Heritage Auction and Restored GA comics

[FFB]

.That fine 6.0 Detective 27 with slight resto in Heritages next auction will be a very good example.If that book was a totally unrestored 6.0 it would probably go for 145k to 160k

 

Hi men.

Ive been away on vacation so i was not able to explain.Yes indeed Detective Comics #27 in fine[unrestored] has a book value is 95k ,but the Overstreet price does not reflect the RARITY of a totally unrestored Detective #27 if fine 6.0.This book would be in the top 5 copies[of all copies] not just cgc.With only 5 copies graded over 6.0 unrestored that would list the book as [rare] ajusted for condition.

This is no secret to the market and would thus reflect a price well over book value.

I did not base my restored price on the unrestored book value.I based the restored price on the premium an unrestored 6.0 would get and worked from that figure as i feel Overstreets unrestored price is well off reality that the market would bare.Taking a look at the book carefully at Heritages site however i do feel that the book will come in at 35 to 55k.I do believe i overshot the estimate the first time around without taking a careful look at the book.I dont think that [slight resto disignation is going to save the book]It has spine splitS sealed and the cover and centerfold re-enforced]That really sounds like more than [slight].. One mans slight is another mans moderate.The price will dictate who is correct.

 

Happy New Year

 

If an unrestored 6.0 is worth $145K-$160K, then what's the Allentown copy worth?

[Aman619]

pick a number! I wonder if Parrino ever made a similar offer for it on a par as his Action 1 offer?

[action1kid]

If an unrestored 6.0 is worth $145K-$160K, then what's the Allentown copy worth?

 

A Detective comics #27 IN 9.4 TO 9.6? Yea, its a million dollar book plus, in that grade.Are there guys who can shell that out? There sure are.

[action1kid]

I believe the Allentown Tec #27 is a higher grade than the Church Action #1.

I believe Mr Fishler has seen both books.He can verify this statement.

[FFB]

I believe the Allentown Tec #27 is a higher grade than the Church Action #1.

I believe Mr Fishler has seen both books.He can verify this statement.

 

The rumors I've heard are more or less the same. I've heard that the Allentown Detective #27 is a 9.4/9.6 and I've heard (from Fishler) that the Church Action #1 would be in a 9.2 holder if it were to be certified and (from Borock) that if certified, the Church Action #1 would grade out "somewhere between 9.0 and 9.6."

 

Of course, when you're talking about the best copy of Action #1 and the best copy of Detective #27, does it really matter whether the Detective #27 is .2 higher in grade? Isn't the Action #1 still more valuable?

[action1kid]

I remember reading a statement by Steve Borock that he had seen the Church Action #1 years ago and that it blew away the cgc 8.5 copy.I believe that was the quote.

[FFB]

I remember reading a statement by Steve Borock that he had seen the Church Action #1 years ago and that it blew away the cgc 8.5 copy.I believe that was the quote.

 

It's all right here in this thread. He also says it would grade out with AT LEAST a 9.0-9.4.

[EJR]

Wish I could afford the Detective #35 even with the slight restoration that it has! It makes books like that alot more affordable for us non-millionaire types!

[tth2]

Maybe most of the Marvels are relatively plentiful in 9.4 or better, post 1966, but I know from experience there are more then a handful of DC's, not to mention Charlton's and a few other smaller publishers, that are legitimently tough to get in high grade up into the early 70's.

I was just basing my cut-off dates on Marvel and DC. 2nd and 3rd tier publishers like Charlton, GK, Fawcett, Archie, etc., can be much much harder to find in HG. I'm curious which late SA and early BA DC superhero issues you consider to be extremely hard to find in high grade.

 

And that is just mainstream, trying to put together a late SA, early BA high grade collection of DC romance is next to impossible, and the late 60's DC horror books are not to far behind in that respect.

The non-mainstream titles will always be harder to find in HG. Romance books are always notoriously hard to find. I used to think DC horror were hard to find, but the high prices being paid certainly seem to have driven a lot of copies out of the woodwork. Anyways, I'm not sure I would say that the existence of a small niche of hard-to-find comics justifies all collections being eligible to be pedigrees up to 1970-71. Perhaps if a collection contained an extraordinarily large number of HG "oddball" books (horror, romance, non-Marvel/DC publishers), then perhaps an exception could be made for that particular collection.

[Thegoldenage]

Also,as additional support for an estimate 0f 35 to 55k remember, that 9.2 tec 27[restored] is still sitting on Metros site for 77k.

 

The tec 27 on Metro's site is ridiculously overpriced (as is the Action 1), and shouldn't be used for comparison to any other tec 27. I agree with you that the one on Heritage will end up somewhere in the very wide range of 35-55k.

[action1kid]

Also,as additional support for an estimate 0f 35 to 55k remember, that 9.2 tec 27[restored] is still sitting on Metros site for 77k.

 

My main point for bringing this up is that i do not see restored books making a comeback.Slight.Moderate or extensive.Im looking at the results[not the talk]

Its unsupported.

[LearnedHand]

You've collapsed comments from two different authors. As soon as I figure out how to post scans, I may post a few.

 

I was not the person that said that Lane Carter told me about pallet loads of GA books being brought into the SD show - that was Thegoldenage. Lane never made this comment to me.

 

LH

[adamstrange]

You've collapsed comments from two different authors. As soon as I figure out how to post scans, I may post a few.

 

I was not the person that said that Lane Carter told me about pallet loads of GA books being brought into the SD show - that was Thegoldenage. Lane never made this comment to me.

 

LH

 

 

Looking forward to the scans!!!

[jkrk]

Taking a look at the book carefully at Heritages site however i do feel that the book will come in at 35 to 55k.

 

 

I never pay attention to the final price unless the reserve is met. If the book's final bid is relatively high bid but doesn't meet the reserve then I believe it's safe to assume the seller is the main bidder.

[Aman619]

more likely its the bump up to the final bid under the reserve.

[burntboy]

thanx. never knew or forgot the origin of Metro's #1 Collection.

 

boy no good deed goes unpunished huh? Mark gave the guy the Guide and in return he shopped it to another dealer? I guess the guy didnt realize how scummy this business is to not see what an upright gesture that was by Mark to NOT just do a Chuckie on him. That kind of honesty should have been repaid with serious negotiation leading to a higher price, not cutting Mark out of the deal. Course I wasnt there so I dont know what else went on.

 

Why would you say "do a Chuckie on him"? Chuck brought the Churches a copy of the current Overstreet guide when he viewed the collection.

 

According to whom?

 

I've never seen anyone with first-hand knowledge of the situation say any different.

 

I also remember earlier last year that people were talking on the boards about some supposed lawsuit filed by the Church heirs against Chuck. You may remember it. Everyone on the boards "knew" about the lawsuit and several people actually talked about it as though it was a fact. But then we found out there never was any such lawsuit and that certain members of fandom had made up the entire thing to demonize Chuck.

 

Chuck may be an annoying, narcissistic self-promoter with high prices, but I don't think that makes him evil or necessarily means that he ripped off the Churches by hiding the value of the books from them.

All perhaps true, but the fact that he might not be evil doesn`t mean his every word is gospel truth either, or should be represented as such. My suggestion would be that rather than simply stating as a fact that "Chuck brought the Churches a copy of the current Overstreet guide when he viewed the collection", you say something like "According to Chuck, he..." or "Chuck allegedly brought...".

 

always fun to see Scott and Tim go at it, especially when the "discussion" deteriorates to english usage, etc.................

 

but here's my "thoughts" on the Price Guide issue that spurred on this latest debate; since Chuck listed the remaining 80% of the collection into one master list back in 1977, i'll use the 1976 Guide (the first that i personally purchased -although i have all of the others) to illustrate a point.

 

it's my understanding that the sale price was approx $2000 for approx 22,000 books. based on many discussions about the Action #1, i think we can assume that it would have been perceived to be a "Mint" book 30 years ago. that single book in "Good" grade guided for more than the entire collection's purchase price.

the first 10 issues of Action comics Guided for almost $10,000 in Mint. the first 10 issues of Whiz were almost as valuable. the Tec's from 27 to 38 almost as valuable as the Whiz. the 1st 10 Marvel Mysteries were even more valuable than the Actions.

 

and then there were another 21,958 gorgeous comics. i mean nothing was worth less than a few bucks probably. so what did the Churches DO with that guide??

they sure didn't look at it................IMHO.

 

has anyone ever estimated the guide value at the time they were sold???

[burntboy]

oh, and let me cast my vote for whether there will ever be another 22,000 different book, Super HG, Original Owner, GA collection ever discovered - NO

[FFB]

thanx. never knew or forgot the origin of Metro's #1 Collection.

 

boy no good deed goes unpunished huh? Mark gave the guy the Guide and in return he shopped it to another dealer? I guess the guy didnt realize how scummy this business is to not see what an upright gesture that was by Mark to NOT just do a Chuckie on him. That kind of honesty should have been repaid with serious negotiation leading to a higher price, not cutting Mark out of the deal. Course I wasnt there so I dont know what else went on.

 

Why would you say "do a Chuckie on him"? Chuck brought the Churches a copy of the current Overstreet guide when he viewed the collection.

 

According to whom?

 

I've never seen anyone with first-hand knowledge of the situation say any different.

 

I also remember earlier last year that people were talking on the boards about some supposed lawsuit filed by the Church heirs against Chuck. You may remember it. Everyone on the boards "knew" about the lawsuit and several people actually talked about it as though it was a fact. But then we found out there never was any such lawsuit and that certain members of fandom had made up the entire thing to demonize Chuck.

 

Chuck may be an annoying, narcissistic self-promoter with high prices, but I don't think that makes him evil or necessarily means that he ripped off the Churches by hiding the value of the books from them.

All perhaps true, but the fact that he might not be evil doesn`t mean his every word is gospel truth either, or should be represented as such. My suggestion would be that rather than simply stating as a fact that "Chuck brought the Churches a copy of the current Overstreet guide when he viewed the collection", you say something like "According to Chuck, he..." or "Chuck allegedly brought...".

 

always fun to see Scott and Tim go at it, especially when the "discussion" deteriorates to english usage, etc.................

 

but here's my "thoughts" on the Price Guide issue that spurred on this latest debate; since Chuck listed the remaining 80% of the collection into one master list back in 1977, i'll use the 1976 Guide (the first that i personally purchased -although i have all of the others) to illustrate a point.

 

it's my understanding that the sale price was approx $2000 for approx 22,000 books. based on many discussions about the Action #1, i think we can assume that it would have been perceived to be a "Mint" book 30 years ago. that single book in "Good" grade guided for more than the entire collection's purchase price.

the first 10 issues of Action comics Guided for almost $10,000 in Mint. the first 10 issues of Whiz were almost as valuable. the Tec's from 27 to 38 almost as valuable as the Whiz. the 1st 10 Marvel Mysteries were even more valuable than the Actions.

 

and then there were another 21,958 gorgeous comics. i mean nothing was worth less than a few bucks probably. so what did the Churches DO with that guide??

they sure didn't look at it................IMHO.

 

has anyone ever estimated the guide value at the time they were sold???

 

According to lore and legend, Chuck said that he showed them the guide at the beginning while he was looking at the cheaper 1950s books that were outside the closet on the floor. According to lore and legend, Chuck told them that he didn't have enough money to pay a percentage of guide for all the books, but that he could sell the books on consignment and they refused because they didn't want anything to do with the sales process. According to lore and legend, the Churches didn't want to look at the guide and weren't interested in what the books were worth. According to lore and legend, the Churches considered them junk and wanted them out of the house so they could sell the house before local property values dropped because of the influx of Hispanic families into the area. According to lore and legend, Chuck made them an offer on a "price per chicken fryer box full of comics" basis. According to lore and legend, once Chuck opened the closet and found all of the "good" books, Chuck already had a price-per-chicken-fryer-box set and he just didn't bid against himself. According to lore and legend, Chuck didn't have nearly enough money to pay a true, meaningful percentage of what the collection was worth and would have had to pass on the bulk of the collection if he had insisted on paying them 50% of guide.

 

According to lore and legend, one of the people on there boards contacted Church's heirs a couple years ago to try to talk to them to get their side. According to lore and legend, neither the son nor the daughter ever bothered to respond.

 

For what it's worth, this version of events does not strike me as implausible. People still, to this day, sell comic book collections for a fraction of their true values, oftentimes even when they've been shown a price guide. Back in the 1970s, when comic book collecting was not as well known or high profile a hobby among the general public, I could totally see someone like the Churches focusing more on getting the house cleaned up and less on getting max value for something like the comics that they viewed as so much junk anyway.

[lotemo]

... Back in the 1970s, when comic book collecting was not as well known or high profile a hobby among the general public, I could totally see someone like the Churches focusing more on getting the house cleaned up and less on getting max value for something like the comics that they viewed as so much junk anyway.

 

This has always seemed plausible to me as well. It's important to remember that had Chuck not purchased and promoted this collection as something outstanding, these books would have just been disbursed to collectors and their legacy would have been lost, or they might have just been destroyed. The past 30 years have made these books legendary. At the time they were purchased, they were just an annoying load of comic books cluttering up someone's basement.

[burntboy]

... Back in the 1970s, when comic book collecting was not as well known or high profile a hobby among the general public, I could totally see someone like the Churches focusing more on getting the house cleaned up and less on getting max value for something like the comics that they viewed as so much junk anyway.

 

This has always seemed plausible to me as well. It's important to remember that had Chuck not purchased and promoted this collection as something outstanding, these books would have just been disbursed to collectors and their legacy would have been lost, or they might have just been destroyed. The past 30 years have made these books legendary. At the time they were purchased, they were just an annoying load of comic books cluttering up someone's basement.

 

Uh, you forgot to say "according to lore and legend"........

 

i appreciate Chuck's role in bringing the collection to light - i just had a wee problem with the concept of a family accepting virtually nothing (as compared to even guide value) for the collection despite having been given/shown an OS Guide.

 

i still have some sympathy for the family who let a fortune slip through their fingers, despite their apparent mean-spirited approach to things...........i mean, the collection could rightly be worth somewhere between 25 - 100 million bucks just thirty years later.............