Heritage Auctions Sept 12-15 1 1

[MAY1979]

On 9/16/2024 at 7:36 AM, KirbyCollector said:

The difficulty right now is figuring out if this represents a buying opportunity or signals a topping situation. I'm seeing a lot of good John Buscema go for lower prices that I expected, personally. 

You make an interesting point.

Thinking also on the non-prime we may be seeing a correction into the territory those pieces should be in without the shameless rampant dealer manipulation. As well as sheer volume of stuff for sale recently as opposed slower drip of the past. As I mentioned earlier the larger dealers can't protection bid everything.

Edited Monday at 11:47 AM by MAY1979

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 9/16/2024 at 6:36 AM, KirbyCollector said:

The difficulty right now is figuring out if this represents a buying opportunity or signals a topping situation. I'm seeing a lot of good John Buscema go for lower prices that I expected, personally. 

The Palmer estate has really diluted the Buscema market.  If I see another non-action character or talking page from Avengers or Thor on HA I'm gonna start collecting Pogo strips. 

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 9/16/2024 at 6:46 AM, MAY1979 said:

You make an interesting point.

Thinking also on the non-prime we may be seeing a correction into the territory those pieces should be in without the shameless rampant dealer manipulation. As well as sheer volume of stuff for sale recently as opposed slower drip of the past. As I mentioned earlier the larger dealers can't protection bid everything.

Bingo-  Gary Dolgoff was trying to sell pages like this on eBay 10 years ago and they sat and got re-listed  over and over for $400-500 because they were overpriced then. Same for Doc Savage pages. Now someone got it in in their head that every Doc Savage page is $1000-1500. These used to be $200 pages tops. 

Edited Monday at 12:26 PM by MyNameIsLegion

[cstojano]

On 9/15/2024 at 5:51 PM, Professor K said:

I thought this was so neat I had to post it. For one the artwork is incredible, I mean how do you even paint clear glass? But mainly because it's just so messed up. The kids poisoned mommy. She draws a skull and bones poison symbol on the condensation of the pitcher before she collapses. 

Thanks for posting this. It completely passed me by, not that I would have been a contender here. Still as you point out this is a pretty amazing painting. I can only assume he was working from an actual image here or a real life example to get the glass details correct.

Edited Monday at 02:05 PM by cstojano

[tth2]

On 9/16/2024 at 12:45 PM, malvin said:

On 9/16/2024 at 11:39 AM, tth2 said:

<snip>

The auction houses need to be careful that they're not killing the golden goose.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean, but are you saying they should turn away consignments so they don't flood the market? 

Malvin

Yes.  They simply need to start cutting back on the number and frequency of auctions.  That may result in turning away some consignments until the middle- and lower-end of the market stabilizes.  

[tth2]

On 9/16/2024 at 7:36 PM, KirbyCollector said:

On 9/16/2024 at 11:39 AM, tth2 said:

the sheer volume of OA that we're being constantly deluged with... is really starting to exert downward pressure on a lot of stuff, particularly the lower quality stuff.

The difficulty right now is figuring out if this represents a buying opportunity or signals a topping situation. I'm seeing a lot of good John Buscema go for lower prices that I expected, personally. 

I think it's simply an imbalance between supply and demand at the moment.  There is too much supply and it's pushing down prices. 

[cstojano]

On 9/16/2024 at 7:22 AM, tth2 said:

I think it's simply an imbalance between supply and demand at the moment.  There is too much supply and it's pushing down prices. 

HA started loading the Nov signature auction weeks ago, and we have the International Signature in less than a month. So just HA alone has monthly signature auctions this fall. 

[comix4fun]

On 9/15/2024 at 1:04 PM, delekkerste said:

I think people were surprised by the greater-than-usual number of lots that fell through the cracks (as well as the large number of as-expected results when we've become accustomed to expecting better-than-expected). To be sure, though, there was no shortage of strong results and even some exceptional ones. 

The question is whether this was a mildly disappointing one-off or the first crack in the OA market's facade. IIRC, we had a bit of a comedown at one point last year/early this year in some parts of the market but things bounced back strongly after a couple of auction cycles and the last auction cycle (June) was back to blowing away expectations. In any case, it will probably take a deeper and more sustained string of disappointments to really start worrying people.  

To me, the big question...really the most important question is....why do the "fall through the cracks" , "below expectations", "soft results" and "bargains" NEVER ever ever coincide with the pieces on my watch/bid list? If I spot it, if it catches my eye, if it's a good to strong to great example it's still multiples what a soft result would be. 

It would be fun if my collecting nostalgia, just once, coincided with one of those passed over or not in vogue niches. A brother needs a "soft result" to recharge his batteries every now and then. 

 

[Bronty]

On 9/16/2024 at 10:20 AM, tth2 said:

Yes.  They simply need to start cutting back on the number and frequency of auctions.  That may result in turning away some consignments until the middle- and lower-end of the market stabilizes.  

It seems to me that managing the supply is one thing they rarely engage in; I think that's to heritage's credit.    If people want to sell, they help them sell, regardless of the market.    I don't think the auction house should really be trying to manage the comic art market, for the most part.    Obviously they want a healthy market to have a healthy business, but if its a matter of whether or not..... let's say.... Gil Kane art takes a 20% dive because there's a significant bump in the supply of Kane, I think they rightly let the chips fall where they may.   

Edited Monday at 03:11 PM by Bronty

[Bronty]

On 9/16/2024 at 11:06 AM, comix4fun said:

To me, the big question...really the most important question is....why do the "fall through the cracks" , "below expectations", "soft results" and "bargains" NEVER ever ever coincide with the pieces on my watch/bid list? If I spot it, if it catches my eye, if it's a good to strong to great example it's still multiples what a soft result would be. 

It would be fun if my collecting nostalgia, just once, coincided with one of those passed over or not in vogue niches. A brother needs a "soft result" to recharge his batteries every now and then. 

 

btw, can you believe its been 22 years and we are still having these discussions?

[comix4fun]

On 9/16/2024 at 10:12 AM, Bronty said:

btw, can you believe its been 22 years and we are still having these discussions?

Yeah. Nuts right? 
"When's it gonna top off?" "It's gotta be soon" "It can't keep going, right?"
"Why does all the stuff I like keep escalating?"   

I remember when a super high grade Amazing Fantasy 15 sold for *gasp* $40,000 in 1989. 
That was IT!! We have reached the PEAK! How could one ever sell for more?!
The exasperation has only become more wracking as five figures, turned to six and now to seven. 

[delekkerste]

On 9/16/2024 at 11:06 AM, comix4fun said:

To me, the big question...really the most important question is....why do the "fall through the cracks" , "below expectations", "soft results" and "bargains" NEVER ever ever coincide with the pieces on my watch/bid list?

It might be your champagne and caviar tastes. 

[Bronty]

On 9/16/2024 at 11:15 AM, comix4fun said:

Yeah. Nuts right? 
"When's it gonna top off?" "It's gotta be soon" "It can't keep going, right?"
"Why does all the stuff I like keep escalating?"   

I remember when a super high grade Amazing Fantasy 15 sold for *gasp* $40,000 in 1989. 
That was IT!! We have reached the PEAK! How could one ever sell for more?!
The exasperation has only become more wracking as five figures, turned to six and now to seven. 

Yeah, I remember that AF 15 sale too.   White Mountain copy maybe?  

 

[comix4fun]

On 9/16/2024 at 10:48 AM, Bronty said:

Yeah, I remember that AF 15 sale too.   White Mountain copy maybe?  

 

Yeah, that sticks in my head. I remember reading about it in an Overstreet update. 

That was how we got information back in those days children....it was written....ON PAPER and sent through the MAIL!

 

[Bronty]

On 9/16/2024 at 11:49 AM, comix4fun said:

Yeah, that sticks in my head. I remember reading about it in an Overstreet update. 

That was how we got information back in those days children....it was written....ON PAPER and sent through the MAIL!

 

Or purchased in person at the shop!   

Prices had a little handy H beside them to let you know a particular issue was HOT!

[Shaun Hill]

I miss that as it was such a fun season.

[PhilipB2k17]

On 9/16/2024 at 11:06 AM, comix4fun said:

To me, the big question...really the most important question is....why do the "fall through the cracks" , "below expectations", "soft results" and "bargains" NEVER ever ever coincide with the pieces on my watch/bid list? If I spot it, if it catches my eye, if it's a good to strong to great example it's still multiples what a soft result would be. 

It would be fun if my collecting nostalgia, just once, coincided with one of those passed over or not in vogue niches. A brother needs a "soft result" to recharge his batteries every now and then. 

 

Because you have a good collectors eye. 

[PhilipB2k17]

Me, waiting for the deluge of Kirby art to hit the market over the next decade:

[Grant Turner]

On 9/16/2024 at 1:00 PM, PhilipB2k17 said:

Me, waiting for the deluge of Kirby art to hit the market over the next decade

I made a decision (which seemed crazy at the time) to sell my mid-tier Kirby pages for a key Ditko marvel silver age page, thinking that the Kirby market always has  inventory, while the silver age Marvel Ditko content is a little harder to find…

we shall see if I’m right and I hope your prediction comes true!

Edited Tuesday at 03:36 AM by Grant Turner

[tth2]

On 9/16/2024 at 11:10 PM, Bronty said:

On 9/16/2024 at 10:20 PM, tth2 said:

Yes.  They simply need to start cutting back on the number and frequency of auctions.  That may result in turning away some consignments until the middle- and lower-end of the market stabilizes.  

It seems to me that managing the supply is one thing they rarely engage in; I think that's to heritage's credit.    If people want to sell, they help them sell, regardless of the market.    I don't think the auction house should really be trying to manage the comic art market, for the most part.    Obviously they want a healthy market to have a healthy business, but if its a matter of whether or not..... let's say.... Gil Kane art takes a 20% dive because there's a significant bump in the supply of Kane, I think they rightly let the chips fall where they may.   

Auction houses very much have a vested interest in maintaining strong prices.  Plunging prices actually result in lower demand and supply, and the appearance of your business holding a fire sale is bad for every business except carpets.  There is a big difference between being a prestige auction house and a clearing house auction house.

They've cut down on the number of auctions before.  I remember back in the '00s they went to bi-monthly Signature Auctions to catch the hot market in slabbed books and then pulled back after prices softened.