show 11895 in a universal grade 9.8. They do not "both show" anything. There is no both; they aren't separated. There is only a single entry for the issue and it's impossible for anyone to know how many of each version CGC has graded. On 5/19/2024 at 2:48 PM, JimmyT77 said: Some people want the newstand because it is "more rare" than a direct, but supposed those 11,895 9.8's are even divided between the two editions, how then can the price difference be justified? To me, once you grade a book, you just created another "edition" and if you have 600ish 9.8's in a newsy and 600ish 9.8's in a direct than to me the consensus is equal and the rarity and value should be the same? This is as ridiculous as the garbage the Newsstand pumpers claim. There is no way the split for Spawn 1 is even close to 50/50 due to the massive disparity in distribution. ADAMANTIUM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyT77 Posted May 21 Author Share Posted May 21 On 5/21/2024 at 1:53 AM, Lazyboy said: There is no way the split for Spawn 1 is even close to 50/50 due to the massive disparity in distribution. I was just throwing this out as a hypothetical scenario, I have no idea the actual number, doesn't sound like anyone does.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valiantman Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 (edited) GPAnalysis has been splitting out the newsstand and the direct editions for several years for important (or very popular) books. They don't use CGC's newsstand identification, GPA is identifying these by hand. For example, GPAnalysis for Spawn #1 CGC 9.8 Spawn #1 Direct Editions = 728 copies recorded in 2023 (93.5%) CGC 9.8 Spawn #1 Newsstand = 51 copies recorded in 2023 (6.5%) Edited May 26 by valiantman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
