What Is Happening With The Ewert Trimmed Books?

[arexcrooke]

With Steve Borock's permission, here is his response to me in a PM:

 

We would never trash any comics, that would be worse than trimming them. As of this moment, we are just holding them. I would love to give them to an orphanage or something like that. Imagine being a little kid and getting a Green Lantern # 77 for free. Just not sure what to do with them yet, but they will never be destroyed by CGC.

Steve, send em to me! I guarantee that they would never hit the open market

[Illiterati-migration]

Yeah, I'm not sure why CGC is holding these books either. Who actually owns them now? If the owner (buyer of the trimmed book) wants it back, there should be no way that CGC should be able to deny the book's return. Doesn't matter if they're reimbursed or not. CGC can't unilaterally claim a book and decide it's future fate.

 

If the owner (buyer of the trimmed book) wants the book back knowing it's trimmed, I see no reason why Tom should pay for the book, that doesn't make any sense at all. Likewise, if Tom reimburses them for the book, it should belong to him, not CGC.

 

This is why I wish we had some hard facts about what is actually happening at this point. The whole thing just sounds so weird/stupid right now...

 

Actually, it's starting to sound like the typical CGC-based initiative.

[mrwoogieman]

Can someone explain to me how CGC came to be in possession of these books?

 

They were sent in to get checked for trimming and CGC isn't sure what to do with them? Just a guess.

 

The majority were not resubmits for trim checking, they were found in the humongous pile of Brulato/Ewart books that were on CGC's premises when the micro-trimming issue went public. Something like a 600 book submission if my recall of the old threads discussing this is correct. CGC would know exactly how many books were in that submission and how many CGC decided were trimmed extra sweet.

 

The presumption on CGC's part is that the start of the trimming can be pinned down to a specific time period and that books submitted by Brulato/Ewart prior to that date are 'safe'.

 

Query however, how they would know that and whether there were prior submissions done under other accounts by Ewart. Not to mention the micro-trimmed books that Ewart never had a chance to submit to CGC when his scheme was revealed (if indeed there were any), or the books that have since been trimmed by him (if any) or trimmed by the 'true trimmer' (i.e., the person who actually trimmed them if it wasn't Ewart), or those that were trimmed by disciples of Ewert or the 'true trimmer' (if any), or those that are being trimmed as we speak by the 'copycat trimmers' (as greed knows no bounds)...

[Illiterati-migration]

Can someone explain to me how CGC came to be in possession of these books?

 

They were sent in to get checked for trimming and CGC isn't sure what to do with them? Just a guess.

 

The majority were not resubmits for trim checking, they were found in the humongous pile of Brulato/Ewart books that were on CGC's premises when the micro-trimming issue went public. Something like a 600 book submission if my recall of the old threads discussing this is correct. CGC would know exactly how many books were in that submission and how many CGC decided were trimmed extra sweet.

 

The presumption on CGC's part is that the start of the trimming can be pinned down to a specific time period and that books submitted by Brulato/Ewart prior to that date are 'safe'.

 

Query however, how they would know that and whether there were prior submissions done under other accounts by Ewart. Not to mention the micro-trimmed books that Ewart never had a chance to submit to CGC when his scheme was revealed (if indeed there were any), or the books that have since been trimmed by him (if any) or trimmed by the 'true trimmer' (i.e., the person who actually trimmed them if it wasn't Ewart), or those that were trimmed by disciples of Ewert or the 'true trimmer' (if any), or those that are being trimmed as we speak by the 'copycat trimmers' (as greed knows no bounds)...

 

So how is it that these books have become CGC's supposed property?

[mrwoogieman]

Can someone explain to me how CGC came to be in possession of these books?

 

They were sent in to get checked for trimming and CGC isn't sure what to do with them? Just a guess.

 

The majority were not resubmits for trim checking, they were found in the humongous pile of Brulato/Ewart books that were on CGC's premises when the micro-trimming issue went public. Something like a 600 book submission if my recall of the old threads discussing this is correct. CGC would know exactly how many books were in that submission and how many CGC decided were trimmed extra sweet.

 

The presumption on CGC's part is that the start of the trimming can be pinned down to a specific time period and that books submitted by Brulato/Ewart prior to that date are 'safe'.

 

Query however, how they would know that and whether there were prior submissions done under other accounts by Ewart. Not to mention the micro-trimmed books that Ewart never had a chance to submit to CGC when his scheme was revealed (if indeed there were any), or the books that have since been trimmed by him (if any) or trimmed by the 'true trimmer' (i.e., the person who actually trimmed them if it wasn't Ewart), or those that were trimmed by disciples of Ewert or the 'true trimmer' (if any), or those that are being trimmed as we speak by the 'copycat trimmers' (as greed knows no bounds)...

 

So how is it that these books have become CGC's supposed property?

 

Brulato has obviously given CGC control of his property for motives known only to him. Probably something like, 'for the good of the hobby' would carry the day, but really it would be in his own best interest for him to sever ties to tainted merchandise lest his other stock be likewise viewed as suspect thus putting his bottom line in jeopardy.

 

Just guessing here...

[OldGuy]

Can someone explain to me how CGC came to be in possession of these books?

 

They were sent in to get checked for trimming and CGC isn't sure what to do with them? Just a guess.

 

So, how is it that they are "CGC's" books?

 

I don't know bro. I'm neither indorsing nor opposing their actions, I'm just sharing info.

 

I know... I'm just wondering if I've missed something here.

 

And hey, FU, GB. (Good Buddy)

 

Nope, there's nothing here to miss, although we do seem to be attempting to assemble a puzzle without having all the pieces.......or even a picture of what it should look like.......

 

You had me at F.

[RDK]

So how is it that these books have become CGC's supposed property?

 

Brulato has obviously given CGC control of his property for motives known only to him. Probably something like, 'for the good of the hobby' would carry the day, but really it would be in his own best interest for him to sever ties to tainted merchandise lest his other stock be likewise viewed as suspect thus putting his bottom line in jeopardy.

 

 

But the books aren't Brulato's property - they belong to whomever Brulato sold them to. I understand that the buyer would be advised to get his money back from him and give up the books, but they certainly aren't under legal obligation to do so.

[Red Hook]

If I were the buyer, I'd want to be free and clear of those disfigured monstrosities and get my cash back.

 

Hey, if CGC wants, I could create a website of all the Ewert abortions and create an internet sideshow of mutilated freaks! A lesson to us all!

[RDK]

If I were the buyer, I'd want to be free and clear of those disfigured monstrosities and get my cash back.

 

I don't disagree. But the implication (from earlier posts, which may not be completely accurate) is that CGC is keeping/holding the books and that the rightful owner of the books has little choice but to accept a refund from Brulato. I certainly hope that that's not the case. The owner should have the right to do whatever he wants to with the book, even keeping it if he (stupidly imo) choses.

 

After re-purchasing the books, they belong, of course, to Brulato. If he instructs CGC to hold them that's his business, but CGC doesn't/shouldn't have any legal claim to them.

[Zonker]

There are two groups of books here! The individual slabbed books sent by the individual owners for the post-Ewert re-check Harshen's pinned post above refers to. No one is suggesting CGC is doing anything other than sending each of these books back to its owner.

 

The 2nd class of books are the hundreds of raw books submitted by the VIA account owned by Brulato and Ewert that were in the grading queue when the scandal broke. As far as I know, it is that class of books we're speculating about.

[Zonker]

Guys, I think we're talking about a hundred-so raw books from Ewert sitting in grading queue when this whole mess surfaced. So Ewert and/or Brulato are the owners. I guess the question is does CGC have an obligation to purple-slab them and send them back to Ewert, knowing he has a history of gaming the system.

 

They certainly have an obligation to send the books back to him; whether the books are slabbed or not is the only decision CGC has to make in the matter.

 

You're correct of course. Just because Steve Borock has the power to make Ewert get out of the hobby and do not look back , it doesn't follow that he also has the power of eminent domain over all funny books.

 

More to the story remains to be told about some transfer of ownership of the tainted books from VIA to CGC.

[mrwoogieman]

So how is it that these books have become CGC's supposed property?

 

Brulato has obviously given CGC control of his property for motives known only to him. Probably something like, 'for the good of the hobby' would carry the day, but really it would be in his own best interest for him to sever ties to tainted merchandise lest his other stock be likewise viewed as suspect thus putting his bottom line in jeopardy.

 

 

But the books aren't Brulato's property - they belong to whomever Brulato sold them to. I understand that the buyer would be advised to get his money back from him and give up the books, but they certainly aren't under legal obligation to do so.

 

Only the very few that were caught on the send-them-back-in-and-we'll-try-to-get-it-right-this-time-CGC-initiated recall are the property of the buyer. What buyer wouldn't want to get paid full price for a trimmed book by accepting Brulato's repurchase offer? I would have to speculate that if someone is going to take the time to send a blue label in to be checked for trimming that they're aren't going to be satisfied to get a PLOD in return without compensation. Why bother sending it in if they want it back regardless of the recheck result? You seem to be describing a class of none.

[panhandlefool]

If I were the buyer, I'd want to be free and clear of those disfigured monstrosities and get my cash back.

 

I don't disagree. But the implication (from earlier posts, which may not be completely accurate) is that CGC is keeping/holding the books and that the rightful owner of the books has little choice but to accept a refund from Brulato. I certainly hope that that's not the case. The owner should have the right to do whatever he wants to with the book, even keeping it if he (stupidly imo) choses.

 

After re-purchasing the books, they belong, of course, to Brulato. If he instructs CGC to hold them that's his business, but CGC doesn't/shouldn't have any legal claim to them.

That's my take. As long as I get a check from someone for the purchase price of my trimmed book, I'm pleased. Of course, I thought I got a good deal on the book, but I'd definitely rather have my $$ back than the book with a green (or is it purple?) label. I never asked about getting the book back, and don't intend to. CGC was kind enough not to charge me the return shipping, and they've shipped the books back to me in three groups, so overall I guess it was handled as well as could be by them.

 

My one key issue that is lost is the arbitrary "Sept 04" date after which they will re-examine for trimming. I suppose it's like so many other parts of this issue - we haven't heard anything specific from CGC on why Sept 04 is the cutoff for when they will/won't look at a book, and we are left to our own speculation, which can sometimes go off the deep-end. I sent in ALL my Ewert books, and they returned those graded pre-Sept 04 unopened and unchecked.

[RDK]

So how is it that these books have become CGC's supposed property?

 

Brulato has obviously given CGC control of his property for motives known only to him. Probably something like, 'for the good of the hobby' would carry the day, but really it would be in his own best interest for him to sever ties to tainted merchandise lest his other stock be likewise viewed as suspect thus putting his bottom line in jeopardy.

 

 

But the books aren't Brulato's property - they belong to whomever Brulato sold them to. I understand that the buyer would be advised to get his money back from him and give up the books, but they certainly aren't under legal obligation to do so.

 

Only the very few that were caught on the send-them-back-in-and-we'll-try-to-get-it-right-this-time-CGC-initiated recall are the property of the buyer. What buyer wouldn't want to get paid full price for a trimmed book by accepting Brulato's repurchase offer? I would have to speculate that if someone is going to take the time to send a blue label in to be checked for trimming that they're aren't going to be satisfied to get a PLOD in return without compensation. Why bother sending it in if they want it back regardless of the recheck result? You seem to be describing a class of none.

 

Again, I don't disagree that most owners wouldn't want to get refunded on their trimmed books. That's not my point. My point is, that it's up to the owner to agree to any refund and confiscation of their book - it's the owner's property, whether that owner be Brulato or whomever he sold a book to, not CGC. I suspect that we're arguing in circles and there is no real issue here, but a few of the earlier posts seemed to suggest that CGC was keeping the books and simply offering a refund via Brulato. There was also speculation - which thankfully proved wrong - that CGC might destroy these trimmed books. My point was that CGC has no legal right to destroy (or confiscate) these books that they don't own. Perhaps Brulato has instructed CGC to hold on to his books and do with them as they see fit, but this seems stupid on his part since he's now out both money and comics. A trimmed book might be worth less, but it's certainly not worthless, and unless CGC either purchased the books from Brulato or were given them free and clear I don't see how CGC can either destroy them (which, again, they won't) or give them to kids to read.

[Scheradon]

After reading through this thread, I could see how someone may want to keep an infamous Ewart book. Think about it, now they will eventually become rare oddities and possibly sought after for collectibles in themselves.

[glasgap]

I have the link to the EWERT Ebay listings from another thread. I believe there was another link to an EXCEL spreadsheet which was more extensive (containing images of the FF3 and FF10 etc.). Can someone provide me with the link for this document.

 

Thanks

[ronm3-migration]

After reading through this thread, I could see how someone may want to keep an infamous Ewart book. Think about it, now they will eventually become rare oddities and possibly sought after for collectibles in themselves.

 

I would highly doubt that. They are trimmed books and I know I would never want them as a collectible. Plus you would be putting Ewert on a pedestal and giving him recognition for his deeds. That is a .

[Guest]

After reading through this thread, I could see how someone may want to keep an infamous Ewart book. Think about it, now they will eventually become rare oddities and possibly sought after for collectibles in themselves.

 

Hopefully years from now people take a more nostalgic view of this entire episode, and hopefully regard CGC as doing a great deal to restore the community to it's level of faith and security that their services provide.

CGC do perform a service that is light years ahead of what was happening on an individual basis by collectors checking for restoration, and doctoring before they joined the community. WE ALL KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE. And the bottom line is that it was, and is still happening today.

To still harp on about concerns that this is not a 101% certifiable 101% of the time is asking the impossible of any service provider. This will never be acheiveable, as one person pointed out, someone will always think of a new way to beat the mouse trap.

I for one believe that CGC are working to the best interests of the community on this matter, and within the confines of their legal obligation's, and fiduciary duties within CGC. Which cannot be mitigated regardless of how much retorspective analysis of each and every move they make is deemed self-serving, or uncommunicative by those who decide it to be.

If they hold books doctored by Ewart books, fine, what does it matter to us. Does it matter to the community that their out circulation...yes. Is that a good result for the community....yes again. What more do you want to hear, what nth degree of saluting the opposing forumites will appease the rumbles, and constant nit picking over the detritous at the end of all this. It really doesn't matter.

 

Focus on something positive please, how can we improve things, where can we expand security, and interest in the hobby inclusively, and beyond CGC. These are the theme's that should be most impressive on our minds right now. CGC are certainly taking that approach. Their survival is our survival, they are not mutually exclusive.

[Red Hook]

I'm going to design a sticker....kind of like the Pacific Coast sticker, that can be applied to the Ewert trimmed books.

[Ze-man]

Hopefully years from now people take a more nostalgic view of this entire episode,

 

 

Define nostalgic