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CGC VS PGX GRADED COMICS. WHICH IS BETTER?

Started by otherworldcomics,

95 posts in this topic

Davenport

Davenport

Posted
Posted

Here's a heavily traded issue to compare, see if the myth holds up. Last 5 CGC sales (GPA)...

$192.50

$275.00

$202.49

$222.50

$238.45

 

And a PGX sale on eBay of $205.50 Ebay

 

And a recent eBay ended CGC listing popped up to (16 bids, didn't meet reserve) $192.50 Ebay

 

Maybe I'm seeing it differently than others. I don't know. But to me the PGX sale seems "consistent" with the CGC results. Very tight by comparison, considering all the auction venue variables. Or, in other words, it doesn't look like someone lost there because they went with PGX grading instead of CGC grading when listing that book for sale. confused-smiley-013.gif

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gpanalysis

gpanalysis

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Posted
And a PGX sale on eBay of $205.50 Ebay

Seller listed that book with a starting bid of $190, and a grand total of 2 people bid on it.

 

As has already been stated, it's not hard to pick a few examples to try to skew results one way or the other.

 

Yep, and to really make a comparison you would need to see the same sellers/buyers buying and selling both CGC/PGX books. Otherwise the fact that that we have observed some sellers who sell PGX exclusively and some buyers who buy PGX exclusively from them doesn't tell you much at all about where a price ends.

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Stifler-migration

Stifler-migration

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Posted
Yep, and to really make a comparison you would need to see the same sellers/buyers buying and selling both CGC/PGX books. Otherwise the fact that that we have observed some sellers who sell PGX exclusively and some buyers who buy PGX exclusively from them doesn't tell you much at all about where a price ends.

Exactly. And as BassGMan has already said, he's "sold hundreds of CGC graded books on Ebay, mostly mid 60s to current, as well as about 100 CGG/PGA/PGX graded books on Ebay and I'll say that from my experience, without a doubt CGC graded books on average sell for more."

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Davenport

Davenport

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Posted
And a PGX sale on eBay of $205.50 Ebay

Seller listed that book with a starting bid of $190, and a grand total of 2 people bid on it.

 

As has already been stated, it's not hard to pick a few examples to try to skew results one way or the other.

 

Yep, and to really make a comparison you would need to see the same sellers/buyers buying and selling both CGC/PGX books. Otherwise the fact that that we have observed some sellers who sell PGX exclusively and some buyers who buy PGX exclusively from them doesn't tell you much at all about where a price ends.

Ok. Well, I'm lost. confused.gif I'm not able to follow, or there's something I'm not understanding. Ebay CGC sales go to GPA for reporting, right? And I'm looking at finished eBay listings for PGX books. And I assume the sellers of the PGX'd books get paid real money, same as the sold CGC listings.

 

Personally I don't care one way or the other. If the myth were true I'd say "Yep, it's true. Go to eBay and see for yourself". And anyone can do that with a "completed" search. All I'm saying is when I go to eBay and look for myself I don't see some consistently huge gap that supports the myth. So far, anyway.

 

I'm out. hi.gif

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Stifler-migration

Stifler-migration

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Posted
Ok. Well, I'm lost. I'm not able to follow, or there's something I'm not understanding. Ebay CGC sales go to GPA for reporting, right? And I'm looking at finished eBay listings for PGX books. And I assume the sellers of the PGX'd books get paid real money, same as the sold CGC listings.

I'm not sure why you're lost. As has been said, it's extremely easy to pick a few examples and get skewed results. I could sit here and find examples all day long of CGC books selling for more than PGX books without breaking a sweat. And you're comparing completed GPA sales of CGC books which goes back months/years to completed PGX sales on eBay, which only goes back...what...30 days?

 

Let's try looking at a sample utilizing only completed eBay sales for both.

 

Amazing Spider-Man #45, PGX 9.0 with ow/w pages - 6 bids and reserve not met at $79.25

 

Amazing Spider-Man #45, CGC 9.0 with ow/w pages LISTED BY THE SAME SELLER AS THE PGX BOOK ABOVE AT EXACTLY THE SAME TIME - 9 bids and reserve not met at $115.31

 

Amazing Spider-Man #45, CGC 9.0 with ow pages - Sold for $139.99

 

sleeping.gif

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whomerjay

whomerjay

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And if you are planning on selling...PGX "generally" bring lower prices from what I've seen. But...if you are keeping, I like the PGX slabs better from an aesthetics perspective.

I think PGX bringing lower prices is somewhat of a myth. Considering all the variables for eBay listings (scan sizes, seller feedback, ending times, shipping fees, etc.) realized prices seem fairly tight between the two.

Here's a couple:

 

Amazing Spiderman #9 PGX 8.5 $1125.00 (last two reported on GPA for CGC 8.5: $1,150.00 and $1,006.25) Ebay

 

Iron Fist 14 PGX 9.0 $137.50 (last reported on GPA for CGC 9.0 $113.61) Ebay

 

Picking specific values, you can basically skew your argument towards anything. What your representing here are a couple of books, at a particular point in time and handful of results. Statistically, you cannot come to any real conclusions.

 

Take the following stats: there are currently over 19,000 CGC books available on eBay (between auctions and store items), and just over 1,200 CGG,PGA,PGX books - that's a ratio of almost 16 to 1. Prices realized make the comparison means even less, with only a handful of prices over $1000 over the past month (in fact a total of 3).

 

With those kind of number for PGX books, you're just never going to get any meaningful statistical comparisons.

 

Well, I think I'll have to disagree with that statement re: never getting an meaningful statistical comparison. I think those #s are enough. Especially when you can sum those numbers every 7 days. First, I'm pretty sure you can run an ANOVA a few different ways, particularly if you focus on the most frequently sold books. And your later point re: difficulty in matching (different sellers/buyers), it is possible that less reputable dealers will tend to be selling the PGX books, but you could use FBrating (% or #+, or some combination) as a co-variate. However, even if you ignore the potential lack of matching, the results will be biased in favor of CGC. So run the analysis anyway and get an idea of difference in price realized. My guess is CGC price realized is slightly higher and statistically significant, with a greater spread on high ticket GA and SA where resto is a concern. Exactly how much would be interesting to know.

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gpanalysis

gpanalysis

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So what do you think you'll get by comparing a bronze book in CGC 9.4 that has sold 40 times over the past 3 years, with the same PGX grade of the book that has sold twice? Statistics aside, would expect a buyer to pay a premium for the PGX book? Why? This is the original argument - statistically we already know that CGC books, where enough data is present, get higher returns.

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Rob

Rob

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GPA has a point. I wouldn't place much statistical validity on any study with less than 30 data points. However, I'm sure there are more than 30 sales of 9.4 PGX comics (different titles & issues) than can be compared to CGC. So you don't need 30 9.4 X-men 94's. But you can have 30 different PGX 9.4s, and compare each value to CGC.

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Silvers24

Silvers24

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Posted

Here is how I can look at it.

 

Use PGX for comics you don't wish to sell, but want graded.

Cheaper, and it should be equale as CGC as to how long

it will last in the Holster.

 

Use CGC for those you wish to sell, or you wish to keep, but

are worth a very great deal. (Like ASM #300, ASM #1, ASM #129, Hulk 181, etc)

 

That's how I look at it.

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Scheradon

Scheradon

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on issues ive looked for in bronze age that were pgx graded im willing to make higher bids. bronze age pgx issues are the equivalent of 1 higher in my experience. like a pgx 9.0 would be a cgc 9.2 some of pgx bronze look intentionally undergraded

 

I've pointed this out before and I will do it again. I think we can all agree that CGC has graded far more books than PGX to date. Yet, if you look on Ebay you will find 110 CGC 9.9 books and 155 PGX 9.9 books.

 

I've heard several people say that PGX grades tougher in the HGs, which is not rue at all from what I've seen. Just look at the BA PGX 9.9s. You will see many more BA books that have no such issues in the CGC census (even though they've had more submissions).

 

Also of worrysome note is that 128 of the PGX 9.9s is from ONE seller. To me this has the feel of BSD favoritism for the slight grade bump.

 

PGX has done nothing to sway me over to them at this point.

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awe4one

awe4one

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Also of worrysome note is that 128 of the PGX 9.9s is from ONE seller. To me this has the feel of BSD favoritism for the slight grade bump.

 

Yep...that seller is Terrence Leder with yet another alias. Long sordid history between the two...

 

Jim

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Davenport

Davenport

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Ok. Well, I'm lost. I'm not able to follow, or there's something I'm not understanding. Ebay CGC sales go to GPA for reporting, right? And I'm looking at finished eBay listings for PGX books. And I assume the sellers of the PGX'd books get paid real money, same as the sold CGC listings.

I'm not sure why you're lost. As has been said, it's extremely easy to pick a few examples and get skewed results. I could sit here and find examples all day long of CGC books selling for more than PGX books without breaking a sweat. And you're comparing completed GPA sales of CGC books which goes back months/years to completed PGX sales on eBay, which only goes back...what...30 days?

 

Let's try looking at a sample utilizing only completed eBay sales for both.

 

Amazing Spider-Man #45, PGX 9.0 with ow/w pages - 6 bids and reserve not met at $79.25

 

Amazing Spider-Man #45, CGC 9.0 with ow/w pages LISTED BY THE SAME SELLER AS THE PGX BOOK ABOVE AT EXACTLY THE SAME TIME - 9 bids and reserve not met at $115.31

 

Amazing Spider-Man #45, CGC 9.0 with ow pages - Sold for $139.99

 

sleeping.gif

Wow! 893whatthe.gif Man, $139.99! That's that CGC premium kicking in, isn't? Especially compared to those two PGX that didn't sell. So the myth IS true after all!!! Thanks for clearing that up. thumbsup2.gif

 

Oh, well, uh,...wait a sec. Here's an Amazing Spider-man #45 PGA 8.5 that finished at $135.00, about 5 bucks less that that CGC higher grade 9.0. Amazing Spider-Man #45 PGA 8.5 -White pgs

 

Never mind. sleeping.gif

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Scheradon

Scheradon

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Posted
Also of worrysome note is that 128 of the PGX 9.9s is from ONE seller. To me this has the feel of BSD favoritism for the slight grade bump.

 

Yep...that seller is Terrence Leder with yet another alias. Long sordid history between the two...

 

Jim

 

Terrence Leder confused.gif Are you saying this Terrence guy is Reynold Jay?

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B-Smooth

B-Smooth

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From the books Ive seen, PGX is tougher on copper/moderns. I dont know if this is a good business strategy to begin a company with. In the long run it will help because if you recieve a higher grade with PGX, youll know they grade tougher and THATS what will make their books sell for more. A good example of this is from the Baseball card industry. PSA is the BIG company, but Becketts cards sell for more because of their tougher grading. This is why people take a chance in submitting their cards to Beckett. If it gets a lower grade than expected...BAM...crack it and send it to PSA. Happens all the time.

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MCMiles

MCMiles

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Look at it as a buyer. Let's say you scan ebay all day looking for a semi-key or key Silver Age book to pick up below guide, or below GPA. You will have a better chance at finding that deal on a PGX book. You will have to look a lot longer because there are so few PGX auctions compared to CGC. I will say, that any low number silver or bigger key issues will achieve the same price as CGC graded books. Especially high grade copies. The only reason PGX books don't realize the same prices as CGC is because most buyers are thinking possible resale at some point and time. It is an endless cycle of diminishing values that can and does easily happen in this hobbie.

 

I love GPA but it can actually be used to hurt the hobbie. 1.) Once most serious collectors have it and can access the information, bids on books can shrink. This is because no matter how bad someone wants a comic, they really like to buy below current value. I love and collect almost any comic, so I can bid low on 50 comics and if I only win one at 70% of GPA then I am happy. 2.) Also sellers can create sales to themselves or buddies (shill) to drive averages up before legitimately selling the book.

 

Back to the question. Both have their good and bad points, which have already been pointed out pretty accurately. Now, anyone who doesn't think that there is room or a need for both companies, or is blindly loyal to just one, is sadly foolish. If you want a comic for your collection and won't buy it based on the company that graded it, you are just limiting your choices for no reason.

 

Unfortunately grading comics is primarily utilized to make money. Way behind that are the best reasons for it. Safer online trading and a census of rare or ultra high grade comics.

 

I appologize for not writing very well.

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