Slightly Brittle Pages or Restored? 1 1

[Robot Man]

On 9/28/2024 at 6:38 AM, Sauce Dog said:

This is actually how I set possible values of my Restored/Conserved books, by making note what they were before the work and setting that as the lowest possible floor price. Are these books going to be regarded as worth 'less' when compared to a non-restored book of the same new higher grade, sure, but they will never be less than what they were before. 

My Adventure #48 above started as a Universal 1.8, so that is how much I regard it to be worth (as you can remove the work and get back to that if you like). Same with my X-Men #1, it started as an NG/0.5 pile of scraps and in order to keep things simple I set my floor value for this book to whatever the GPA is for that 0.5 grade - I'm pretty sure nobody in their right mind would argue this Conserved 2.5 is worth less than a Universal NG/0.5.

This makes perfect sense. Although I would price that X-Men #1 a bit more than 0.5. No where near 2.5 because of the restoration/conserved which I consider the same. But it is a major key and presents much better in it’s current condition.

I think a lot of perception concerning restored/conserved books changed a lot when Jon Berk’s books came to market. That, and the fact that prices on key books have risen way out of the grasp of most collectors.

I have never had much problem with resto as long as it was clearly stated by the seller. Which, prior to CGC was a major problem. 

[batman_fan]

I am stuck in that exact dilemma.  I snagged a lt tan copy with restoration because I thought it was my only chance.  No regrets.  Now another copy shows up with slightly brittle pages.  Do I go for it too?

[VintageComics]

On 9/28/2024 at 9:38 AM, Sauce Dog said:

This is actually how I set possible values of my Restored/Conserved books, by making note what they were before the work and setting that as the lowest possible floor price. Are these books going to be regarded as worth 'less' when compared to a non-restored book of the same new higher grade, sure, but they will never be less than what they were before. 

My Adventure #48 above started as a Universal 1.8, so that is how much I regard it to be worth (as you can remove the work and get back to that if you like). Same with my X-Men #1, it started as an NG/0.5 pile of scraps and in order to keep things simple I set my floor value for this book to whatever the GPA is for that 0.5 grade - I'm pretty sure nobody in their right mind would argue this Conserved 2.5 is worth less than a Universal NG/0.5.

The key to valuation for these sorts of books is documentation. The more information you have about the book, the better a potential buyer can evaluate the book and agree on value.

I like your use of the phrase "floor price". 

We've discussed FMV in other areas, and one thing that I think most will agree with is that FMV is not made up of one price point. It's a range, and in this convo the hobby needs to start realizing what baseline value a book has so that it's within the range of other comparable books. 

So your Adventure #48 should always be worth somewhere in the range of an Adventure #48 CGC 1.8 moving forward and shouldn't drop below the FMV "floor price"...the book has an intrinsic baseline value.

I know this sounds obvious to some, but I'm betting that there are lots of people who may not have seen valuations this way...if they did we wouldn't have had the resto removal cottage industry flourish the way it has.

[Sauce Dog]

On 9/28/2024 at 1:51 PM, batman_fan said:

I am stuck in that exact dilemma.  I snagged a lt tan copy with restoration because I thought it was my only chance.  No regrets.  Now another copy shows up with slightly brittle pages.  Do I go for it too?

I honestly prefer your restored copy to this one, and since they are so close already visually you are just paying to get a blue label and far worse page quality (so in my mind I consider the 6.0 a clear downgrade) - If anything I would suggest regrading your copy, as since it is A-1 restoration (aka "professionally done and slight in nature") it should qualify for the Conserved label - so you'll upgrade the label to quasi-universal status anyways, have better page quality, and possibly also get a grade bump (if the stars align and maybe give it another press to be safe)

[batman_fan]

On 9/28/2024 at 12:09 PM, Sauce Dog said:

I honestly prefer your restored copy to this one, and since they are so close already visually you are just paying to get a blue label and far worse page quality (so in my mind I consider the 6.0 a clear downgrade) - If anything I would suggest regrading your copy, as since it is A-1 restoration (aka "professionally done and slight in nature") it should qualify for the Conserved label - so you'll upgrade the label to quasi-universal status anyways, have better page quality, and possibly also get a grade bump (if the stars align and maybe give it another press to be safe)

Oh, I would keep both 

[jimbo_7071]

On 9/24/2024 at 1:34 PM, VintageComics said:

For some books you have no choice, and future generations will eventually have no choice. The acid is in the paper and there's no way of stopping it's degradation. You can only slow it down. 

For rare, irreplaceable books like Motion Pictures Funnies Weekly #1, every known copy is brittle except for the restored ones, and they will HAVE to be restored at some point to preserve them. 

The Pay Copy isn't brittle or restored, is it? (I could be remembering wrong.)

[jimbo_7071]

Brittleness is a deal breaker—full stop.

Restoration is close to a deal-breaker, but there are some things I could live with.

[VintageComics]

On 10/13/2024 at 3:39 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

The Pay Copy isn't brittle or restored, is it? (I could be remembering wrong.)

Good question. I'd forgotten about that copy. Was it found with the rest at the same time, or was it found separately?

If it was found with the rest of the copies, it could be on it's way as to my recollection most if not all the MPFW #1 were either brittle or restored.

EDIT: Just read the description for this copy and it seems the pay copy was found separately. Incidentally, this copy isn't brown but it's Light Tan to Off White. 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/superhero/motion-picture-funnies-weekly-1-first-funnies-inc-1939-cgc-fn-vf-70-light-tan-to-off-white-pages-featuring-the-first-printed/a/803-5194.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

If I had to guess, I'd say the Pay Copy too would eventually need to be conserved. 

Does anyone know if it sold since Heritage sold it in 2005?

[jimbo_7071]

On 10/13/2024 at 2:18 PM, VintageComics said:

Good question. I'd forgotten about that copy. Was it found with the rest at the same time, or was it found separately?

If it was found with the rest of the copies, it could be on it's way as to my recollection most if not all the MPFW #1 were either brittle or restored.

EDIT: Just read the description for this copy and it seems the pay copy was found separately. Incidentally, this copy isn't brown but it's Light Tan to Off White. 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/superhero/motion-picture-funnies-weekly-1-first-funnies-inc-1939-cgc-fn-vf-70-light-tan-to-off-white-pages-featuring-the-first-printed/a/803-5194.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

If I had to guess, I'd say the Pay Copy too would eventually need to be conserved. 

Does anyone know if it sold since Heritage sold it in 2005?

In a previous post, someone said that Steve Geppi had bought it. It has C/OW pages (which could be OW by current standards).

Edited Sunday at 06:43 PM by jimbo_7071

[BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES]

On 10/13/2024 at 3:42 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

Brittleness is a deal breaker—full stop.

Restoration is close to a deal-breaker, but there are some things I could live with.

If you come across a brittle restored copy of the Shakespeare First Folio, let me know and I will trade you a stack of unrestored white page, mint comics

Edited Sunday at 09:28 PM by BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES

[jimbo_7071]

On 10/13/2024 at 5:28 PM, BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES said:

If you come across a brittle restored copy of the Shakespeare First Folio, let me know and I will trade you a stack of unrestored white page, mint comics

Your total inability to comprehend opposing views fascinates me.

[BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES]

On 10/13/2024 at 2:47 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

Your total inability to comprehend opposing views fascinates me.

I comprehend the pattern completely.  The proposed trade is simply taking it to its extreme as a joke. I don't really think you would go that far. But I've encountered people who have taken it much further than I would've thought. And perhaps even further than you might have thought.

Edited Monday at 12:36 AM by BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES

[southern cross]

It depends on the price, everything has a price.

I think this is the most brittle book in my collection.

I traded this for the Tec

X-Men graded at 4.5 and I've still got another copy.

And I can always buy a copy of 94.

Just thought it would be fun owning a pre Batman Detective 

Edited 9 hours ago by southern cross