Stan Lee File Copies 1 1

[Wally's Comics]

I was conducting some research recently when I stumbled across a Rolling Stone article from 1971 which mentioned Stan Lee's personal collection. I immediately thought of the "File Copies". However, as I continued to read, I found it quite odd that the piece mentioned how Stan's whole collection was ruined as a result of a water leak in his basement.

 

I kind of crazy but even if his collection was a 0.5 grade

I bet people would still pay thru the nose for it...

 

I could see being mailed dripping wet from his own pizz

and I'm sure someone would buy this and label it a fine pedigree.

 

 

[MasterChief]

Does not an inquiring mind wonder how something might exist if it was citied as being destroyed 30 years before its creation?

From the article:

"Stan has been editor of Marvel Comics since he was 17 and Marvel was called Timely, over 30 years ago. He used to have a collection of all the comics he had ever put out, a collection that would be worth quite a lot of money now. He had it stashed in the cellar of the house he used to have in Hewlitt, Long Island. But one day he went down to look through some old issues and found that the whole collection was ruined. It had gotten wet from a leak through the walls, and the books were all mildewed, and crumbled in his hands at the touch."

[Amazing_Bag_man]

I met him a few years ago in Chicago...was like meeting royalty. 2 BIG bouncers on either side of him, 1 item only to get signed...move along. But he was as nice as could be, smiling and joking around!

 

That banner of yours crack me up....Pretty cool

[MasterChief]

If in fact Stan's personal copies were destroyed as reported, how could the books billed as "file copies" be certified as a pedigree.

Not disputing whether or not Stan had the comics.  Maybe the question is:  Were those certified books originally owned by Stan Lee.

"At Wizard World's 2002 comics and popular media convention July 4-6 in Chicago, Heritage Comics Auctions (HCA) rang up a record-breaking $5,027,553 in sales (including 15% buyer's premium) with an 83% sell-through rate. The sale received international attention due to a consignment from Stan Lee, creator of Spider-Man. Lee consigned his personal file copies of key Marvel comics, including Fantastic Four #1, Amazing Spider-Man #1, Daredevil #1, X-Men #1 and others. He had kept these copies over the years for reference and felt that the time was right to release them to his fans."

[FourthWorld]

<p><font face="Arial" style="font-size: 11pt">If

in fact Stan's personal copies were destroyed as reported, how could the books

billed as "file copies" be certified as a pedigree.</font></p>

<p><font face="Arial" style="font-size: 11pt">Not disputing whether or not Stan had the comics. 

Maybe the question is:  Were those certified books originally owned by Stan

Lee.</font></p>

<blockquote>

<p><font face="Arial" color="#0000FF" style="font-size: 11pt">"At Wizard World's 2002 comics and popular

media convention July 4-6 in Chicago, Heritage Comics Auctions (HCA) rang up a

record-breaking $5,027,553 in sales (including 15% buyer's premium) with an 83%

sell-through rate. The sale received international attention due to a

consignment from Stan Lee, creator of Spider-Man. Lee consigned his personal

file copies of key Marvel comics, including Fantastic Four #1, Amazing

Spider-Man #1, Daredevil #1, X-Men #1 and others. He had kept these copies over

the years for reference and felt that the time was right to release them to his

fans."</font></p> They are not true file copies...Stan just "claims" they are.....everyone (except a few able to see thru the $$ signs) take him at his greedy word...hey I like Stan, he did a Great service to the Industry, BUT...his greed knows NO bounds

]

Edited May 11, 2006 by FourthWorld

[s-man]

<p><font face="Arial" style="font-size: 11pt">If

in fact Stan's personal copies were destroyed as reported, how could the books

billed as "file copies" be certified as a pedigree.</font></p>

<p><font face="Arial" style="font-size: 11pt">Not disputing whether or not Stan had the comics. 

Maybe the question is:  Were those certified books originally owned by Stan

Lee.</font></p>

<blockquote>

<p><font face="Arial" color="#0000FF" style="font-size: 11pt">"At Wizard World's 2002 comics and popular

media convention July 4-6 in Chicago, Heritage Comics Auctions (HCA) rang up a

record-breaking $5,027,553 in sales (including 15% buyer's premium) with an 83%

sell-through rate. The sale received international attention due to a

consignment from Stan Lee, creator of Spider-Man. Lee consigned his personal

file copies of key Marvel comics, including Fantastic Four #1, Amazing

Spider-Man #1, Daredevil #1, X-Men #1 and others. He had kept these copies over

the years for reference and felt that the time was right to release them to his

fans."</font></p>

</blockquote>

 

Maybe he had more than one stash

[OldGuy]

If in fact Stan's personal copies were destroyed as reported, how could the books billed as "file copies" be certified as a pedigree.

 

1. The books were not certified as a pedigree, they were certified as a collection.

 

2. Steve B. has stated in the past that if you throw enough business CGC's way that they will put what ever you want on the label. Cash talks.

[MasterChief]

1. Perhaps this is old news and has since been corrected:

http://www.cgccomics.com/news/viewarticle.asp?IDArticle=177

"CGC designates as a Pedigree collection any comic book collection that can be authenticated as having had a single owner prior to coming onto the back issue market. Examples of other Pedigree collections include The Mile High (also known as the Edgar Church) Collection from the 1970’s, The William Gaines File Copies of E.C. Comics, and the Stan Lee File copies of early Marvel Comics."

2. I agree!

[OldGuy]

1. Perhaps this is old news and has since been corrected: <p>

 

http://www.cgccomics.com/news/viewarticle.asp?IDArticle=177<p>

 

"CGC designates as a Pedigree collection any comic book collection that can be authenticated as having had a single owner prior to coming onto the back issue market. Examples of other Pedigree collections include The Mile High (also known as the Edgar Church) Collection from the 1970’s, The William Gaines File Copies of E.C. Comics, and the Stan Lee File copies of early Marvel Comics."<p>

 

Well now that is interesting.

 

I guess grade isn't a factor for CGC to call a collection a pedigree. Interesting....

[AlexH]

I can't recall where I heard this, but it sticks in my mind for some reason...the books that were deemed "Stan Lee pedigree", were books he kept at the Marvel office when he was working there. They were used as the reference copies, which are why they aren't in very good shape (in general).

[lou_fine]

<p>Does not an inquiring mind wonder how something might exist if it was citied

as being destroyed 30 years before its creation?<br>

<br>

From the article:<br>

<br>

"Stan has been editor of Marvel Comics since he was 17 and

Marvel was called Timely, over 30 years ago. He used to have a collection of all

the comics he had ever put out, a collection that would be worth quite a lot of

money now. He had it stashed in the cellar of the house he used to have in

Hewlitt, Long Island. But one day he went down to look through some old issues

and found that the whole collection was ruined. It had gotten wet from a leak

through the walls, and the books were all mildewed, and crumbled in his hands at

the touch."</font></p>

 

Good catch!

 

When the Stan Lee file copies first came up for sale on Heritage with all of their associated hype, I also questioned their true history. I also remembered this same story, except I thought I had read it in a copy of CBG sometime in the 1980's.

 

Maybe Stan or Heritage could provide us with a better or more accurate background on these so-called "file copies".

[blowout]

<p>Does not an inquiring mind wonder how something might exist if it was citied

as being destroyed 30 years before its creation?<br>

<br>

From the article:<br>

<br>

"Stan has been editor of Marvel Comics since he was 17 and

Marvel was called Timely, over 30 years ago. He used to have a collection of all

the comics he had ever put out, a collection that would be worth quite a lot of

money now. He had it stashed in the cellar of the house he used to have in

Hewlitt, Long Island. But one day he went down to look through some old issues

and found that the whole collection was ruined. It had gotten wet from a leak

through the walls, and the books were all mildewed, and crumbled in his hands at

the touch."</font></p>

 

Good catch!

 

When the Stan Lee file copies first came up for sale on Heritage with all of their associated hype, I also questioned their true history. I also remembered this same story, except I thought I had read it in a copy of CBG sometime in the 1980's.

 

Maybe Stan or Heritage could provide us with a better or more accurate background on these so-called "file copies".

 

Hmm, hadn't heard that story before. Could shed a whole new light on the autheticity of the collection.

[MasterChief]

Perhaps. But on the other hand, by the late 1960's, Stan was in the Marvel offices one maybe two times a week for the purpose of editorial management, not writing. He did the later at home -- where one might imagine "research material" would be of most benefit.

 

Here's an interesting quote by Stan regarding his personal comics, aka the Stan Lee file copies.

 

"These comics are my personal copies, the ones I've read and referred to over the years," said Stan Lee. "They may not be in mint condition but I love each one because they represent the highlights of my career to me and I've enjoyed thumbing through them time and again. In fact, they're the only copies of these key books that I've saved and treasured. I've been waiting for just the right opportunity to release these colorful old friends of mine to collectors all over the world, and Heritage is absolutely the right company to do that for me."

 

Link: http://comics.heritageauctions.com/common/info/press/default.php?ReleaseID=219

[Aman619]

Ive often questioned the origins (secret to be sure) of the "Stan Lee Copies" Stan always said if he knew comics would be worth so much, he would have saved his. And then there is the story of how his collection was water damaged in the basement. My personal opinion is that he was offerred a chance to market 'his' collection, and it consisted of a box or two that he still had plus other stuff thrown in. Im just too cynical I know.

 

but - - even with Stan saying he never kept any and losing many to water damage, It isnt too hard to believe that 1) Stan did accumulate boxes of books he took home over the years, etc, and that 2) not ALL of them were waterlogged. Also, Stan lived on Long Island in the 60s, so any Stan Lee copies from later on could easily have been "his" copies from home, or LA or the NY office. So, I can believe that STan had a few hundred Marvels sitting around.

[sckao]

Ive often questioned the origins (secret to be sure) of the "Stan Lee Copies" Stan always said if he knew comics would be worth so much, he would have saved his. And then there is the story of how his collection was water damaged in the basement. My personal opinion is that he was offerred a chance to market 'his' collection, and it consisted of a box or two that he still had plus other stuff thrown in. Im just too cynical I know.

 

but - - even with Stan saying he never kept any and losing many to water damage, It isnt too hard to believe that 1) Stan did accumulate boxes of books he took home over the years, etc, and that 2) not ALL of them were waterlogged. Also, Stan lived on Long Island in the 60s, so any Stan Lee copies from later on could easily have been "his" copies from home, or LA or the NY office. So, I can believe that STan had a few hundred Marvels sitting around.

 

It's been noted numerous times that these are the comics that he referenced as a writer. They're not really from his personal collection per se but are byproducts of his working arrangement with Marvel. (He worked at home writing scripts and also in the office.) It makes sense that he would have copies of the books at home, etc. especially since villains started repeating and cross-overs started happening. It must have been difficult to keep track of all appearances, etc. after the first couple of years as the line expanded.

[Aman619]

Im sure neded the books to know what he wrote LAST MONTH!

[weirdling-migration]

I sure hope he didn't do all of those endless references to page numbers strictly from memory! That would be a little scary.

[MasterChief]

Interesting. I would like to believe that as well.

 

But belief, based on personal feelings, and fact, based on documented research, are two different things.

 

Case in point. When Stan's personal collection was brought to market, a collection which included comic books and artwork, of which an original Charles Schultz oil painting was part thereof.

 

The painting was promoted by Heritage as the only known oil work by Schultz. Which, as one can imagine, created quite the collectable interest. The painting, however, was pulled from the October 2002 auction after a last minute allegation from the Charles Shultz estate insisting that the painting was not authentic.

 

Fast forward April 2004. Heritage re-offers the controversial piece at auction only after being fully satisfied as to the works' authenticity. Documented provenance based on investigative research which, among other things, included a photo of the painting at the original 1965 auction where Stan won the item.

 

Was this particular item rushed to auction based on consigner's reputation and marketable publicity. Is there a fiduciary and ethical responsibility in proving authenticity when auctioning items, or for that matter, certifying a comic book pedigree. Where the comic books certified and labeled 'Stan Lee File Copy' based on the word of Heritage vis-a-vis Stan Lee. Are controls and measures in place to validate claims regarding provenance. Legitimate questions all...because when you get right down to it, and I'm sure all will agree, there is a distinct difference in the market value of an item that is or is not authentic.

 

In the end, it all worked out for the Shultz piece. The question was eliminated. A potential material impact avoided had the original auction gone forward.

 

As far as Stan's personal comic book collection goes; a collection that contained every major key number one from the Marvel Silver Age; a collection that was advertised as being, by Stan's own admission, "the only copies of these key books that I've saved"; a collection which received the coveted pedigree status, and a collection, in my view, that is now in question by a 30-year old revelation.

 

For those who are interested in such things, I am providing a link to the September 1971 Rolling Stone article which references the aforementioned ruined comic book collection.

 

The article was penned by former Marvel staffer, Robin Green. Who, by the way, was the replacement for Flo Steinberg, Stan Lee's Silver Age secretary. Ms. Green is currently the executive producer of The Sopranos.

 

Rolling Stone Vol. 1, #91 (Sep 16, 1971)

[AlexH]

MC,

 

Do you have something against Stan Lee? You seem really intent on trying to knock his reputation. Just wondering, not trying to accuse you of anything.

[Norrin_Radd]

MC,

 

Do you have something against Stan Lee? You seem really intent on trying to knock his reputation. Just wondering, not trying to accuse you of anything.

 

Well, he did get Jack Kirby and Joe Simon fired. And then he took over their jobs working for his uncle at Timely. Rotten little brat!