Results Of My Grading Comparison Test Between CGC and PGX

[kahml]

I had sent several books to CGG more than a year ago. I just dug up a copy of Uncanny X-Men 181 that they had graded as 8.5 with White pages.

 

I cracked the slab to take a look, figuring it could probably garner at least a 9.0 from CGC. Well, that's not going to happen:

 

> The pages are Off-white to white. Honestly, I don't recall if that was the case before the book was encapsulated. It was nice to find the 5.5 x 8.5 pieces of microchamber paper two pages into the front and back portion of the book

 

> There's a small curl on the ULC of the back cover, which I don't think was there when I submitted the book.

 

> Two pages have a 1 inch tear along the outer edge near the top of the page. And I know I would not have submitted a book for grading that had an obvious problem. However, they look like production defects because of the extra paper folded above the tear.

 

Oh well, from 8.5 down to 4.5 before it even gets back out of the house...

 

Now, should I even bother to open Uncanny X-Men 248 that's 9.2?!?

 

Larry

[jduran1]

Your sample isn't statistically valid to make those assumptions. CGC grades tougher and catches restoration in my opinion.

 

PGX has a different grading scale that doesn't reflect the consensus of overstreet and our industry in general.

 

I wish we had one universal grading metric that everyone followed. Overstreet, CGC, PGX and 2 or 3 of our top forum grading experts should put a task force together and come up with grading benchmarks. Wouldn't that be utopia or what. They could jointly publish a book. It would sell a million copies at 15 bucks each and gross 15 million dollars. Nothing wrong with that.

[awe4one]

It's on ebay for $25,000. The exact same book sold last summer on ebay for about $9500. Nice to see the new owner is not being too greedy.

 

This is the same seller...

 

Jim

[dekeuk]

It's on ebay for $25,000. The exact same book sold last summer on ebay for about $9500. Nice to see the new owner is not being too greedy.

 

This is the same seller...

 

Jim

 

So now he figures it is worth 3 times what it was 6 months ago?

[Sal]

if it's Terence Leder selling it, your 9.4 actually is probably a better copy, given his history. hell, it's just as likely to be a PLOD as anything else...

 

 

i wouldn't buy that book for five hundred bucks. personally

[grider67]

There is currently a big gastro-enteritis epidemic here in France, can i have your toilet paper please

 

I'll send you a case ASAP osborn !

[Scheradon]

I find it interesting that if you look at eBays selection of PGX 9.9 you will find that one seller has 102 out of the 121 books listed. I don't know how they compare on lower slabs but when it comes to highest grade in the world types, I get a little suspect as many of these PGX 9.9s have no cgc 9.9 counterparts with many more submitted to cgc. Just makes me catious. I've trusted CGC a lot and they have their own can of worms going on lately...and this company is even newer, what will come to light on them in a couple of years.

[ComicSupply]

I sold a PGX 9.9 and it didn't even go for the same amount as a CGC 9.8

 

Sadly, I do not think the FMV's will ever catch CGC's nor do I expect serious buyers to take a PGX slab seriously.

[Scheradon]

I sold a PGX 9.9 and it didn't even go for the same amount as a CGC 9.8

 

Sadly, I do not think the FMV's will ever catch CGC's nor do I expect serious buyers to take a PGX slab seriously.

 

That's the same trend I see. I mostly buy HG bronze books and while I can't find any cgc 9.9s on eBay right now, I can find a bunch of 70's PGX 9.9s there. Furthermore, it's logical to think that with the thousands of more books that have been graded by cgc, there should be more cgc 9.9s than PGX 9.9s on eBay at any given time and that also is not the case.

 

I'm just waiting for the flood of grading companies to start, much like they did with sportscards. I've got some 10.0 cards that I can't get squat for because they're graded by some unknown company, but if they were in a PSA holder, that would be a different story.

[dekeuk]

I sold a PGX 9.9 and it didn't even go for the same amount as a CGC 9.8

 

Sadly, I do not think the FMV's will ever catch CGC's nor do I expect serious buyers to take a PGX slab seriously.

 

I cannot believe I did not get one single 9.9 out of the 110 comics I submitted to PGX for pre-screening. There were at least 30 comics I prescreened for 9.8, all 1986-1995 Spiderman issues. Each one looked PERFECT MINT to me, otherwise I would not have been pre-screening it for 9.8

 

So if I cannot get one single 9.9 on early 1990s comics, how is it that they can justify giving out 9.9 grades to stuff from the 1970s. It just does not make any logical sense. Is that X-men GS #1 really in better shape than all 30 Spiderman comics I submitted? I highly doubt it.

[BassGMan]

I sold a PGX 9.9 and it didn't even go for the same amount as a CGC 9.8

 

Sadly, I do not think the FMV's will ever catch CGC's nor do I expect serious buyers to take a PGX slab seriously.

 

I cannot believe I did not get one single 9.9 out of the 110 comics I submitted to PGX for pre-screening. There were at least 30 comics I prescreened for 9.8, all 1986-1995 Spiderman issues. Each one looked PERFECT MINT to me, otherwise I would not have been pre-screening it for 9.8

 

So if I cannot get one single 9.9 on early 1990s comics, how is it that they can justify giving out 9.9 grades to stuff from the 1970s. It just does not make any logical sense. Is that X-men GS #1 really in better shape than all 30 Spiderman comics I submitted? I highly doubt it.

 

Certainly there is something mysterious about all the PGX 9.9s coming from one specific seller (I assume that is Terence Leder we are talking about?) but depending on which side of the coin you are on, the fact that many serious buyers don't take PGX slabs seriously, that can be a good thing. Sure, their resto detection skills are not as good as CGC (although neither is perfect) but I imagine that the vast majority of PGX graded books are graded reasonably accurately with proper labels. So if most of these legitimate books are passed on by serious collectors, there must be some great deals out there in PGX slabs.

[ComicSupply]

I sold a PGX 9.9 and it didn't even go for the same amount as a CGC 9.8

 

Sadly, I do not think the FMV's will ever catch CGC's nor do I expect serious buyers to take a PGX slab seriously.

 

I cannot believe I did not get one single 9.9 out of the 110 comics I submitted to PGX for pre-screening. There were at least 30 comics I prescreened for 9.8, all 1986-1995 Spiderman issues. Each one looked PERFECT MINT to me, otherwise I would not have been pre-screening it for 9.8

 

So if I cannot get one single 9.9 on early 1990s comics, how is it that they can justify giving out 9.9 grades to stuff from the 1970s. It just does not make any logical sense. Is that X-men GS #1 really in better shape than all 30 Spiderman comics I submitted? I highly doubt it.

 

What was a shock to me was that in my first submission to them I got back 2 10's, 1 9.9 and 2 9.8's.

 

The 10's and 9.9's were on Killing Jokes which is an easy book to get those grades on.

 

The 9.8's were on Giant Size Spider-Mans which I was happy with, but after trying to sell them on eBay soon realized they had to make the trip to CGC to get any decent money for them.

[Scheradon]

I sold a PGX 9.9 and it didn't even go for the same amount as a CGC 9.8

 

Sadly, I do not think the FMV's will ever catch CGC's nor do I expect serious buyers to take a PGX slab seriously.

 

I cannot believe I did not get one single 9.9 out of the 110 comics I submitted to PGX for pre-screening. There were at least 30 comics I prescreened for 9.8, all 1986-1995 Spiderman issues. Each one looked PERFECT MINT to me, otherwise I would not have been pre-screening it for 9.8

 

So if I cannot get one single 9.9 on early 1990s comics, how is it that they can justify giving out 9.9 grades to stuff from the 1970s. It just does not make any logical sense. Is that X-men GS #1 really in better shape than all 30 Spiderman comics I submitted? I highly doubt it.

 

Certainly there is something mysterious about all the PGX 9.9s coming from one specific seller (I assume that is Terence Leder we are talking about?) but depending on which side of the coin you are on, the fact that many serious buyers don't take PGX slabs seriously, that can be a good thing. Sure, their resto detection skills are not as good as CGC (although neither is perfect) but I imagine that the vast majority of PGX graded books are graded reasonably accurately with proper labels. So if most of these legitimate books are passed on by serious collectors, there must be some great deals out there in PGX slabs.

 

The one seller with the PGX 9.9 monopoly is Reynold Jay. I remember when the company started (it was CCG I think back then), he was a big pusher for their service. He tried to convince me to go with them over CGC cause they were cheaper. I never bought into the new company and still don't (atleast yet). But don't expect any good deals, his prices are stout with no best offer options, whether it's his CGC or PGX comics.

[grider67]

The one seller with the PGX 9.9 monopoly is Reynold Jay. I remember when the company started (it was CCG I think back then), he was a big pusher for their service. He tried to convince me to go with them over CGC cause they were cheaper. I never bought into the new company and still don't (atleast yet). But don't expect any good deals, his prices are stout with no best offer options, whether it's his CGC or PGX comics.

 

This is true (about Reynold Jay). They have CGC 9.8 New Teen Titans (Perez & Wolfman) #'s in the 20s to the 50s for $79.99 to $89.99. They will not budge.

[Mr. Zipper]

Adventure 327?------------------8.5-------------------------------------------9.4

House of Mystery 166-----------8.5-------------------------------------------9.4

House of Mystery 171-----------9.0-------------------------------------------9.4

Iron Fist 14-----------------------8.5-------------------------------------------9.2

 

This has been my experience as well on numerous books.

 

I will buy Bronze PGX 8.5s and 9.0s all day long. Very often, they are equivalent to CGC 9.2/9.4s.

[ComicSupply]

Bah... my PGX 9.0 went to CGC 8.5

[Comicdey]

Bah... my PGX 9.0 went to CGC 8.5

 

Mine went from an 8.5 to a 9.0.......

 

They must have known you were a dealer trying to upgrade and flip a book.

[ComicSupply]

Bah... my PGX 9.0 went to CGC 8.5

 

Mine went from an 8.5 to a 9.0.......

 

They must have known you were a dealer trying to upgrade and flip a book.

 

Damn, does that mean my 9.8 PGX is going to come back a 9.2... Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Mushroom]

I'm still not convinced that the staff at PGX can catch all restoration...at least they miss it far more than CGC.

 

Based on what evidence.......

 

Personally, I've had two books submitted to CGC that were PGX blue labels (1st book PGX 4.0, CGC 4.0 Mod Am; 2nd book PGX 5.0, CGC 4.5 Slight Am) that came back with moderate amateur and slight amateur restoration. I was initially hoping to get them in a higher grade, and I've known quite a few people that have had similar results. I've not read or heard anything from them that has told me that they have taken any steps to "beef up" their resto checks. Granted, it's not a huge sample but I'm still not convinced.

 

The other problem I've seen quite frequently is their page quality. They are way too liberal with "white" and "off white" page denotations, IMO. Both of those resto books I received had "white pages" per PGX and one came back "off white" and the other "off white to white" from CGC. Not a huge difference, but a difference nonetheless.

 

Doesn't seem to be the basis of an accurate assessment. The reason I say this is that people keep trotting out generalisms and personal prejudices as the foundation of an in depth comparison of the two companies. This is no better than Borock fobbing every CGC stuff up by stating that it is just the anti CGC'ers, the doomsayers, the conspirators etc etc that are just beating these minor issues into something more than they are.

 

Personally I wouldn't rely on either of the grading companies when it comes to resto anymore.

[toro]

Adventure 327?------------------8.5-------------------------------------------9.4

House of Mystery 166-----------8.5-------------------------------------------9.4

House of Mystery 171-----------9.0-------------------------------------------9.4

Iron Fist 14-----------------------8.5-------------------------------------------9.2

 

This has been my experience as well on numerous books.

 

I will buy Bronze PGX 8.5s and 9.0s all day long. Very often, they are equivalent to CGC 9.2/9.4s.

 

We have probably been in a few bidding wars over some books!