GPA Article: "Where are These Bronze 9.8's" Part 1 of 3

[mosconi]

Well said.. excellent example with hulk 181.

 

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Hulk #181 part of the infamous Mile High 2 purchase back in 1985. If not for this find by Chuck R. (I remember seeing boxes of this book at the 1985 SD con at his booth) would we be seeing the same quantity of high grade CGC copies out there? Does anyone have a link to the thread which notes the various titles and issue #s from the Mile High 2 collection??

 

Do we consider "non-Mile High 2" books tougher in high grade and a truer determinant of high grade scarcity for the Bronze age?

[tth2]

Well said.. excellent example with hulk 181.

 

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Hulk #181 part of the infamous Mile High 2 purchase back in 1985. If not for this find by Chuck R. (I remember seeing boxes of this book at the 1985 SD con at his booth) would we be seeing the same quantity of high grade CGC copies out there? Does anyone have a link to the thread which notes the various titles and issue #s from the Mile High 2 collection??

 

Do we consider "non-Mile High 2" books tougher in high grade and a truer determinant of high grade scarcity for the Bronze age?

Good question. If Hulk 181 was a warehouse find, then that would certainly limit its effectiveness as an example. But if Hulk 181 was a warehouse book, surely many other comics from that era should have been too, but they haven't been slabbed because it's not worth the cost, whereas Hulk 181 is. It would defy the odds for one of the most important BA books of all to have been the only, or one of only a few, BA books to have stacked up in a warehouse.

[mosconi]

From what I remember Hulk #181, GS X-Men #1, X-Men #94, as well as Spider #129 were all found in large quantities in the Mile High 2 purchase. Now I do not recall many DC books from the early 70's in this hoard (was it primarily Marvel books?). Anyone know the thread/link to the Mile High 2 listing?

[BronzeBruce13]

Excellent point Mosconi!

The discussion is getting interesting. I think Vince had a list of the MH2 contents. When he finds his way back to this thread, maybe he'll be able to locate it for us.

 

From what I remember Hulk #181, GS X-Men #1, X-Men #94, as well as Spider #129 were all found in large quantities in the Mile High 2 purchase. Now I do not recall many DC books from the early 70's in this hoard (was it primarily Marvel books?). Anyone know the thread/link to the Mile High 2 listing?

[joe_collector]

The discussion is getting interesting. I think Vince had a list of the MH2 contents. When he finds his way back to this thread, maybe he'll be able to locate it for us.

 

Yes, Hulk 181 was part of the MH2 find, as were tons of other books. Also note that the older, more valuable keys (like FF 48, ASM keys, etc.) were not part of this sale and were doled out in another newsletter.

 

I'll post my scans of the original ads here.

 

[joe_collector]

Page 2:

 

[joe_collector]

Second Ad:

 

[whetteon]

I would tend to disagree that Hulk 181 makes a good case example for Bruce's article. The Hulk was a more mainstream character in the Marvel Universe. Many collectors more then likely still had subscriptions running when this book came out and following Byrne’s X-Men run and Wolverine's new found stardom, many copies that were in the back bins were pulled and placed away in special case displays for selling to potential customers. Therefore, the book wasn't really that old when it started to be considered an "important" book to own by the collecting community at large.

 

A book like Luke Cage, Hero for Hire #1 is a much better example of something that never really took off until a couple of years ago. Many local comic stores wouldn't have bothered to save this particular copy from the 25 cent bins of the day and so there they sat for the better part of 25 years while everyone who visited the store bent the spine back when flipping through the box.

 

In fact, many of the long standing keys are terrible case examples as they’ve been preserved and stored in ideal conditions for the better part of two decades. Only the more obscured titles and recent new found keys that floated under the collecting community’s radar should be investigated. Among those would be the sweet, sweet DC’s Greggy always brags about.

[joe_collector]

Many local comic stores wouldn't have bothered to save this particular copy from the 25 cent bins of the day and so there they sat for the better part of 25 years while everyone who visited the store bent the spine back when flipping through the box.

 

Nope, Hero for Hire was actually a semi-valuable book when it came out and continued to sell at a premium (relative to the era) until the series got half-cancelled and Iron Fist joined in.

 

At that point, around 1977, it's popularity plummeted but it was still FAR from a 25-cent bin book, and I remember seeing it with price tags of between $10 and $20, which was a lot back then for a BA book. About 10 years later, it exploded as part of the late-80's BA and SA price explosion.

 

If you want a better example of what you're talking about, try Amazing Adventures 11, the first furry Beast, which was in the bargain bins and totally ignored until the mid-90's or so. I have an old OS from that era that lists it as a "potential sleeper" for under $10.

[otherworldsj33]

Judgingby by these ad's, just another example of DC's in general, and especially in high grade, being a lot more scarcer then Marvel's.

[joe_collector]

Judgingby by these ad's, just another example of DC's in general, and especially in high grade, being a lot more scarcer then Marvel's.

 

I'm not sure that's true, as back then, Marvels were in far more demand than DC, and it's very likely Chuck arranged his ad space accordingly. To give a 50/50 split would just be bad business when 75%+ of his customer base collected Marvel.

 

Remember, not all of the MH2 issues are listed on these pages.

[whetteon]

Many local comic stores wouldn't have bothered to save this particular copy from the 25 cent bins of the day and so there they sat for the better part of 25 years while everyone who visited the store bent the spine back when flipping through the box.

 

Nope, Hero for Hire was actually a semi-valuable book when it came out and continued to sell at a premium (relative to the era) until the series got half-cancelled and Iron Fist joined in.

 

At that point, around 1977, it's popularity plummeted but it was still FAR from a 25-cent bin book, and I remember seeing it with price tags of between $10 and $20, which was a lot back then for a BA book. About 10 years later, it exploded as part of the late-80's BA and SA price explosion.

 

If you want a better example of what you're talking about, try Amazing Adventures 11, the first furry Beast, which was in the bargain bins and totally ignored until the mid-90's or so. I have an old OS from that era that lists it as a "potential sleeper" for under $10.

 

Ah, thank you JC. Not being a collector/buyer in the 70's it seemed to me that the book was general ignored until recently. The only problem with both our examples is that they are both notorious black covers and that opens up a whole other can of worms when it comes to high grades.

 

Perhaps Iron Man 55 can be a happy medium (and a good case study) between a non black cover and a book that didn't become successful until the early 90's.

[the blob]

ASM 129 might not be a bad example. That was what, a $2 book, even by Milehigh's prices (and probably in many a 50 cents/dollar bin at shows) , until Punisher got his mini in the mid/late 80s?

 

Whether it's a warehouse find may impact things, but why would that issue have been separated out as a key (versus X-Men 94) given that the Punisher didn't become a big character until 10-12 years later (he was always my favorite in the late 70s though, I don't know why I wasn't chasing that issue then!!!)? Up until then, just another generic spidey, like the 1st app of the tarantula or rocket racer.

[finecomics]

Look at some of those x-men prices on MH ad!!! I'm surprised WBN 32 had a premium back then. I should have been calling Chuck on "dealer wholesale inquiry line" instead of wasting my money on spideys & gijoes in 1985. I would like 100 copies of Hulk 181......and.....

[the blob]

And $45 for DD 158 -- $10 more than Hulk 181! $24 for DD 159! Does it even go for that much now, raw, in what MH would have called "NM" back then (so, about a F/VF?)

 

And check out the prices on Creepy and Eerie magazines. I guess Chuck had a few of those sitting around the warehouse!

[mosconi]

Thanks for posting that Joe. Anyone catch the Spectacular Spider-Man Mag #2 (1968) in his ad, there are currently 33 of them in CGC 9.8 on the census .

[mosconi]

Early 70's DCs are not that noticeable in the ads. Sure DC was not as popular as Marvel but there are no listings for anything pre 1972. Take a look at any Neal Adams DC books in the CGC census and there are no ungodly hoarded high grade quantities coming up to support that the Mile High purchase contained them .

[otherworldsj33]

I would have to belive that if Chuck had them at least SOME would have been advertised. I don't see any mid to late 60's, or early 70's DC's in that adv. Is it fair to say Marvels were collected and saved and preserved to a greater extent then DC's of that era? It seems the census supports this.

[joe_collector]

Is it fair to say Marvels were collected and saved and preserved to a greater extent then DC's of that era? It seems the census supports this.

 

Yes, simply because there are fewer DC collectors then, and fewer DC collectors now.

 

And there is no viable reason why there would be 60's Marvel books in the newstand returns and no DC books; it makes absolutely no sense. It's all about maximizing your ad space with the less-valuable issues, as well as selling the more valuable Marvel and DC comics outside of this general ad.

 

Remember, what we see as valuable today, was not the same as the viewpoint was in the mid-80's. A lot of those "worthless #1 DC issues" in the ad, were actually speculator fodder at the time.

[drbanner]

Is it fair to say Marvels were collected and saved and preserved to a greater extent then DC's of that era? It seems the census supports this.

 

Yes, simply because there are fewer DC collectors then, and fewer DC collectors now.

 

And there is no viable reason why there would be 60's Marvel books in the newstand returns and no DC books; it makes absolutely no sense. It's all about maximizing your ad space with the less-valuable issues, as well as selling the more valuable Marvel and DC comics outside of this general ad.

 

Remember, what we see as valuable today, was not the same as the viewpoint was in the mid-80's. A lot of those "worthless #1 DC issues" in the ad, were actually speculator fodder at the time.

 

There are only a handful of DC 20-cent issues listed, and no pre-1972 DC's at all (maybe an odd book here or there but I didn't spot any). Why list those later Batman, Detective, Action, etc.,. issues instead of the earlier, more valuable ones?

 

I have no doubt that there was a huge discrepancy in the overall breadth and depth of the pre-1972 DC part of the collection compared to Marvels, where there are mid-silver to late bronze runs of most of the titles. In fact, I don't believe I've ever seen a "Mile High II" DC pedigree notation, CGC or no!