War Comics 17 17

[comick1]

Hi Folks,

I started off collecting DC war in high grade 22 years ago. It began with Enemy Ace stuff. I quickly expanded to virtually everything between 1954-1969 for the DC war titles. I have about 90% of the 12¢ers and 15¢ers, but only about 45% of the 10¢ers. The way I figure it, I am likely to go my whole life and never complete them all. That thing about finding only 3 or so copies a year in grade that Andy alluded to has been my life for the past decade or so. In the last few years, it's been a little bit easier than that--though certainly no cheaper (with some notable exceptions) starting with Keith's collection going to Heritage in 2007.

 

I can name about 6 occasions since that time when a spate of DC war in grade appeared, whether assembled piecemeal (Andy's and Keith's jaw-dropping groups at Heritage and Clink as well as Brent's sale on these very boards back in 2008) or via original owner (Mound City, Savannah, and Twin City stand out prominently). All of that happened in the last 5 years. Previous to that, there were NO piecemeal collections from 1989 to 2007, and about four OO collections between 1989 and 2007 (that I'm aware of). That's 18 years. The big ones I'm thinking of are the Newsboys (Motor City), Massachusetts, and Salida groups. If you consider the Bethlehems, Circle 8s, River Cities, Kubert runs and a few others, you might have a 4th group between ALL of them. I might be missing something, but not sure.

 

If you look at the Gerber Photojournal Guide under a 10X lupe, you can see "Bethlehem" on the GI Combats. It's hard to see any defects when the thumbnails are so small, but they DO look pretty nice. Except for about 3 issues (including the OFF #1 that passed through my hands), I have seen NOTHING of those Bethlehems. Hasn't stopped me from wondering a LOT about them over the years.

Edited June 21, 2011 by Comick1

[Larryw7]

Here's my one and only SA war book, which I bought mainly for the cover. I liked the interior art so much that I may have to eventually buy more of these books.

 

 

 

Fantastic cover.

 

It was used for the cover of one of Gary Carter's Comic Book Marketplace mags in the nineties, and I've wanted a copy since.

[thirdgreenham]

Thanks for sharing, Mick. (thumbs u

 

It's true that since Keith sold his collection that more high grade books came after that. A collection of this magnitude of high grade DC war had never been offered before (ttbomk), and collectors snatched them up creating all-time high prices for these. High prices brings more out more nice books from the woodwork, an that's exactly what had started happening. Great books were coming to market, not necessarily at great prices, but were available if you wanted them.

 

I picked up many of Keith's books because I had no idea when I would see anything like that again.

 

Andy

[Flash105]

So in the last day, four people have declared they are trying to get them all just on the boards. I can see why supply is tight.

[bigfiver69]

There was a time that I thought I would never be able to get them all, but part if what makes it possible now is that influx of great high grade books in recent years has made the midgrade really affordable. I certainly envy the high grade copies but it just isn't affordable for me... Still, I love seeing the high grade copies here on the boards.

 

Mick - any idea where those Bethlehem GICs might have gone? And how many other HG DC silver age collections with genre books are still out there?

 

Other question is... When will HG prices peak on a genre that largely appeals to an aging demographic?

 

Shep

Edited June 21, 2011 by bigfiver69

[comick1]

Thanks for sharing, Mick. (thumbs u

 

It's true that since Keith sold his collection that more high grade books came after that. A collection of this magnitude of high grade DC war had never been offered before (ttbomk), and collectors snatched them up creating all-time high prices for these. High prices brings more out more nice books from the woodwork, an that's exactly what had started happening. Great books were coming to market, not necessarily at great prices, but were available if you wanted them.

 

I picked up many of Keith's books because I had no idea when I would see anything like that again.

 

Andy

 

Yeah, I picked up a number of Keith's books on that premise as well. If I had more money, I'd have scooped a lot more than I did. There was a VERY long dry spell between any substantial collection coming to market and Keith's initial Heritage offering. In some ways, that's a bit deceptive because frankly, many of Keith's books from that 2007 auction have "made the rounds" quite a few times. I passed on some because they were already in my collection, but I recall thinking that if they were one issue before or after, I'd have bid competitively on them. Then I'd see that same book offered up for sale in subsequent auctions. It gave the impression that there was a "flooding" of the market with high grade copies when it was--in many cases--the same copies trading hands.

 

I'm not going to shoot my mouth off about which ones you NEVER see in any of the auctions (or even buried in friends' collections) because those same issues have eluded me (surprisingly enough) for the past 22 years. Suffice to say that these "elusive" issues are right in the runs and sometimes in unexpected places. I don't think there are many 15¢ers that are genuinely tough in anything but 9.6 or 9.8, but there are 12¢ers aplenty that don't have a single copy above 8.0 and I've never seen a high grade raw copy of them in collections either.

 

With 10¢ers, virtually every one of 'em is truly tough in grade, but for some reason there are a few that just can't seem to find a home [because all the serious collectors ALREADY have a copy??]. For some reason, I've seen OFF 12 in 8.0 or better numerous times. Not sure if it's the SAME OFF 12, but there's an example of a fantastic 10¢ book in grade that just can't find a good home. Does each of the high grade collectors on these boards have that? I'd be all over it if it were a couple issues above or below it, but I have a copy of #12 so I don't need it.

 

Anyway, a few of us ultra-geeks have speculated about whether a SINGLE complete collection of war books in high grade could ever be assembled if you put all the high grade war collections together. I, for one, am not convinced, that it COULD be assembled. The CGC census and our collective observations of each others' collections would suggest that quite a few holes exist. You hear national dealers sometimes discussing very discrete collectors who have "buried" their collections for decades, but do these collectors have the war books?

 

[bill977]

i am not sure i would have attempted this undertaking had i not bought several war lots from j and s comics in the 1991-2 era.i recall getting all the gi combats from 105-200 for under 125.00, a major chunk of oaaw 130-200 for around 200.00 and 2 or 3 lots of ssws sans dino issues very cheap. condition ranged from vg to vf. i had this mistaken notion of working all the dc comics from 1959 up and discarded that idea last century. but i am glad i picked up them war lots when i did. then life stuff kept happening the turn of this century and comics took a back seat until a yr or so ago. of course dummy me had to rush and fill in all the dino issues before i finished gi combat or oaaw. what a mistake as those seemed to be real common,once i finished my ssws 90-137 run.as soon as i completed my jla run all super-hero books are on hold. course i wouldnt mind a run of funny stuff with dodo and the frog,all american western,all star western,western comics.

[MrBedrock]

I think a complete collection can be put together. And a high grade one (7.0 or better) at that. You just have to be diligent. And really throw some money at it. That is what Keith did. He put that collection together in a relatively short amount of time (under five years). He made it very clear that he would pay more than anyone. He never turned a book down either. Because of that, for the years preceding his sale, every high grade war book that went anywhere near a dealer was immediately offered to Keith. And he was over 90% complete through the 12 centers when he sold. He has since completed the G.I. Combats and Rock Our Army at Wars again, all in killer shape. So it can be done.

[Justin Case]

Thanks for sharing, Mick. (thumbs u

 

It's true that since Keith sold his collection that more high grade books came after that. A collection of this magnitude of high grade DC war had never been offered before (ttbomk), and collectors snatched them up creating all-time high prices for these. High prices brings more out more nice books from the woodwork, an that's exactly what had started happening. Great books were coming to market, not necessarily at great prices, but were available if you wanted them.

 

I picked up many of Keith's books because I had no idea when I would see anything like that again.

 

Andy

 

Yeah, I picked up a number of Keith's books on that premise as well. If I had more money, I'd have scooped a lot more than I did. There was a VERY long dry spell between any substantial collection coming to market and Keith's initial Heritage offering. In some ways, that's a bit deceptive because frankly, many of Keith's books from that 2007 auction have "made the rounds" quite a few times. I passed on some because they were already in my collection, but I recall thinking that if they were one issue before or after, I'd have bid competitively on them. Then I'd see that same book offered up for sale in subsequent auctions. It gave the impression that there was a "flooding" of the market with high grade copies when it was--in many cases--the same copies trading hands.

 

I'm not going to shoot my mouth off about which ones you NEVER see in any of the auctions (or even buried in friends' collections) because those same issues have eluded me (surprisingly enough) for the past 22 years. Suffice to say that these "elusive" issues are right in the runs and sometimes in unexpected places. I don't think there are many 15¢ers that are genuinely tough in anything but 9.6 or 9.8, but there are 12¢ers aplenty that don't have a single copy above 8.0 and I've never seen a high grade raw copy of them in collections either.

 

With 10¢ers, virtually every one of 'em is truly tough in grade, but for some reason there are a few that just can't seem to find a home [because all the serious collectors ALREADY have a copy??]. For some reason, I've seen OFF 12 in 8.0 or better numerous times. Not sure if it's the SAME OFF 12, but there's an example of a fantastic 10¢ book in grade that just can't find a good home. Does each of the high grade collectors on these boards have that? I'd be all over it if it were a couple issues above or below it, but I have a copy of #12 so I don't need it.

 

Anyway, a few of us ultra-geeks have speculated about whether a SINGLE complete collection of war books in high grade could ever be assembled if you put all the high grade war collections together. I, for one, am not convinced, that it COULD be assembled. The CGC census and our collective observations of each others' collections would suggest that quite a few holes exist. You hear national dealers sometimes discussing very discrete collectors who have "buried" their collections for decades, but do these collectors have the war books?

 

Yes there are issues that are just not offered for sale in high grade although many of them dont have high graded issues in the first place. Take OAAW #73 which according to Chris Pedrins 'Big Five' book is listed as 'highly significant' in the development of the Sgt.Rock character. I saw one on ebay way back in 2000 or 2001 in 8.5 and i was outbid in the last second when i thought no-one would outbid me. Since then there has only been 1 more 8.5(im assuming its not the same copy) and this will probably be the highest graded copy. No wonder i havent seen it for sale since. If a copy does turn up again well all i can say is

[thirdgreenham]

I think a complete collection can be put together. And a high grade one (7.0 or better) at that. You just have to be diligent. And really throw some money at it. That is what Keith did. He put that collection together in a relatively short amount of time (under five years). He made it very clear that he would pay more than anyone. He never turned a book down either. Because of that, for the years preceding his sale, every high grade war book that went anywhere near a dealer was immediately offered to Keith. And he was over 90% complete through the 12 centers when he sold. He has since completed the G.I. Combats and Rock Our Army at Wars again, all in killer shape. So it can be done.

 

I think that you would still have about 10-20 holes if you were to keep your criteria at 8.0 and up.

 

That's just my @ss talking, mind you.

[bigfiver69]

One thing that the steadier stream of high grade books has surely done has been to drive interest in the genre, and to bring more lower and mid grade books out. 7 or 8 years ago, eBay would have 100-200 OAAW books listed at any time, and in the past year there have been times when over 1000 have been listed at a time.

 

Again, not much early stuff in high grade there, but totally respectable books at sometimes startlingly low prices over the past 18 months. It's been really wonderful.

 

So... Will prices continue to rise on the high grade? Or will the level and drop over time?

 

Shep

[MrBedrock]

It is a chicken and egg thing. If the books come on the market, and there is interest, and the availability of books does spark interest, and the interest demands more books, which do come out and spark more interest, etc. etc. etc., then prices will continue to rise.

 

If not, then we get them all to ourselves!

[adamstrange]

I think a complete collection can be put together. And a high grade one (7.0 or better) at that. You just have to be diligent. And really throw some money at it. That is what Keith did. He put that collection together in a relatively short amount of time (under five years). He made it very clear that he would pay more than anyone. He never turned a book down either. Because of that, for the years preceding his sale, every high grade war book that went anywhere near a dealer was immediately offered to Keith. And he was over 90% complete through the 12 centers when he sold. He has since completed the G.I. Combats and Rock Our Army at Wars again, all in killer shape. So it can be done.

I have been amazed at what he has been able to acquire as I believe this 2nd or 3rd attempt at the collection seems to be even higher grade than the first.

[comick1]

I think a complete collection can be put together. And a high grade one (7.0 or better) at that. You just have to be diligent. And really throw some money at it. That is what Keith did. He put that collection together in a relatively short amount of time (under five years). He made it very clear that he would pay more than anyone. He never turned a book down either. Because of that, for the years preceding his sale, every high grade war book that went anywhere near a dealer was immediately offered to Keith. And he was over 90% complete through the 12 centers when he sold. He has since completed the G.I. Combats and Rock Our Army at Wars again, all in killer shape. So it can be done.

I have been amazed at what he has been able to acquire as I believe this 2nd or 3rd attempt at the collection seems to be even higher grade than the first.

 

It is inDEED truly amazing what Keith's scored in the last 5 years. A Herculean task to be sure. I still say that there are issues here and there that just don't exist in high grade. . .nothing in the census or in people's collections that I've ever seen above a 6.0. . .and I am talking about the AAMOWs, OFFs, and SSWSs, here, too.

That said, Keith's collection is as monumental as it gets. Truly staggering!

 

 

[Jeffro.]

Before joining the boards in 2005, I never really considered trying to collect all the big five titles. Since then I decided to try to do it and then after some consideration decided abandon the effort. While I love war comics and it remains probably my favorite genre, there are lots of war comics I have little to no interest in collecting. These are comics such as the dino issues of SSWS (excepting 90), any OFF from 52 (71 excepting) to 132 (start of Severin on Losers), the Kirby OFFs, and AAMOW after 82.

 

I decided that completeness was not an important enough reason to buy bunches of comics that I had no interest in buying.

[bigfiver69]

Sane reasoning Jeff.

 

Part of my reason for wanting them all is that I have always wanted to write a gorgeous book about war comics in general, and DC war comics in particular. To do the kind of book I want, I sort of feel like I need a definitive collection to credibly write a definitive bool on the subject.

 

Ah, who am I kidding. I'm probably never going to get around to it... Life is just way too busy.

 

B

[OV]

I've very much enjoyed learning about the DC war comics recent history in these last few pages. (thumbs u It's interesting to me to also see what you long-time war comic collectors search for. I like Joe Kubert covers, Russ Heath covers, and am one issue away from having all the "last" issues of the big five.

 

I also like the first appearances of the major characters, and have the Enemy Ace ,the Losers, and the Unknown Soldier issues. (thumbs u I hope to get Sgt Rock and Johnny Cloud along with Mlle Marie, cause she's awesome.

 

 

[adamstrange]

Mlle Marie, cause she's awesome

Especially when drawn by Drucker!

[adamstrange]

It is inDEED truly amazing what Keith's scored in the last 5 years. A Herculean task to be sure.

Also true for another DC War collection put together by a Boardie.

[bill977]

It is inDEED truly amazing what Keith's scored in the last 5 years. A Herculean task to be sure.

Also true for another DC War collection put together by a Boardie.

in total agreement!