Stan Lee Lied - Your Handy Guide to Every Lie in the 'Origins of Marvel Comics' 9 9

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 9/20/2024 at 2:31 PM, KCOComics said:

Stan Lee and we shouldn't believe he alone created the Marvel Universe,  don't we know that. Haven't we known that for 30 years? 

!00% agree.

It's overkill and just hammering a point home over and over and over again.

How much hate is enough?

How many times can you say 'I told you so' before no-one cares anymore?

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 9/20/2024 at 2:32 PM, lostboys said:

Yeah, maybe as long as they don't read this thread.

The author should stop ranting and raving here and let the book speak for itself.

Absolutely correct. It just screams of bias.

If you didn't know anything about the subject matter but wanted to learn about it and buy the book, and someone pointed you to this forum and thread, and then you read some of the comments made by the author, you could not come to any other conclusion than that the author has a personal agenda.

Did he perhaps at one time send a story idea in to Stan Lee and get rejected? Did Stan then use the idea himself? 

You are going to draw your own conclusions.

I have NEVER before seen a book promoted in this manner. It's truly mind blowing to be truthful.

Edited 3 hours ago by Paul © ® ⚽️💙™

[jimjum12]

On 9/20/2024 at 9:40 AM, Paul © ® ⚽️💙™ said:

!00% agree.

It's overkill and just hammering a point home over and over and over again.

How much hate is enough?

How many times can you say 'I told you so' before no-one cares anymore?

And throughout this entire barb-fest, I believe I've yet to see mention of Jack's claiming creation of Captain America over Joe Siimon, even though the character designs, BY Joe, still exist to this day. Also, no mention of how Jack rehashed his OWN ideas, as he was punted from company to company. Also, no mention of the interviews where Lee and Kirby each separately claim that they got the inspiration of what to produce, based on what was selling best at the theater at the moment. Lo, cometh the Big Monsters, for example. Jack is on record stating his love for Harryhausen. But why muddy the waters with all that inconvenient truth, when, after all, we all agree that Stan got the meat, and Jack got the bone? On the other hand, Jack at 50 bucks per page, was HIGHLY compensated for the day. Jack would have been best served by dumping Marvel and going straight to Hannah Barbera, instead of trying to jam the FF, Thor, and the X-Men all into this unwieldy thing called the Fourth World. I AM glad the estate received the settlement, for there is rarely justice in THIS world. Carry on  GOD BLESS ...

-jmbo(a friend of jesus)

 

I do believe, however, that Stan led Jack to believe that his position with Marvel was on much more solid footing than it actually was ... shame, shame.

Edited 1 hour ago by jimjum12

[Mmehdy]

On 9/19/2024 at 11:28 PM, mrc said:

I wish people would stop saying this. Literally no one believes Stan 'came up with everything.' It's just lazy rhetoric.

Knowing and PROVING are different things...issue by issue, detective work....this is not an easy thing....it is Lazy Rhetoric to assume anyone knows anything.

Especially the masses, the non collectors...yet this book goes out against the tide and you want to stop the truth...Nobody has done anything close to this....

You can stop thinking it, but I say fellow collectors owe SM...from the knockout title, to the gut punch interior ...a big thank you !

Edited 2 hours ago by Mmehdy

[Mmehdy]

On 9/20/2024 at 6:40 AM, Paul © ® ⚽️💙™ said:

!00% agree.

It's overkill and just hammering a point home over and over and over again.

How much hate is enough?

How many times can you say 'I told you so' before no-one cares anymore?

just the opposite in the "real world"....this book is written NOT just for the  long time comic book  collectors ....it is an educational piece accessible for  the every person that cares and today in 2024 Marvel has an amazing cultural impact...1.3 Billion on the last Marvel Deadpool movie alone. There needs to be a * maybe even two** when it says Stan created anything......

I still care because I want to know more...I want detailed proof....proper info...nobody has done what SM has done in 300 plus pages of research.....I done with the BS...the hype...I want the real deal!

You, the public, and fellow collectors deserve to know the fact/ statement backed TRUTH...which will give us an opportunity to make a intelligent understanding about one of the top two events in comic book history which today is  alive mainstream in pop culture worldwide!

Edited 2 hours ago by Mmehdy

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

Mitch.

People already know Kirby was a legend. People already know Ditko was a legend. People already know that Stan was a showman, an arguably undeserving recipient of credit for Spidey and other household name characters....people already know it...which is why the whole thing is overkill, and comes across as one ginormous .

Locking the stable door after the horse has bolted.

You yourself knew what you knew after all. You did, did you not write a favourable review for the book on Amazon before you even read it?   

[Prince Namor]

On 9/20/2024 at 8:39 PM, themagicrobot said:

Here is a short intermission before the "debate" continues. Back in 1983/1984 "the original writer" had regular articles and Fanzine reviews printed in Marvel UK's "The Daredevils" and "Mighty World of Marvel" (the short-lived monthly magazine not the weekly). I'm sure he's said much more interesting stuff since but it is interesting how he points to FF3 rather than a DC comic for fuelling his desire for a career in the medium . However do bear in mind that this was written in the early 1980s. Links to two pdfs below.

 

https://app.box.com/s/dyht2kieyi4w86bljwlbhm5sr8dg0186

https://app.box.com/s/z6h1xbj79iufm0w0dws02379s3zzqxs4

Thank you! I hadn't seen these before!

[Prince Namor]

On 9/20/2024 at 8:40 PM, Paul © ® ⚽️💙™ said:

!00% agree.

It's overkill and just hammering a point home over and over and over again.

How much hate is enough?

How many times can you say 'I told you so' before no-one cares anymore?

Truth = Hate?

Only to Lee apologists.

[Mmehdy]

On 9/20/2024 at 8:33 AM, Paul © ® ⚽️💙™ said:

Mitch.

People already know Kirby was a legend. People already know Ditko was a legend. People already know that Stan was a showman, an arguably undeserving recipient of credit for Spidey and other household name characters....people already know it...which is why the whole thing is overkill, and comes across as one ginormous .

Locking the stable door after the horse has bolted.

You yourself knew what you knew after all. You did, did you not write a favourable review for the book on Amazon before you even read it?   

Please read the thead...I read this book very carefully...probably twice.....I need to revise my review to make 6 stars...opps they do not allow that.....here is my point, I could tell 20% in this was a winner, a game changer, most people on the street do not know who Steve Ditko is, they do know Spiderman or that Stan Lee is a showman...the truth must come out...it has and of course there is pushback...on the spin that has been put out for 50 plus years....just because Disney wrote the checks to the next of kin...does not mean this story is going to be buried...it should of been, but for the SM..

[Prince Namor]

On 9/20/2024 at 8:56 PM, Paul © ® ⚽️💙™ said:

Absolutely correct. It just screams of bias.

Truth = Bias?

Congratulations, you're an honorary American. 

On 9/20/2024 at 8:56 PM, Paul © ® ⚽️💙™ said:

If you didn't know anything about the subject matter but wanted to learn about it and buy the book, and someone pointed you to this forum and thread, and then you read some of the comments made by the author, you could not come to any other conclusion than that the author has a personal agenda.

Yeah, the truth. That's my personal agenda. Stated numerous times.

On 9/20/2024 at 8:56 PM, Paul © ® ⚽️💙™ said:

Did he perhaps at one time send a story idea in to Stan Lee and get rejected? Did Stan then use the idea himself? 

Yep, you went straight to making it personal.

On 9/20/2024 at 8:56 PM, Paul © ® ⚽️💙™ said:

I have NEVER before seen a book promoted in this manner. It's truly mind blowing to be truthful.

I'm not promoting it to YOU. I could care less what YOU think. You had your mind made up before it was even written.

[Prince Namor]

On 9/20/2024 at 11:09 PM, Mmehdy said:

Please read the thead...I read this book very carefully...probably twice.....I need to revise my review to make 6 stars...opps they do not allow that.....here is my point, I could tell 20% in this was a winner, a game changer, most people on the street do not know who Steve Ditko is, they do know Spiderman or that Stan Lee is a showman...the truth must come out...it has and of course there is pushback...on the spin that has been put out for 50 plus years....just because Disney wrote the checks to the next of kin...does not mean this story is going to be buried...it should of been, but for the SM..

Yep. The Comic Book people always think everyone knows what THEY know.

The average person has no idea who Jack Kirby or Steve Ditko are or what their part in this was.

The truth is, these people HATE the idea that this book exists and are just trying to turn this into an arguement and muddy the waters, and paint a negative picture of ME. They keep trying to make it extremely personal in saying, "Heavens! I've never seen something promoted like this" and "Oh my God, it screams of bias" and "How much hate is enough?"

That's called 'baiting' on most forums.

Again, the biggest critics here haven't READ the book. They simply want to stir the pot. They simply want to argue semantics or say, "Why aren't you saying more about the GOOD that Stan did???"

How do you know I didn't? You haven't read the book.

I see this everyday on Facebook over this same topic. Thread crappers. Besides me, the two biggest posters in this thread are Paul and Roy, neither of which have read the book, care for me, or have anything but destructive negativity that they think they're being sneaky in how they present.

The truth is neither of them like ME, neither of them like this topic, and both have tried to flood it with posts since the beginning.

Again, I see this everyday on Facebook over this same topic.

Stir up trouble - create dissent - get the thread locked or the topic wiped.

If you don't like it, why are you here? Why is it so important to you to try and frame it - 'bias', 'hate' - to bad mouth it for others?

Now Mitch is getting grilled - HE actually has read it - but now they want to question HIM.

"Everyone KNOWS already, Mitch! There's no reason this should exist!"

They have their agenda and they're following it. Bad mouth it - make me look bad - question why.

Not a SINGLE POINT from the book brought up by either of them.

[comicwiz]

For those claiming they "already know" - I am going to say this.

It's no longer a coincidence when a fact pattern is revealed. Here, we have a Forbes article mentioning "Stolen Valor" - a quote from Christine Valada about how Houseroy swoops into to take co-creator credit as an editor. The "award nominated comic journalist and author" describes it as something "rarely if ever accorded to an editor." The remarkable timing of pulling this stunt on the heels of a Wolverine/Deadpool movie, but also after he's the last surviving member of the co-creator team, is opportunistic to say the least. 

Juxtapose this to the similarly fortuitous timing of taking credit away from Charley right before Disney releases "Star Wars: The Force Awakens" in 2015. That time, it was Funky Flashman and Houseroy on their game.

For all the "knowing" that is being thrown around as a counter-point to all the receipts being thrown in everyone's face, from as far back as 2015, why are we still seeing situations like Christine Valada having to hear about undeserved co-creator rights to someone using the EXACT same playbook as Lee? 

If this was a boardie screwing over a widow out of her husbands collection, which was compiled as their families nest egg, there would be people tripping over themselves to escort them off to the nearest exit.

If we know so much, why are we still seeing people defending their deplorable actions?

And one final point - when I started that Houseroy thread, people were actually saying that's a good thing, along with people calling it for deplorable thing it really was. It wasn't until Houseroy had the nerve to complain that he deserved main billing in the credits that people had finally waken up, and began seeing the truth.

It's one thing to know, it's another to be the voice of change and awareness to ensure what is known is acted on in a responsible manner. A forum running a Hall of Shame, inducting bad actors in the hobby is nothing but an empty gesture when the industry's littered with deplorables doing worse, and rather than recognizing their actions and calling a spade a spade - or how about a mere thanks to those bringing the receipts that help lead us to enlightment?  Nope. Instead; we see people here relegate them as misfits or rabble-rousers for seeking out the truth, and for setting things straight as far as the historical record is concerned.

Edited 11 minutes ago by comicwiz

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 9/20/2024 at 5:28 PM, Prince Namor said:

. Besides me, the two biggest posters in this thread are Paul and Roy, neither of which have read the book, care for me, or have anything but destructive negativity that they think they're being sneaky in how they present.

That's pure conjecture on your part. I have no feelings about you personally one way or the other.

I have read the sample on Amazon and I think it seems to be constructed well enough from a technical point of view.

The bottom line here is you have started a thread on a discussion forum ergo it is up for debate.

You will have supporters, you will have dissenters. It's called opinion. My opinion is not based on your writing skills, or your personality, my opinion is based on your rather aggressive agenda.  

[CGC Mike]

Whoa.  Everything was fine here this morning.  Lets keep in mind that there is a person with feelings behind their id's.  Both sides should be able to present their opinions in a respectful way.  If not, I will be forced to start banning people from the topic.  

[Jimmy Linguini]

On 9/19/2024 at 8:34 PM, CGC Mike said:

The bolded part is wrong.  Times have changed.  Moderation has changed with the times.  You have not.  I recommend that you do.  This will be my only post regarding this.

Do you ever feel like your biased and moderate based on being annoyed by other people rather than them breaking any rules of the forum?
All the best.

[CGC Mike]

On 9/20/2024 at 12:54 PM, Jimmy Linguini said:

Do you ever feel like your biased and moderate based on being annoyed by other people rather than them breaking any rules of the forum?
All the best.

No

[vheflin]

I'm starting to think Stan was self-interested.

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 9/20/2024 at 6:21 PM, vheflin said:

I'm starting to think Stan was self-interested.

He was a scamp for sure.

[Chip Cataldo]

On 9/20/2024 at 2:28 AM, mrc said:

I wish people would stop saying this. Literally no one believes Stan 'came up with everything.' It's just lazy rhetoric.

The general public does. Even if you include well-educated-in-this-area comic fans, that's far less than 1% of the people that believe Stan created everything.