Hensley300 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 well, the wolverine 145 nabisco variant in 9.8 went for $900. Its a good bet it will retain its value over the long haul give or take 100-200 dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDonut Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Haters haters haters. There are only 200 copies of this book - note that the cover for Batman 608 RRP has been used elsewhere (most notably for the French edition) and will all but positively be used for the trade paperback. The Fables 6 book is also going upwards in price, and is, in my opinion, the better "investment". That cover has also been used elsewhere, for the trade: I don't think this is a manufactured "collectible" - this is an incentive to get dealers to come to the meeting. DC has given out alternate cover books at RRPs in the past, notably a very cool alternative cover to All-Star 1 at the Baltimore RRP in 1999 (which I have a nice 9.0 version, but my POS scanner is not working right). I think this book will in fact hold its value, as there are only 200 of them. This is akin to the Star Wars 1 35 center, I think this book has legs. I'd love to have the four back that I've already sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COI Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 You had 4 copies? Did you attend this meeting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDonut Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I didn't, but my local comic shop did (Blatant Plug: Phoenix Comics and Cards in Herndon, VA). I bought one from them and sold three others, and then decided that since I'd much rather have that supercool Crime Suspenstories 15/1 cover variant that popped up, I'd sell my 608. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aman619 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 what are these retailers getting for copies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aman619 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 alright AK--thanks for the assist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDonut Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I don't know - I would imagine that most retailers have already flipped theirs once. I know that somebody at the RRP was trying to buy all of the copies up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aman619 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 the more they can get for their free copies, the better DC looks to them. Like giving out money. Considering how skewed the playing field is against retailers who pre-pay, pre-choose and can't return unsold merchandise, a few free bucks on the side is sadly appreciated by them I'm sure. Somehow I'm still not really convinced there are only 200. Once those presses get inked and running, 200 covers (even all ganged up un one sheet) takes about a few minutes time. They must have added them to the pressrun of the second printing...but even so, 200??? they would have had to destroy many times that much to get it back down to so few. hey Donut---does it say "second printing" in the indicia on the last inside page?? Im curious about how they printed these.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowout Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 but this argument of there being thousands of copies dosen't fly. There are hundreds of thousands of EVERY Amazing Spider-Man issue, so by your logic why pay for a high grade when there are so many lowgrades? After all, the comic is the same right? The key difference being that a high grade ASM etc is very collectable and comands a premium, as to achive such status the book has had to survive the ravages of time. Careful storage and handling have made these books tough to come by. A true premium item. A modern variant on the other hand rolled of the printing presses yesterday. Difficulty level detemined only by when the printer pressed the stop button. Now you tell me again that your analogy makes sense. As far as comparing this book to 70's price variants again this is flawed. The price variants were released as a marketing exercise and did not become collectable for many years. They have become collectable mainly for their historical significance IMO. This Batman retailer incentive book is clearly aimed at gready dealers and speculators and can be directly compared to the Gold Logo Valiant/ Image incentive books of the early 90's. And look what happened to those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aman619 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 his Batman retailer incentive book is clearly aimed at gready dealers and speculators and can be directly compared to the Gold Logo Valiant/ Image incentive books of the early 90's. And look what happened to those All those titles (except for I think Spawn) are no longer being published. And there were lots more than 200 of each. I see your point. But dont misread mine (even tho I'm answering your comments to AK) . I say IF things happen in a certain way, these 200 will be worth having. But one of the conditions I stated will DEFINITELY be true for this book that cannot be said for all these others you mentioned: BATMAN will still be published/exist 10 years from now. And does Donut know you think he's greedy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowout Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I say IF things happen in a certain way, these 200 will be worth having. But one of the conditions I stated will DEFINITELY be true for this book that cannot be said for all these others you mentioned: BATMAN will still be published/exist 10 years from now. I accept what you are saying, and certainly this book will hold some kind of premium value over the regular version. What I do not agree with is the concept of printing 'special' books with the sole purpose of them being resold for vastly inflated prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PovertyRow Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 What I do not agree with is the concept of printing 'special' books with the sole purpose of them being resold for vastly inflated prices. Blowout - I cannot agree more. m not really responding to this particular thread but more to your thought. One of the things that make comic books valuable is that 1) no one saved them and 2) they said something about a culture. They were not intended to be "collectibles". It just happened that comic books turned out to really "ring a bell" with a LOT of people, who started to try collecting them as time went by. I recently read an old cartoon in an old CBM - it was called something like "My Mother Never Threw Anything Out" (sorry - that CBM is in work so cannot reference exactly) - anyway - it is a one-panel comic with a guy proffering an Action 1 to a dealer who says something like "Another Action 1? Can't use it - I got a case of them in back." while the dealer is surrounded by other long boxes of cool comics. A true "collectible" cannot be manufactured. They spring from our culture and our history. Just because something is specially manufactured to be limited to "xxx number of copies" means absolutely nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aman619 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 What I do not agree with is the concept of printing 'special' books with the sole purpose of them being resold for vastly inflated prices. I hear you.... just seems to me like corporate smoke and mirrors. Its DC being 'nice' in a way that costs them little but earns brownie points with retailers. DC doesnt care all that much how the bottom feeders play with the things once they have bestowed them on their clients. I do not own ANY of these books. I wont pay $100s for them. But I wouldn't mind owning them or being given one of each. At that price they have lots of potential! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aman619 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 A true "collectible" cannot be manufactured. They spring from our culture and our history. Just because something is specially manufactured to be limited to "xxx number of copies" means absolutely nothing. This is absolutely true. However, there ARE items that are 'manufactured collectibles" that DO increase in value IN SPITE of having "Collector's Edition" plastered right on the cover. Just cause its a greedy money grabbing ploy when it comes out, doesnt mean it will fail to have value. 99% of the loser investments happen because of an nearly unlimited supply. Not so in this particular case. god--I cant believe I'm arguing IN FAVOR of this stupid book! Much of it is because I have relaly liked the storyline. It really stands out for me as other "classics" did in their time: Dark Knight, Watchman, etc. POV, if you are not reading it I urge you to pick them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PovertyRow Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 However, there ARE items that are 'manufactured collectibles" that DO increase in value IN SPITE of having "Collector's Edition" plastered right on the cover. Just cause its a greedy money grabbing ploy when it comes out, doesnt mean it will fail to have value. OK - but is "value" a proper sign? Personally I would substitute the term "price" for "value". Many people will definitely go for the "manufactured collectible". And these people CAN raise the price (price, not value ) What I have a truly impossible time understanding is how a newly manufactured "collectible", made expressly for the collectibles market, has any real reflection of our history, culture etc? But then again, my impression of a real collectible is somerthing that DOES reflect our history and culture and, most importantly for the big money - was thrown out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aman619 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 okay here's where the value/price of a manufactured collectible like this cmics blurs together. Old comics are scarcer in high grade, right? So, many of us who collect old comics want the the ones in the highest grade, which are the scarcest ones. And being the scarcest, they command the highest prices (have the highest values.) When I think of this particular giveaway POS, I think that in the future, (as we are seeing in 70s and 80s books with the CGC census) even high grade coies are not scarce. because the printruns are high, and especially because the retention rate in 9.6 o rbetter is historically astronomically high. So I can argue that in the future, the focus may shift to the alternate versions in high grade as they are much scarcer than the commons, and scarcer still in high grade. These will be defined as the 'best" ones to own of these issues that had had alternates printed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PovertyRow Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 These will be defined as the 'best" ones to own of these issues that had had alternates printed. I did read yo So I can argue that in the future, the focus may shift to the alternate versions in high grade as they are much scarcer than the commons, and scarcer still in high grade. These will be defined as the 'best" ones to own of these issues that had had alternates printed. ur post but selected what I consider the most relevant part - if I am wrong - well - to heck with ya! My main question here would be what criteria would be used to define this value, as there really is no inherent value in most manufactured collectibles. The main reason being, these are people who know the market intrically and have actually manufactured things to slot what they see. This IS a bit different friom a high grade old comic where the number of people seeking the high grades have been doing so for many years. In the manufactured collectibles case, the manufactureres have made something to satisfy a perceived desireability. In the hi grade old comic market, the collectors made that determination over time and experience with what is available. So I can argue that in the future, the focus may shift to the alternate versions in high grade as they are much scarcer than the commons, and scarcer still in high grade. These will be defined as the 'best" ones to own of these issues that had had alternates printed. Well the real thing is how many of these will be available in LOW grade? That is one of the things about the modern day collectibles. I watch home shopping channels- really enjoy them as they ARE a cultural statement - especially enjoy the coin shows where they say about modern coins "these are MS 69" or "These are MS 70" (equivelant to a CGC 9.9 or 10.0) and then equate them to the non-existent 19th century coins saying things like "If this were a Morgan Silver dollar in MS 70 it would go for what? Half a million?" It is like saying "This is a CGC 10.0 Ultimate Spiderman #23 - a 10.0. If this were an Action #1 in 10.0 it would be worth (fill in the blank cause I aion;t even gonna guess! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aman619 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 It is like saying "This is a CGC 10.0 Ultimate Spiderman #23 - a 10.0. If this were an Action #1 in 10.0 it would be worth (fill in the blank cause I aion;t even gonna guess! ) ..and it might turn out to have colortouch!! Do you believe that the MH Action #1 was colortouched? I dont remember your comments on that thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PovertyRow Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Do you believe that the MH Action #1 was colortouched? I dont remember your comments on that thread.... You have a good memory - I never did comment! Mainly because I have no idea if it was or wasn't! I have heard this and that from this person and that but without seeing it, really canont say. (man wish I could see it!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COI Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Now you tell me again that your analogy makes sense. It was not meant as a perfect, direct analogy. My point was that any 2 year old can say that supply and demand are what create value more than anything else. And right now, this book is in demand, and could continue to be in demand depending on whether Jim Lee's reign on the title produces significant consequences to the "Batman world" or not. If something significant does come out of these story arcs, Batman #608 will be regarded as a key starting point, much the same way that a Green Lantern #76, X men 108, or Daredevil 158 are. So if(and I do mean IF) Batman 608 becomes a "significant" modern down the road, surely a variant of that issue with only 200 copies will be in tremendous demand. I understand what you're saying about "manufactured collectables", but really it dosen't matter. Sometimes, what SHOULD be truly sought after, and what ARE sought after are 2 different things. Sure, all modern Variants are a manufactured collectable, but as I just stated, it dosen't really matter. Collectors such as yourself will get turned off by it, which is understandable, but keep this in mind: I'm not sure what you collect, but there are a lot of hardcore modern collectors(often around my age, or a bit older/younger) that have some disposable income, but NO interest in vintage(Gold, Silver, Bronze) comics. So a lot of these collectors who are trying to put together the best modern collections they can, will go after these scarce variants and set them as their "grails". These are the same kind of collectors who pay crazy money for CGC 9.9 and 10.0 moderns. It's a collecting mentality; the same kind of mentality that translates to gold and Silver through guys like Steve Geppi or Tom Brulato. And these people will naturally flock to these low print variants, as they present some of the few real challenges in collecting moderns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
