AF #15 scam

[Smokinghawk]

The buyer is at fault. Small print is not unethical at all--it's prefectly legit. Now, if the seller had typed "this is a reprint" in WHITE text on the white background, THAT'S a scam. But small type which is still visible (it occupies it's own line under the description in contrasting colors) isn't dishonest.

 

I speak from experience. I grabbed an X-Men 94 in VF for $20 a couple of years ago. The auction stated plainly, "scan available on request." I was greedy, didn't worry about the scan, and just anticipated a $20 X-men 94. I won.

 

The comic arrived promptly, and the grading was accurate. Problem? It was X-men 94 of the new series, not THE #94.

 

But it was my fault. I'd been greedy and inattentive. The seller knew he'd "had" me, but the trap was set by my own greed, not by his dishonesty.

 

Hmmm...Maybe I'll flip the book this week and see if X-men hype makes me a profit!

 

[hammer-migration]

Chris, OF COURSE it's insane to expect 1000X more than what you pay on every transaction in the course of normal everyday activity, but there are many here on this Forum that do NOT see it as such. I'm not talking about something that was deliberately misrepresented as was the X-Men 94 example above. I mean expecting to to get 50 of something for the price of one. Which merchants/sellers have that business policy? They'd close their doors for good the same day they opened them if their philosophy was, "The first customer, even if he only buys a piece of Bazooka bubblegum, will get the deed to the store for the price of the gum, as a bonus". Of course that type of unrealistic expectation on the part of any consumer is whacko but THAT is the overriding pervasive mentality on this Forum.

[garthgantu]

This is the kind of buyer who would have happily paid Mr. Barnum their nickel to "see the egress"

[Rob]

I just believe that the customer is always right (and this is coming from someone who sells more than buys). It is the seller's responsibility to make it perfectly clear what the customer is buying, and make sure there is no misrepresentation of the item being purchased. The customer (since he is the one giving away his hard-earned money) should have every right to decide what he wants to pay for and what he doesn't.

 

It is clear in this case that the seller intentionally meant for the item description to be vague, hoping to reel in some sucker. That's exactly what he did. If the seller didn't realize it was a reprint until he received the comic, I would still say he is entitled to a refund. But the fact that he is aware BEFORE sending any money, I definitely feel it is his right to back out of the deal. It's worth the neg to save $173.

 

As much as the buyer should learn a hard lesson here, I still feel that what the seller did was worse. I am a vigilante against scam artists.

[14 of spades]

i agree with you rob

 

if the intention of the seller was to try to fool some sucker into paying $$$ for a reprint - by hosting a deliberately MISLEADING auction - i.e. put all the regular decription in big font, and then the important "reprint" information in tiny font so that most observers don't see it - then the seller is not behaving in an ethical manner.

 

as for the case where darth's buyers have backed out of their deals by not paying - that's not darth's fault. darth wasn't trying to mislead anyone - it was clearly stated by both description and scan, that the books were reprints. went ahead and bid anyways, thinking it was the real thing. those are well-deserved negs.

 

as for this AF auction - i think the seller is despicable. it's tantamount to selling a restored book as unrestored. suppose it wasn't the original, but in fact, a restored copy of the real thing - but he put the fact that it was restored in tiny font - would THAT be acceptable?

[shadroch]

While I agree that the buyer should pay,after looking at the auction link it is obvious there was a lot of shilling going on. I think the buyer should pay one increment over the last legitimite bid.

[Darthdiesel]

He couldn't see past his own greed in anticipation of "screwing" over the seller by "stealing" a legit copy of AF 15 for $172 and then flipping it for several thousands of dollars...

 

Well, I don't agree with you on this one. We don't know what his max bid was. Maybe he bid $3000, but the seller only felt comfortable shilling it up to $172. You can't blame the buyer that it only went for $172.

 

And if he really believed it was a real AF 15, why wouldn't he bid on it at $172? He's supposed to let some other guy get the "great deal" because he feels guilty for buying it so cheaply? I spend hours checking new "Buy It Now" auctions, as a low BIN is the only way I'm going to find something on eBay to make a profit off. And I'm not looking for a 10% profit either - the more the better. Granted, he should have known it was too good to be true. A lesson learned on his part. I would tell him, "Now let this be a lesson to you," but to make him pay $172 for a reprint, when the seller's scam attempt was blatant, is wrong.

 

I knew when I wrote this real late last night, it would get someone fired up. Nice reply!

 

I can accept your point that maybe the bidder did bid $3000 and it only got bid up to $172 so yes I can't blame the low price on the seller. However, what we;ve missed in this assumption is that the reason that the price only went to $172 for this item was because all others who saw this item ACTUALLY READ the small print and had the common sense and patience to back away from a fishy item. Your buyer there could have always retracted when he noticed that the AF 15 was selling for way less with a day left than what it normally does and realize that something is odd and check into it further. I double check any auctions I bid over $100 on, maybe some guyus don't; but if you bid $3K and upwards on an item , wouldn't you double check thoroughly? where's the rush? I don't leave any bids for that high of an amount unattended EVER. Who in their right mind would?

 

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with making a profit, but I'm saying it is fundamentally wrong to expect that it is entitled to you without someone else competing for it. With that premise, why or how can anyone rightfully expect to win a "real" AF 15 in VG condition for a baragain on eBay? This is the most watched/sought after comic collectible and everyone in the comics business(collector, buyer, fraud scam artist, speculator) knows it.

 

My point is "If you bid on it and win, you pay." PERIOD. No compromise. It is your obligation to fulfill your end of the bargain. If you are defrauded, the burden is on the system and you to prove it. Sucks, don't it? but it could have all been prevented if you, the buyer, were more aware. "You reap what you sow" and insert ay and all "consequence" adages you can think of here...

[Darthdiesel]

hey darth just curious,

 

i notice that the bidder wildbunch300 didn't give you a retaliatory neg - did you snipe the neg on him?

 

No need to snipe. I didn't care about the retaliatory neg here. The guy ticked me off. He gave me every excuse in the book and I countered it with logic as to how he could have backed out graciously when he realized he made the mistake. The description was clear, it was a reprint, but in his case, he saw dollar signs and a Sucker pasted on MY forehead. Also his ego would not let him admit he was in the wrong and continued to blame it on me but had nothing to stand on. I'm out money but I followed through as I would on any NPB transaction and ultimately with no resolution, it ends up with a neg from me. He probably realized he was wrong finally and decided not to retaliate?

 

 

Reneging does not sit right with me. Other forum members may reecall when I went slightly overboard on a deal where a local buyer with flase contact info won a CGC ASM 31 from me and reneged. With some outside help, this buyer was tracked down and when presented with certain options, saw things my way and everyone was happy.

[Darthdiesel]

Here's my two cents (since the general complaint on this Forum appears to be that a Buyer should get 1000X what he pays for and now we're complaining about manufacturer's guarantees, disclaimers, fine print, etc.).

I've always felt that I should get WHAT I PAY FOR. Whether I'm buying a car, a bucket of bait, a plastic toy, or a comic. I'm not stupid and naive enough to EXPECT to pay exactly what it cost a retail outlet to stock, or a manufacturer to manufacture an item I'm purchasing. In other words, I don't expect to walk into a jewelry store, ask the price on a particular Rolex, ask the counterperson what the store paid for it, then ask him to estimate what it cost Rolex to produce that item in parts and labor, and DEMAND to have it at THAT price, then walk away yelling "rip-off" when he declines. If I like the price, and I've shopped it around, I BUY it. If all we're concerned with is if someone somewhere is making a penny on our spending dollar, we won't even buy a can of tomatoes because, why should we give Pathmark 99cents when they get it for 42 cents and it costs Progresso only 21 cents to produce that can?

Mostly everyone on this Forum has a severe problem. The SAME one common to almost every member. They want it ALL, and they want it for NOTHING, or GOD help the seller for sticking to his price. You want to walk into a department store, pick out a shirt priced $29.95, say "I'll take it" and expect to be given the entire inventory of the Men's Dept. for that price or you'll leave screaming "FRAUD!".

Here's a simple concept that may aid some in this unrealistic thinking:

If there are NO profits, there will be NO stores. No food, no restaurants, no comic hobby, no vehicles, etc. We'll all have to become farmers and hunters to survive except that we'll have to craft our own ammo out of dirt, because there will be no stores to buy it and we'll have to self fertilize our own crops, because there will be no place to buy bags of manure. Oh yeah, there will also not be an Internet or a CGC because even Megasaurs' money couldn't hold out forever without an unimportant little factor called RETAIL/WHOLESALE/ECONOMICS. There are sites online that discuss economics and how the world we live in is based on them. Perhaps reading a few paragraphs would help aid some misconceptions of the unrealistic altruism of thinking that you should get back $1000+ worth of product for each of your spending dollars.

 

 

IT"S HAMMERTIME! Well put...

[dolphinsrwj]

i hate when i run out of watching space and have to put a bid on something to see how it ends and i end up wining it.i always pay,but i wish ebay would increase the watch page to 50.