Intriguing Definitional Changes In New 2006 Overstreet Guide

[Flaming_Telepath]

I'm assuming that, given the magnitude of this 'error', they'll very shortly be announcing a full product recall.

 

Otherwise, they might be accused of market manipulation, or perhaps of being in the back pocket of the Heritage/CGC cabal.

 

Which obviously could never be the case.

[Aman619]

Im curious about something, Mark. Nobody reads the Overstreet grading guidelines anymore since they never change. So what tipped you off to check it out THIS year? Care to share?

[FFB]

Im curious about something, Mark. Nobody reads the Overstreet grading guidelines anymore since they never change. So what tipped you off to check it out THIS year? Care to share?

 

He's a LAWYER. Lawyers go straight for that section of the guide EVERY year as soon as it comes out.

 

What? Just because YOU don't read the guide that way....

[esquirecomics]

Where else is this announcement going to be disseminated? CBG? Scoop? Wizard? Gemstone website? Newsarama?

 

 

Still waiting for some announcement outside a single post on a message forum.

 

Unless the OS guys have taken a page from CGC in the PA department...

 

Jim

 

Frankly, I'm waiting too. Left quite a few follow-up messages, and no noe one is responding.

[esquirecomics]

Im curious about something, Mark. Nobody reads the Overstreet grading guidelines anymore since they never change. So what tipped you off to check it out THIS year? Care to share?

 

He's a LAWYER. Lawyers go straight for that section of the guide EVERY year as soon as it comes out.

 

What? Just because YOU don't read the guide that way....

 

This is exactly right! It was a lawyer thing.

[Aman619]

A LAWYER thing sounds to me like you had a CLIENT attached to the case... mm?

[Zonker]

Did you guys notice that this edition of the Guide omits any definitions of the grades along the 10 point scale? Seems to me kind of ludicrous to publish prices for Good, VG, Fine VF, VF/NM and NM-, but no where between the covers actually attempt to explain what those grades are. I guess you're supposed to buy the Grading Guide?

 

I noticed Pontoon (quoted below) mentioned this near the top of the thread, but I missed the significance until I went thumbing through this years Guide today. They do have a page on BLB grading (p 270), but nothing on comic books in the Comic Book Price Guide, despite the helpful hint on p. 67: "It's difficult to overstate how much accurate grading plays into getting a good price for your sales or purchases."

 

Maybe removing the grading definitions is Gemstone's way of telling us we should leave 100% of the grading of comics to the professionals at CGC! Don't try grading your own books, kiddees, it is so complicated we would have to devote 4 whole pages of text to give you an overview of the concept!

 

This is a bit of an aside to Mark's original post, but unless I missed it, the new guide for the first time ever has left out the usual info about the guide, values, grading, preservation etc etc. That stuff is second nature to anyone reading this thread, but isn't it valuable info to anyone new collector buying a guide for the first time? It seems really strange that its no longer there and also another indication of a fundamental shift and attempt to guide the hobby into a ceratin direction

[nearmint]

Maybe removing the grading definitions is Gemstone's way of telling us we should leave 100% of the grading of comics to the professionals at CGC! Don't try grading your own books, kiddees, it is so complicated we would have to devote 4 whole pages of text to give you an overview of the concept!

 

I think your guess in your first paragraph is more likely. They probably want to see you the grading guide.

[esquirecomics]

A LAWYER thing sounds to me like you had a CLIENT attached to the case... mm?

 

Man, some of you guys really want to go conspiracy on me!

 

 

No, no client. Except myself of course. Was nothing more than my legal training kicking in and reading the fine print.

[esquirecomics]

Did you guys notice that this edition of the Guide omits any definitions of the grades along the 10 point scale? Seems to me kind of ludicrous to publish prices for Good, VG, Fine VF, VF/NM and NM-, but no where between the covers actually attempt to explain what those grades are. I guess you're supposed to buy the Grading Guide?

 

I noticed Pontoon (quoted below) mentioned this near the top of the thread, but I missed the significance until I went thumbing through this years Guide today. They do have a page on BLB grading (p 270), but nothing on comic books in the Comic Book Price Guide, despite the helpful hint on p. 67: "It's difficult to overstate how much accurate grading plays into getting a good price for your sales or purchases."

 

Maybe removing the grading definitions is Gemstone's way of telling us we should leave 100% of the grading of comics to the professionals at CGC! Don't try grading your own books, kiddees, it is so complicated we would have to devote 4 whole pages of text to give you an overview of the concept!

 

This is a bit of an aside to Mark's original post, but unless I missed it, the new guide for the first time ever has left out the usual info about the guide, values, grading, preservation etc etc. That stuff is second nature to anyone reading this thread, but isn't it valuable info to anyone new collector buying a guide for the first time? It seems really strange that its no longer there and also another indication of a fundamental shift and attempt to guide the hobby into a ceratin direction

 

Very worthy of an inquire, which I will do.

 

In the interim, any Gemstone folks wish to respond to this?

[FlyingDonut]

Did you guys notice that this edition of the Guide omits any definitions of the grades along the 10 point scale? Seems to me kind of ludicrous to publish prices for Good, VG, Fine VF, VF/NM and NM-, but no where between the covers actually attempt to explain what those grades are. I guess you're supposed to buy the Grading Guide?

 

I noticed Pontoon (quoted below) mentioned this near the top of the thread, but I missed the significance until I went thumbing through this years Guide today. They do have a page on BLB grading (p 270), but nothing on comic books in the Comic Book Price Guide, despite the helpful hint on p. 67: "It's difficult to overstate how much accurate grading plays into getting a good price for your sales or purchases."

 

Maybe removing the grading definitions is Gemstone's way of telling us we should leave 100% of the grading of comics to the professionals at CGC! Don't try grading your own books, kiddees, it is so complicated we would have to devote 4 whole pages of text to give you an overview of the concept!

 

This is a bit of an aside to Mark's original post, but unless I missed it, the new guide for the first time ever has left out the usual info about the guide, values, grading, preservation etc etc. That stuff is second nature to anyone reading this thread, but isn't it valuable info to anyone new collector buying a guide for the first time? It seems really strange that its no longer there and also another indication of a fundamental shift and attempt to guide the hobby into a ceratin direction

 

Very worthy of an inquire, which I will do.

 

In the interim, any Gemstone folks wish to respond to this?

 

They needed to get more information on Platinum Age and Big Little Books.

[esquirecomics]

I think it is time I publicly post my frustration b/c private comments and efforts have done nothing.

 

I have arrived at the conclusion that Gemstone does not want to discuss this issue beyond the few sentences they posted here in this thread and the couple of initial conversations I had two weeks ago. I've left messages via phone, sent PMs and e-mails, and they are apparently simply too busy to respond and have even a meaningful five minute substantive conversation on a topic that pertains directly to their business.

 

Of course, I have so much free time on my hands handling a non-comic book related legal practice against the US Government, yet somehow I can find the time to try to focus for a few minutes on what at least I, and apparently some others, felt was an important comic book community issue. The fact that Gemstone admitted the modifications were completely in error is quite significant and there remains much to be understood as to how we even got to the point of actual publication.

 

I have a lot of respect for those at Gemstone, and I consider them friends. I am not going to identify any specific person in particular, but I personally, for whatever that is worth (and perhaps it is worth nothing notwithstanding my spending several thousands of dollars in advertising with them), don't find this acceptable and I find it to be a deliberate ducking of the issue.

 

So, I will ask my $64,000 question again here:

 

does Gemstone intend to publicize further, such as through Scoop, the fact that it published inaccurate definitions so that the general readership of the Price Guide (and most certainly beyond these boards) and others are not inappropriately led to believe that significant modifications to controversial positions surrounding restoration and pressing have not been rendered?

 

I encourage everyone to contact those they know at Gemstone and inquire further about this definitional controversy.

[TomG]

This Friday’s Scoop will feature a story on the restoration definition. Additionally we will be soliciting input from all Scoop readers about Grading issues over the next few weeks in conjunction with the new edition of the Grading Guide, which is just one of the books we’re working on.

 

Regarding the grading definitions, this was not a mistaken omission from the Guide. Many of the static, year-to-year features will migrate to our website. The Guide’s home page is http://www.gemstonepub.com/06_cbpg.asp and you’ll find a click to the Grading Definitions (there is a note at the end of the “About This Book” section to check online).

[Red Hook]

[mica]

Tom

If there were enough people inquiring would you put the grading definitions "back" in future editions?

It would be nice.

I realize that it might seem old fashioned, but to me it's the pillar of the whole collecting mindset.

[TomG]

We would absolutely consider it, but we are looking at a number of concerns which includes rising paper costs. This is up 30% this year alone. We are looking to cut pages and it may not happen, but is an economic reality.

 

But of course, we will consider it as we appreciate all feedback from collectors and retailers.

[FlyingDonut]

We would absolutely consider it, but we are looking at a number of concerns which includes rising paper costs. This is up 30% this year alone. We are looking to cut pages and it may not happen, but is an economic reality.

 

But of course, we will consider it as we appreciate all feedback from collectors and retailers.

 

I cannot believe you are even considering removing the grading definitions. That's the reason for the Guide's existence. You need to reduce paper costs? I can understand that. Here's a start. Get rid of the 100 pages on Big Little Books. They have their own price guide already.

 

Then get rid of Bob Beehrbohm's screed on comics history, which has two pages on all comics published since 1955, and doesn't mention any of the significant changes to the industry since then.

[ronm3-migration]

I would rather you charge a little more and make the book bigger actually. or just get rid of the gallery section and have a collectors opinions section. I bet that would work out better than you think.

I would rather hear from the collectors around the world rather than hear from the same people year after year.

[Timulty]

... me thinks there was a little too much caffeine availble in Chicago today. Though a good point on the Big Little Books. I agree grading definitions are an important part.

[ArnoldTBlumberg]

Could have set my watch by FlyingDonut's reply.

 

The BLB book is not a price guide. No prices in it.

 

Let me take care of your next reply:

 

"So why don't you put the prices in the BLB book and get all those BLBs out of our Guide, they're infecting us with their very presence! Look, my skin, boiling! Oh no, it's spreading...aghhhh"

 

Or something like that.