RESTORED COMICS..WHATS ALL THE HYPE ABOUT??

[ablue]

Hi, I had been collecting comics especially golden age since 1985 and just recently got back into the hobby after some years.

I noticed that there is alot of talk of how bad restored comics are, it's almost a taboo.

Eventually all golden books will have to be restored because of the natural elements even high priced paintings are restored or cleaned and there is not a problem with that.

I understand that a heavy restored book with many chunks replaced is not as nice as an original but it still is what it is they are still rare(I agree these should be priced differently)..

I don't see an original book say from the golden age having a cover cleaned is a big deal whats wrong with that?? nothing had been altered, fixed, repaired, or painted yet everyone seems to think this book should be priced less why??

I noticed that CGC grades some books with glue unrestored or some with minor touch up unrestored. I think when the slightest color touch is noticed it should be a restored book because the intent was to enhance the book yet some get away with the PURPLE grade and that is not fair.

I read on mile high's web that Chuck does not agree with the changes in the grading policy and that is 100% true! how can a company come in and start changing everything around when collectors have relied on a certain formula to grade books for over thity years. All of a sudden that is not good anymore and the people who did grade by overstreets policy is now in the hole because a vf book is now a fine book due to the new policy do you realize the lost $$$'S collectors are suffering now??NOT FAIR...I guess that's why Nic Cage is getting out of the hobby!

Sorry but I had express my views

Thanks!

 

 

[murph0]

I'm sure a lot of people with pressed covers would love to sell you some books at full guide price..too bad no1 will pay you close to that if you attempt to sell them..restoration has always been a "devaluer" in the case of the restored grade. If you restore something you will almost never get the full regular price.

 

Brian

[fantastic_four]

Restoration itself is not a problem, it's the fact that people are taking $500 comics that are already almost Near Mint and slightly restoring them to look like NM or better comics that are worth 2 to 20 times their unrestored amount. People are doing this purely for profit, not to rescue old and damaged comics. The slight-restoring crooks have given restoration as a whole a bad name.

 

Until somebody writes a good book to help us all learn restoration detection and we've all had a decade or so to learn those skills, the restored comics market will continue to flounder.

[PovertyRow]

No idea why this appeared as blank but it is a blank message - see the next one.

[PovertyRow]

it's the fact that people are taking $500 comics that are already almost Near Mint and slightly restoring them to look like NM or better comics that are worth 2 to 20 times their unrestored amount.

 

Sounds about right. ANy restorer worth their body chemicals will tell them that such a book should not be restored. And I know a couple that do.

[aardvark88]

Blue, I agree w/ u 100% that collectors w/ silver or gold that has been cleaned & pressed w/ orig staples, no color touch, no Japanese paper reinforcement, no paper mending/fill in have been ROYALLY screwed by cgc's purple label. Light spine roll pressed out. What's wrong w/ that? Does it really justify some collector/dealers liquidating their bks for 1/2 to 75% off condition guide for a clean & press?? I think it is NONSENSE, but that is the current reality of the internet auction mkt.

[ablue]

Hi Brian.

Why is it then when a classic car is restored it is ok?

If I had a mint classic in my garage for 50 years and it was mint but dirty and I took a buffer to it would it change the value?

No it would not.

cleaning a cover to remove a potential hazzard to the books paper is not altering the book in any way.

But if I soak a book in water and then let it dry it is ok but will get a grade of water damaged book but UN-RESTORED.

I think by passing up these books people are passing up on potential gold mines.

One day in the near future when this restoration craze dies down people will kick themselves for passing on a huge opportunity.

As this will be accepted.

[murph0]

Actually it's not "ok" for a car to be restored..it dramatically knocks down the value of the car unless its a real rarity in any condition. Just like comics.

 

Brian

[ablue]

Hi.

I am a car collector also. Its the norm to restoe cars so I don't know what you meen by it's not ok as it totally is.

almost every car that is collectable has been restored and gains value.

Why are restored chevys,mustangs,boss,ect in super demand?

You also mentioned unless they are rare, well are golden books not rare??

especially some issues?

[ablue]

I also noticed you are a student so you realy have almost no expierience out there

regarding what is accepted you are only assuming.

No offence but you only know what has been currently established as "what is accepted" You have not been around long enough to learn what it realy means to collect it's not just to make a fast buck but it is to enjoy the thrill of having that issue or any collectable you are looking for.

The $$ should be enjoyed last.

Honestly you are not in the position to judge what is accepted and not is not.

The only reason why I am saying this is because I was shocked when you mentioned that it was not OK to restore cars which is the only way to go.

By the way I own a Captain America #1.

[comicinvestor-migration]

I am a car collector also. Its the norm to restoe cars so I don't know what you meen by it's not ok as it totally is. almost every car that is collectable has been restored and gains value.

 

That depends on what you consider resto. To use the comic analogy, much of the resto we see is similar to taking a near-perfect, fully-original classic car and then fiber-glassing the body, re-painting and basically replacing even with smallest defect with a non-original part.

 

Then you have a car that has went from a 90% gem to a 50/50 Cyborg-mobile that looks like it just came off the assembly line. I'll tell you here and now, if all the cards are on the table, the first car is worth exponentially more money.

[murph0]

Hi one major thing that you may want to learn before you run your mouth a little too much is to never assume...you assume I know nothing about cars due to my age..yet I OWN a 69 Camaro SS. Also, I have worked with a local car collector to attempt to buy other nice old cars. I hope to some day own a 60's Shelby Mustang GT. And if you had read what I said you'd realize that I am saying a completely original car is worth much more then a car that is restored or has parts from other cars. But thanks for telling me what _I_ do and do not know..it's good to know that someone else knows more about me than I do. Also, my dad has collected cars for years, so if you'd like to play "whos is bigger" I'm sure it'll be a whole lot closer then you think despite me "knowing nothing".

 

Brian

[murph0]

Here's a decent example of a nice restored book that is going for a "too low" price. I'd guess this would be a pretty good pick up for people who don't really care about restoration..(btw it's at 500 dollars as I write this, so who knows if it'll get bid up to the point of "nevermind")

 

Brian

[murph0]

And this post would contain the link, I guess...http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=719994148

 

Brian

[MonumentalCo]

Restoration has been looked down upon, because many collectors want comics in high grade unrestored condition. Some coin collectors do not want coins that have been "cleaned".

 

One of the main problems with restoration is the lack of being able to identify it. Numerous times restored comics are sold without the reports explaining the restoration. This is not always due to the seller trying to hide something. I have bought many restored books that had changed hands a number of times. Sadly, sometimes the person who had the book restored honestly lost the paperwork. This then leaves the books as being a known restored book, but without the restoration report. Restored books are nice if you are looking for a specific comic and you do not want to break the bank on a high grade unrestored copy. Restoration is also good if you have a nice low grade copy that would be better preserved if it were restored. Had a comic once with a tear down half the spine and it would have otherwise been a VG+. I would have left the book alone, but you could not easily handle the book. The spine tear would have eventually become worse. This example is a good case for restoration.

 

Restoration of comics needs to be looked at for what it is. It should also be broken down into two categories of work. Professional and Amateur restoration. Anyone would pay more for a comic that has been Professionally restored Vs Amateur. Perhaps we will see this change take effect in the hobby. If anyone is looking for more information on comic restoration check out the following site. Classic Conservations

 

[ablue]

Brian I am not running my mouth off.

Actually You did not mention an unrestored car is worth more than a restored car.

You said "Actually it's not "ok" for a car to be restored..it dramatically knocks down the value of the car unless its a real rarity in any condition"

Where does it say UNRESTORED CAR??

It's nice to own all these items at your age plus it helps that dad has the big bucks

it takes it much more easy to get what you want.

You have to realize down the road you will notice that you actually did not know everything there is to know as you seem to think. it takes maturaty and expierience to fully understand something ther is always a growing process of learning at any age .

I am not putting you down and I am not telling you what you know and don't know

all I am saying you have not been around long enough to appreciate the true value of a collectable. It's not only what dollar value it has attached to it but having that certain something you realy wanted as a collectable is truly priceless.

The only reason why even the slightest cleaned book is not accepted is because of all the hype of the big dollar you can make selling an unrestored book which is alot of hype and not connected to collecting at all but just plain old greed.

As for unrestored cars its rare to find one due to the elements and age.

One day unrestored comics WILL have some sort of conservation done because paper does not last forever.

[fantastic_four]

Comics restoration has been split into Pro and Amateur restoration for a long time already. It was discussed in the 1990 Grading Guide, and of course CGC notes on every restored label whether the work was (A)mateur or (P)rofessional.

 

The distinction that still needs to be made is conservation vs. restoration. For example, that example of a VG+ with a tear that couldn't be easily handled; repairing that tear isn't restoration, it's conservation--you're making sure that it won't degrade in quality any more than it already has.

 

CGC has the ear of the entire vintage comics industry right now...I really wish they'd develop a new label for "conserved" comics.

[blazingbob]

Comics can be stored forever.

 

Let's send them to the North pole and store them in warehouses where temperatures are sub zero. No humidity, complete darkness, cool. You can view them through a monitor. A huge comic silo will store your book, when you want to look at it a command is issued and the the book is retrieved, you flip the pages and the book is returned to its holder. No human hands, no oils are transferred.

 

 

[murph0]

Do you really think it would make a difference if they had both "conserved" and "restored". Either way they've both have work done to them..isn't it possible in some cases for restoration to be done in order for the book to be conserved? They're pretty interchangable in some cases. I would waiger that both labels would still go for around the same price.

Also, ablue, one thing you need to learn is you don't necessarily need to be old to know more then someone who's younger. I know many people older then me that don't have a clue. In some cases age = more experience, but it's certainly no rule of thumb.

 

Brian

[fantastic_four]

Yea, initially, "restored" and "conserved" labels would both be the kiss of death. That might be the prevailing opinion for 2, 5, or even 10 years. But that's the reason they need to do it, so that eventually people realize that there's a difference. To educate the masses.

 

Eventually, the market will realize there's a difference. A NM 9.4 comic can have a tiny 1/8" spine split. Some 1/8" spine splits can get worse just by opening up a comic. Is that same comic worth more with the split sealed or unsealed? Unsealed, it could get worse. Why would preventing a problem make the comic worth less? Doesn't pass the laugh test!