I just soiled myself.....and I couldn't be happier.

[Captain Tripps]

October,

 

When I was packing my father's car to drive up to Albany to start college (he was taking me on the 2 hour drive), my father caught wind that I was bringing my US Bong (probably sticking out of a gym bag). He confiscated it as he didn't want to promote or "acquiesce" my smoking/partying at school. Unbeknownst to dad, I had a hookah I had bought in the Arab Market during my trip to Isreal the previous summer. Scared the [embarrassing lack of self control] out of every freshman that first few nights who were like "what the hell is that 6 tentacled thing".

 

You gotta improvise, buddy. That's the name of the game!!

 

Doug

[Scheradon]

Scott, if it's a service they offer, then they should simply advertise the fact that it's one that they offer, to everyone. Simple.

 

Heck, they don't even have to answer questions about it in the thread. Just pin an announcement at the top or add it to services offered.

 

It's not listed here.I assume it's not a service they offer to the general public.....

 

 

No, I don't buy that. I don't think CGC should have to "advertise" the fact that they make mistakes sometimes. I think a willingness to review a book where the customer feels a mistake was made is enough.

 

Ok, Scott, since you are apparently the CGC spokesman (spin doctor ), how do you percieve this "review for mistakes" theory when it comes to regrades? Can you explain the difference for someone who resubs a 9.6 for a regrade in an attempt for a 9.8 as opposed to someone who submits a 9.6 for a 9.8 review?

 

Either way, someone would obviously feel CGC made a "mistake", so why would anyone go the regrade route? The review way would retain the same serial number, most likely also atleast retain the previous grade if it is not found to be worthy of the grade bump (rather than chance going down in grade), and according to your theory get done at little cost to the submitter (unlike a regrade).

[Scheradon]

Doug,

 

How did you find out about this type of service and do you know if they will perform this type of review for other areas of a book, like grade, resto check, pedigree status, etc?

 

And one last question, what does this review check cost? Is it based on the value of the book or a flat rate per book?

 

I lied, another question

 

Do you know if a book sent in for a review can be downgraded rather than upgraded? For instance, sending in a OW book for a PQ review and it comming back Cream to OW.

 

Thanks,

John

[october]

October,

 

When I was packing my father's car to drive up to Albany to start college (he was taking me on the 2 hour drive), my father caught wind that I was bringing my US Bong (probably sticking out of a gym bag). He confiscated it as he didn't want to promote or "acquiesce" my smoking/partying at school. Unbeknownst to dad, I had a hookah I had bought in the Arab Market during my trip to Isreal the previous summer. Scared the [embarrassing lack of self control] out of every freshman that first few nights who were like "what the hell is that 6 tentacled thing".

 

You gotta improvise, buddy. That's the name of the game!!

 

Doug

 

I should have expected a post like this from a guy with your screen name.

[FlyingDonut]

October,

 

When I was packing my father's car to drive up to Albany to start college (he was taking me on the 2 hour drive), my father caught wind that I was bringing my US Bong (probably sticking out of a gym bag). He confiscated it as he didn't want to promote or "acquiesce" my smoking/partying at school. Unbeknownst to dad, I had a hookah I had bought in the Arab Market during my trip to Isreal the previous summer. Scared the [embarrassing lack of self control] out of every freshman that first few nights who were like "what the hell is that 6 tentacled thing".

 

You gotta improvise, buddy. That's the name of the game!!

 

Doug

 

I should have expected a post like this from a guy with your screen name.

 

Captain Tripps is the old skool nickname for Jerry Garcia from the Dead's acid test days, but you knew that. Always happy to have an excuse to put some cool Dead footage up.

[namisgr]

Captain Tripps is the old skool nickname for Jerry Garcia from the Dead's acid test days, but you knew that. Always happy to have an excuse to put some cool Dead footage up.

 

Cool stuff, FD, but not enough Pigpen!

[cmon_quit_it-migration]

October,

 

When I was packing my father's car to drive up to Albany to start college (he was taking me on the 2 hour drive), my father caught wind that I was bringing my US Bong (probably sticking out of a gym bag). He confiscated it as he didn't want to promote or "acquiesce" my smoking/partying at school. Unbeknownst to dad, I had a hookah I had bought in the Arab Market during my trip to Isreal the previous summer. Scared the [embarrassing lack of self control] out of every freshman that first few nights who were like "what the hell is that 6 tentacled thing".

 

You gotta improvise, buddy. That's the name of the game!!

 

Doug

 

I should have expected a post like this from a guy with your screen name.

 

Captain Tripps is the old skool nickname for Jerry Garcia from the Dead's acid test days, but you knew that. Always happy to have an excuse to put some cool Dead footage up.

 

No kidding! Didn't know that.

When I see that screen name, I think of the infectious superflu disease from Stephen King's novel "The Stand". This is a man-made disease that is universally and swiftly fatal to those who catch it. There are very few who are immune to it, but those who are are resilient and tenacious.

So be careful out there!

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

What started out as a infantile joke title has turned into a monster thread that causes everyone to log into Comics General and read:

 

I SOILED MYSELF... AND I COULDN'T BE HAPPIER

 

Every single day.

 

Thank you, thank you, I take full credit for that.

[Lantern]

October,

 

When I was packing my father's car to drive up to Albany to start college (he was taking me on the 2 hour drive), my father caught wind that I was bringing my US Bong (probably sticking out of a gym bag). He confiscated it as he didn't want to promote or "acquiesce" my smoking/partying at school. Unbeknownst to dad, I had a hookah I had bought in the Arab Market during my trip to Isreal the previous summer. Scared the [embarrassing lack of self control] out of every freshman that first few nights who were like "what the hell is that 6 tentacled thing".

 

You gotta improvise, buddy. That's the name of the game!!

 

Doug

 

 

"Tell me who's your weedman, and how do you smoke so good?"

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

Scott & Mr Schmell, the phone-call scenario just isn’t working for me in these circumstances…in fairness, it doesn’t work for me in most circumstances.

 

This appears to me to be a service that is being offered and as such, should be made readily available to any potential buyer/user. It therefore should be advertised alongside all other services. One individual discovering the details via a 1-2-1 call with Steve Borock doesn’t even come close to putting this process out there for public consumption.

 

I think CGC want to be perceived rather like a Board of Standards, the people who set the rules and monitor adherence, raising the bar and thus making the hobby a safer place to play. However, with a Board of Standards, any muppet who cares to know can discover what the remit is, what the standards are, what processes are used. That’s not really the case with CGC, now, is it? We have no published standards and we have new processes/services being plucked, rabbit-like, from a hat. To highlight that last point, do you know whether the only person who can call for a ‘review’ is the original submitter themselves, or whether a future buyer can do the same thing? After all, if it’s a ‘mistake’, it’s the book that CGC made the mistake with, not the owner at the time of original submission, so surely anyone can ask for a ‘review’ of any book and (given that the FF #1 was graded five years ago) at any time in the future?

 

Y’know, that was rhetorical, wasn’t it, because like me, you have no idea. Which is the whole point…we have no idea how this ‘service’ works and in what circumstances. But we should, and we must, if CGC’s intention is to assist the buyer of graded books to know ‘precisely what they’re buying’. And that’s what their advertising campaign has always claimed, so why are they assisting in clouding the issue?

 

Which leads me neatly into what we should be getting from CGC, and what we’re actually getting.

 

So many sellers on eBay claim that they don’t take returns on slabbed items because ‘you know what you’re getting’. I could live with that, if it were actually the case, but we actually don’t know much more than we did pre-CGC, and we have the same potential pitfalls. It might be in a blue label, and it might say 9.2 with Off-White pages, but it might bear no resemblance to the next 9.2 with Off-White pages in a universal slab.

 

It might have been slabbed at a time when grading was ‘loose’. Or when the lighting wasn’t so good in the PQ checking department. It might be trimmed, but the trimmer was too good with the blade. It might have been submitted by Nelson or Schmell, so it’s likely been ironed flat, or by Lauterbach, so it may actually be restored. It may be the book’s first time in plastic, or its third, or fifth. It might previously have been a 6.0…and then an 8.0…and then a Qualified 8.5. It might have been a 9.2 when it was encased, but now it’s an 8.0 because of slab damage.

 

Bottom line, despite what the label might suggest, unfortunately, not all Blue Label 9.2s are created equal, and the only way to address most of these concerns is with information, information that is being withheld by CGC.

 

It’s now becoming the same old krap-shoot (‘Guarantee’? What ‘Guarantee’?) it was prior to CGC’s inception. To combat this, and to make CGC’s ad campaign ring at least partially true, they need to open up and offer the following information…

 

(1) Their grading standards and how and when they have changed over the last five years.

(2) The precise steps taken, in view of Ewertgate, to better identify restoration.

(3) The additional services they offer beyond standard submissions, in what circumstances, to whom and for what cost.

(4) The opening up of all submission details again.

(5) The scanning of all future submissions and the compilation of an ongoing database.

(6) The inclusion of all known details relating to the book on the label, including prior submissions, the results and the dates.

(7) The identification and disclosure of pressed books where known.

 

There are certainly other steps to be taken, and I’m sure plenty of people will chime in, but none of this is going to get addressed if I or anybody else call Steve Borock to shoot the sh!te.

 

Scott, that’s a great way of getting ‘insider info’, but isn’t that most of the problem right now?

[divad]

October,

 

When I was packing my father's car to drive up to Albany to start college (he was taking me on the 2 hour drive), my father caught wind that I was bringing my US Bong (probably sticking out of a gym bag). He confiscated it as he didn't want to promote or "acquiesce" my smoking/partying at school. Unbeknownst to dad, I had a hookah I had bought in the Arab Market during my trip to Isreal the previous summer. Scared the [embarrassing lack of self control] out of every freshman that first few nights who were like "what the hell is that 6 tentacled thing".

 

You gotta improvise, buddy. That's the name of the game!!

 

Doug

 

Doug,

 

Perhaps it's who you are, but I don't think coming on here and answering questions like your one of the 12-year olds on the Boards really achieves anything. The shallowness and evasivenesss of your responses is consistent with somone who seeks to avoid facing reality.

 

And, as a Dead Head of long standing . . . I say give Jerry his name back - you share nothing with Captain Tripps.

 

-David

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Nick, great post!

 

I have for the most part been on the side advocating that "collecting is better now then before CGC: the good still outweighs the bad". But considering the moving targets of grading standards, the accuracy of restoration checks, the possibility of multiple resubs, its become very hard to gauge whether thats true anymore.

 

For instance, the last two graded books I bought were greeted very differently when I opened the packages they arrived in:

 

1). "Wow, thats a nice 4.0. Restoration indeed looks slight. Awesome!"

2). "Damn thats a shoddy looking 9.2. Looked better in the scan. Maybe its an 8.5 on a good day. Glad I didn't pay a premium for it."

 

To be honest, it reminds me of the times when I just bought raw comics through the mail; one might be a pleasant surprise, one might be a huge letdown. At least reputable dealers honored a return policy for the times you were dissappointed. How many people will take a certified book back on a return?

 

I agree that you really don't know what you are getting with a CGC product, and I've come to be much more skeptical of the average graded book then of the average raw book from a trusted dealer like Bob Storms. Let's count all the avenues of diligence one can proceed down before contemplating a non-returnable CGC purchase:

 

- Is the scan big enough? Will the seller send me a larger one if it isn't? What about the back cover? Use the scan to insure the book looks right for the grade.

- Check the scan to insure no SCS.

- Pray that no SCS is incurred in transit to you.

- Check the resub list.

- Check the Ewert list.

- Check the Heritage archives.

- Check GPA, not just for prices, but to see if pedigree copies (if that's what you are buying) are showing up for the same copy under multiple grades (resub).

- Call CGC for grader's notes. Hope there is no large discrepency (sometimes as much as a full grade) between graders. Hope that 2 of the 3 thought it was at least the assigned grade.

 

It really just becomes a pain in the .

 

After six years, and especially since I no longer play the high grade game, I think CGC vs. pre-CGC is a wash.

[Red Hook]

Super post Nick!

 

I'd suggest we dispense with the tired "give Steve a call" baloney once and for all. Make any and all information about services offered public. And advertise it. End of story.

[skybolt]

With respect to calling CGC to discuss various issues, it is a little difficult for those of us who have 8:00 to 5:00 office jobs. For instance, I once e-mailed Steve regarding submitting books with potential overhangs. He very politely sent me an e-mail asking me to call him between 2:00 and 3:00 P.M. the following day to discuss. Since I didn't want anyone in the office to hear me talking about comic books during work hours, I went into the conference room to gain some privacy. Unfortunately, Steve was away from his desk both times I called. I also didn't want to leave a message since I would have to take the return call at my desk, and have co-workers listen in on my conversation.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible to find 20 to 30 minutes to call CGC and discuss certain issues during business hours, but it would be a lot more convenient if these items were listed on their website, or an e-mail reply was sent upon request. In hindsight, I guess I could've e-mailed Steve again to schedule another appointment for a one on one conversation, but didn't want the same thing to happen again.

[FFB]

Super post Nick!

 

I'd suggest we dispense with the tired "give Steve a call" baloney once and for all. Make any and all information about services offered public. And advertise it. End of story.

 

And I will disregard your suggestion. But not to single you out -- this is really in response to all the posts this morning from the "We won't call CGC" brigade.

 

Those who won't call Steve and ask whatever questions they might have simply don't want answers IMO. They just want to complain, and calling and getting answers would rob them of the opportunity to do that -- oh, and they'd have to be polite on the phone, too, unlike here where they can accuse CGC of being corrupt spin doctors and in bed with all the BSDs, etc.! Zoinks!

 

Make all the excuses you want, bat the ball back into CGC's court all you want, be as passive-aggressive as you want, tell me that you can't call during 8-5 even though you post on the boards all the time during 8-5, but this is what it boils down to. You guys say you want answers, but you don't, really. If you really wanted answers, you'd pick up the phone. If you wanted to make sure the answers you received got shared, you'd make a post for the boards announcing what you were told (as I have seen Zeman, OldGuy, and many others do over the years when they were actually looking for answers). But that would make it tough to continue to play the part of the "victimized non-BSD collector" here, and that is apparently unacceptable.

 

Anyway, I think I've wasted enough time on this discussion. I don't expect to change any of your minds anyway, but I did want to get that off my chest. I feel much better.

[Sal]

Super post Nick!

 

I'd suggest we dispense with the tired "give Steve a call" baloney once and for all. Make any and all information about services offered public. And advertise it. End of story.

 

And I will disregard your suggestion. But not to single you out -- this is really in response to all the posts this morning from the "We won't call CGC" brigade.

 

Those who won't call Steve and ask whatever questions they might have simply don't want answers IMO. They just want to complain, and calling and getting answers would rob them of the opportunity to do that -- oh, and they'd have to be polite on the phone, too, unlike here where they can accuse CGC of being corrupt spin doctors and in bed with all the BSDs, etc.! Zoinks!

 

Make all the excuses you want, bat the ball back into CGC's court all you want, be as passive-aggressive as you want, tell me that you can't call during 8-5 even though you post on the boards all the time during 8-5, but this is what it boils down to. You guys say you want answers, but you don't, really. If you really wanted answers, you'd pick up the phone. If you wanted to make sure the answers you received got shared, you'd make a post for the boards announcing what you were told (as I have seen Zeman, OldGuy, and many others do over the years when they were actually looking for answers). But that would make it tough to continue to play the part of the "victimized non-BSD collector" here, and that is apparently unacceptable.

 

Anyway, I think I've wasted enough time on this discussion. I don't expect to change any of your minds anyway, but I did want to get that off my chest. I feel much better.

 

i'm scared of the phone. it wants my soul to feed on

[divad]

Those who won't call Steve and ask whatever questions they might have simply don't want answers IMO. They just want to complain, and calling and getting answers would rob them of the opportunity to do that -- oh, and they'd have to be polite on the phone, too, unlike here where they can accuse CGC of being corrupt spin doctors and in bed with all the BSDs, etc.! Zoinks!

 

Make all the excuses you want, bat the ball back into CGC's court all you want, be as passive-aggressive as you want, tell me that you can't call during 8-5 even though you post on the boards all the time during 8-5, but this is what it boils down to. You guys say you want answers, but you don't, really. If you really wanted answers, you'd pick up the phone. If you wanted to make sure the answers you received got shared, you'd make a post for the boards announcing what you were told (as I have seen Zeman, OldGuy, and many others do over the years when they were actually looking for answers). But that would make it tough to continue to play the part of the "victimized non-BSD collector" here, and that is apparently unacceptable.

 

Anyway, I think I've wasted enough time on this discussion. I don't expect to change any of your minds anyway, but I did want to get that off my chest. I feel much better.

 

BALDERDASH!

 

Scott,

 

I agree (but I just had to say that for some reason) As you know, I've called CGC many times to ask about their grading. In fact, I've called them a zillion times. I would venture to say that I've spoken with every member of the staff personally (except for Newt and Timely).

 

However, when I am calling I am generally inquiring as to the status of a book, asking for grades, or reviewing grader notes and asking specific questions about the books I submitted, or have an interest in buying. Call me crazy, but in all of those phone calls, I've never thought of asking for additional services not listed on their website.

 

I have spoken with many of the graders about the severity of defects, how they impact the grade, and even whether they exist or not . . . Universally the response is, "Crack it out. Take a look at it. If you don't agree with our grading or think we made a mistake, re-submit it. I appreciate both the service and the product, but I am still bent out of shape by the instances of special treatment which have been afforded many CGC Charter members and dealers.

 

[Paul_Maul]

 

I have for the most part been on the side advocating that "collecting is better now then before CGC: the good still outweighs the bad...

 

...To be honest, it reminds me of the times when I just bought raw comics through the mail; one might be a pleasant surprise, one might be a huge letdown. At least reputable dealers honored a return policy for the times you were dissappointed. How many people will take a certified book back on a return?

 

 

I think from the standpoint only of the actual state of the book, I am still more confident that

a CGC 9.6 will be a book I'll be happy with than the average dealer's raw NM+.

 

But I think the key is: when you're paying 3 - 5x guide for a book based on an expectation that

it is high grade and unrestored, the margin for error is almost nil. The bottom line is, I have

very little confidence I will be happy with a 9.6 purchased sight unseen off of ebay, and I

have greatly curtailed such purchases as a result. This is mostly based on SCS and

"recycling of dogs", and doesn't even factor in undisclosed shenanigans.

 

As you say, at least pre-CGC you could return books and you had a chance of finding

nice high grade books without a sky-high multiple.

[drbanner]

Super post Nick!

 

I'd suggest we dispense with the tired "give Steve a call" baloney once and for all. Make any and all information about services offered public. And advertise it. End of story.

 

And I will disregard your suggestion. But not to single you out -- this is really in response to all the posts this morning from the "We won't call CGC" brigade.

 

Those who won't call Steve and ask whatever questions they might have simply don't want answers IMO. They just want to complain, and calling and getting answers would rob them of the opportunity to do that -- oh, and they'd have to be polite on the phone, too, unlike here where they can accuse CGC of being corrupt spin doctors and in bed with all the BSDs, etc.! Zoinks!

 

Make all the excuses you want, bat the ball back into CGC's court all you want, be as passive-aggressive as you want, tell me that you can't call during 8-5 even though you post on the boards all the time during 8-5, but this is what it boils down to. You guys say you want answers, but you don't, really. If you really wanted answers, you'd pick up the phone. If you wanted to make sure the answers you received got shared, you'd make a post for the boards announcing what you were told (as I have seen Zeman, OldGuy, and many others do over the years when they were actually looking for answers). But that would make it tough to continue to play the part of the "victimized non-BSD collector" here, and that is apparently unacceptable.

 

Anyway, I think I've wasted enough time on this discussion. I don't expect to change any of your minds anyway, but I did want to get that off my chest. I feel much better.

Not calling to get answers to one's questions accomplishes...nothing. From my experience, calling CGC and asking questions accomplishes...something. Therefore, suggesting one call CGC to get answers to their burning questions is a great suggestion that would, at a minimum, allow them to post the answers here. Now, if they're really sharp they might even suggest CGC provide that information on their website!

 

Truth be told though, it's a lot easier to post one's complaints and questions here, even though everyone is well aware by now that Steve has been driven from responding to such inquiries by how his responses were received in the past. I think that's why Schechter stepped in a while back as a "buffer" to provide a more formal question/answer process, but in the end, it looks like CGC deemed it not worth it to respond.

[october]

October,

 

When I was packing my father's car to drive up to Albany to start college (he was taking me on the 2 hour drive), my father caught wind that I was bringing my US Bong (probably sticking out of a gym bag). He confiscated it as he didn't want to promote or "acquiesce" my smoking/partying at school. Unbeknownst to dad, I had a hookah I had bought in the Arab Market during my trip to Isreal the previous summer. Scared the [embarrassing lack of self control] out of every freshman that first few nights who were like "what the hell is that 6 tentacled thing".

 

You gotta improvise, buddy. That's the name of the game!!

 

Doug

 

I should have expected a post like this from a guy with your screen name.

 

Captain Tripps is the old skool nickname for Jerry Garcia from the Dead's acid test days, but you knew that. Always happy to have an excuse to put some cool Dead footage up.

 

With 100+ hours of GD concert tapes on my shelf, I would hope I knew that!

 

Did you see that Vince Welnick died?