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Pressing project results--post here

Started by Matt Nelson,

355 posts in this topic

esquirecomics

esquirecomics

Posted
Posted
So I checked. Pressed.

 

Who were these dealers? What were the books? Who did the pressing? In the interest of full disclosure and all yeahok.gif and as the leader of this "call for full disclosure" camp, please enlighten us, as it is your duty, nay, obligation to educate the masses... popcorn.gif

 

And answer Matt's question instead of "tapdancing/sidestepping/deflecting - whatever term Ze-man wants to call it" around it: Are you just going by what these folks told you OR is there any sign of pressing on the books themselves, and if so, what was the telltale signs?

 

Me, tapdancing Matt's question? 27_laughing.gif What world do you live in? I love the fact that obviously what is good for the goose is not good for the gander.screwy.gif

 

Do you read what I write? The books are in CGC holders.

 

One book I remember specifically is Military Comics #38 CGC 9.4 Church copy. John Verzl confirmed to me it had been pressed. It had been his book. Who did the pressing? I have no idea. I don't care who pressed it. I bought the book from - surprise, surprise - Heritage. So, one could reasonably conclude that it was quite possible that Matt pressed it.

 

Notice, unlike so many others on "your" side or those who express "your" attitude, that I respond to direct questions even though this is not a "deposition". Too bad there is no reciprocity from the other camp.

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Darthdiesel

Darthdiesel

Posted
Posted
Do you read what I write?

 

Unfortunately, yes...every word. Good reading, may not agree with it all, parts stir me enough to post back in response, but I hold it in check for the majority of the time. Reiteration is such a waste of time, don't you think? tongue.gif

 

The books are in CGC holders.

 

what does that have to do with answering the questions about the book's history and provenance? Or that since they are in holders and HG, I should know by memory that 1) before and after scans of books increasing in slab grades are out there and 2) what these scans look like to be able to note evidence to the fact that they had been pressed?

 

One book I remember specifically is Military Comics #38 CGC 9.4 Church copy. John Verzl confirmed to me it had been pressed.

 

So he pressed it himself (doubtful)? Or is he GUESSING that he saw it at a higher grade on Heritage than when he held it and ASSUMED that it must have been pressed, not a resub and bonus grade?

 

It had been his book. Who did the pressing? I have no idea.

 

Neither does Verzyl or didn't you ask? confused-smiley-013.gif Shouldn't he have told you if he had definitely known for a FACT and how he KNEW or was it enough that you had another big name dealer in your pocket to pull out as a testimonial for your side and decided to move on without asking the tough questions posed to the "tell only, if asked" dealers?

 

I don't care who pressed it. I bought the book from - surprise, surprise - Heritage. So, one could reasonably conclude that it was quite possible that Matt pressed it.

 

Really? Matt's confirmed doing press jobs for Heritage? Heritage has pointed to Matt as their presser on staff and this is the first I'm hearing of this? insane.gif Your "reasonably conclude" looks like my "reaching" smile.gif Since Matt knowingly admit that he presses books and inevitably several high grade books make their way to Heritage, I see how your statement can end up being true 27_laughing.gif

 

Notice, unlike so many others on "your" side or those who express "your" attitude, that I respond to direct questions even though this is not a "deposition". Too bad there is no reciprocity from the other camp.

 

I'm not justifying how others conduct business here. Ask me anything about MY books and sales, and you'll get the full Scoop, just like all of my past and future customers. Not that you care much for my Bronze and later uber HG wares, which fall below your rareified threshold of interest.

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esquirecomics

esquirecomics

Posted
Posted
The books are in CGC holders.

 

what does that have to do with answering the questions about the book's history and provenance? Or that since they are in holders and HG, I should know by memory that 1) before and after scans of books increasing in slab grades are out there and 2) what these scans look like to be able to note evidence to the fact that they had been pressed?

 

Ok, so I told you what I know, but somehow it is incomplete and it is my fault? I bought the book from Heritage. Who owned it before that I do not know except that at one time Verzl did.

 

Personally, I can't tell when a book is within the holder much of anything. I can't tell whether it has been pressed. I can't tell if a coupon is missing either. I don't believe I've ever seen a before scan of the book though it might be on Heritage's website.

 

One book I remember specifically is Military Comics #38 CGC 9.4 Church copy. John Verzl confirmed to me it had been pressed.

 

So he pressed it himself (doubtful)? Or is he GUESSING that he saw it at a higher grade on Heritage than when he held it and ASSUMED that it must have been pressed, not a resub and bonus grade?

 

He said he knew the book had been pressed. If you want to question him about that, be my guest. He used to own the book.

 

It had been his book. Who did the pressing? I have no idea.

 

Neither does Verzyl or didn't you ask? confused-smiley-013.gif Shouldn't he have told you if he had definitely known for a FACT and how he KNEW or was it enough that you had another big name dealer in your pocket to pull out as a testimonial for your side and decided to move on without asking the tough questions posed to the "tell only, if asked" dealers?

 

What the heck are you talking about? For one thing this was last July. If you look at my website, I noted for this book that it had been pressed. That is its history. I disclosed the information as soon as I confirmed it from a PRIOR owner who told me emphatically it had been pressed. If you want to call Verzl a liar, that is an issue between you and him.

 

And if you want to assume I am merely pulling his name out of my back pocket to support my position, then that is an issue between you and yourself. Knock yourself out.

 

I don't care who pressed it. I bought the book from - surprise, surprise - Heritage. So, one could reasonably conclude that it was quite possible that Matt pressed it.

 

Really? Matt's confirmed doing press jobs for Heritage? Heritage has pointed to Matt as their presser on staff and this is the first I'm hearing of this? insane.gif Your "reasonably conclude" looks like my "reaching" smile.gif Since Matt knowingly admit that he presses books and inevitably several high grade books make their way to Heritage, I see how your statement can end up being true 27_laughing.gif

 

Did I say Matt has confirmed he pressed books for Heritage? I don't see that written anywhere. Matt does not reveal his customers, nor should he have to. If Matt wants to deny it, he can do so. If he wants to sue me for defamation, go right ahead. I don't care who pressed the book. Why do you care so much?

 

Notice, unlike so many others on "your" side or those who express "your" attitude, that I respond to direct questions even though this is not a "deposition". Too bad there is no reciprocity from the other camp.

 

I'm not justifying how others conduct business here. Ask me anything about MY books and sales, and you'll get the full Scoop, just like all of my past and future customers. Not that you care much for my Bronze and later uber HG wares, which fall below your rareified threshold of interest.

 

No, Darth, it is not your Bronze or later uber HG wares that I don't care much for.

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tth2

tth2

Posted
Posted
Hulk head hurt

 

Where are the pressing project result pictures? sign-rantpost.gifAre those being posted in other threads now?

 

I do want to see the results of everybody's experiments. Can those be posted somewhere please?

Yeah, I'm going to start a new thread and ask that everyone who submitted books to Matt to re-post their books and commentary there, so anyone who might have an interest in this from a technical point of view doesn't have to scroll through pages of pressing debates and flame wars.

 

Scans of the pre-pressed books, post-pressed books, owner's grades before, Matt's notes/commentary, and owner's assessments of the book post-pressing are all encouraged.

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esquirecomics

esquirecomics

Posted
Posted
Hey, let the record reflect I tried to take the non-project results discussion elsewhere! I guess not enough of my "foot soldiers" followed suit. 893naughty-thumb.gif27_laughing.gif

 

 

makepoint.gif

 

Hey, it was the best I could do to get some posting out of my system before I decide to post in Tim's new thread! devil.gif

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toro

toro

Posted
Posted
Hulk head hurt

 

Where are the pressing project result pictures? sign-rantpost.gifAre those being posted in other threads now?

 

I do want to see the results of everybody's experiments. Can those be posted somewhere please?

 

 

Ditto!

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jbud73

jbud73

Posted
Posted

893scratchchin-thumb.gif Ah it continues lol. While I understand the rationale behind the arguments, Scott in his summation (nice work counsellor) was essenitial correct. If Matt takes a stance that NDP is NOT restoration, then his positions subesquent to that are defensible and obviously harder to refute.

 

Is his position self-serving 27_laughing.gif sure it is, but comics are still an Unregulated market and the definitions are only enforced through public appeal and opinion. While I think the argument to keep the definition of restoration as inclusive and transparent as possible is vital, in practicality it will not stop Matt from pressing books. The only thing that will, is if it becomes financially unprofitable to do so.

 

So again on to the issue Jon Berk brought up and I have been pushing for months - disclosure. Here again Matt can tie, or rationalize his position NOT to openly disclose pressing based on his contradictory stance to the defining it as restoration. Again if he and the other dealers are taken to task however it may be that disclosure might become a more widely accepted demand in the marketplace. As I have often said, even if Matt et al state that pressing is not resto, its harder for them to refute that NDP is not actually occuring, especially when they are performing it.

 

As for Brad's comments. I think they are probably in part stemmed from what we have seen on the boards over the past few years as more and more information has surfaced regarding what individuals will attempt in order to raise the grade of a comic book and therefore sell it for more money - while still retainng the blue label.

 

I think its been apparant that the answer is, individuals are constantly trying to "hack" the system (pretty sure I was first to use this analogy hi.gif) The parallel as we saw previously with Jason Ewert was that he was obviously looking for every technique possible to accomplish this hacking. I can go throw the posts back in the naysayers faces ... "where's your proof, why would he do that, its too risky, it doesnt make sense in terms of risk reward" etc etc etc.

 

But here's the caveat to the pressing cabal that I can never get my head around. Many of the pressing dealers have trumped up the "CGC doesn't consider NDP restoration." "CGC has said one of the primary reasons is the inability to detect NDP at a high rate of consistency and validity" The underlying current that flows from these two statements is "CGC can't detect a technique that positively alters the grade they assess a comic book with consistency." ---- It must dawn on people that there, "might be other techniques that positively alter a grade CGC will give a comic book, yet cannot be detected."

 

The Caveat for me has been, Do the pressing dealers view NDP as not being restoration because they honestly believe it fails to meet a definition consistent with the term? OR, Do they feel this way because its undetectible? See because, if its the latter, then a consistent transparent definition has no weight they could really care less. For them it becomes all about detection and plausible deniability. I think its not a large assumption to think that there are enough people who sell comics that fall into this latter definition and that leads to exploring other methods to achieve similar results.

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Red Hook

Red Hook

Posted
Posted

I think its been apparant that the answer is, individuals are constantly trying to "hack" the system (pretty sure I was first to use this analogy hi.gif)

 

From March of 2004:

 

 

I consider that pretty big news if it's true! Either CGG thinks tdcomix slipped restored material past them, or that he Hacked the Slab!

 

New term: Slab-hacker. You might as well start to get familiar with it.

 

 

From August of 2005:

 

[Referring to Ewert's trying to slip trimmed books past CGC]

 

It's as if hackers (no pun intended) had invaded a banking system and started siphoning off $$$ from personal accounts (which in a way is what is happening - dishonestly). What does the bank do?

 

 

wink.gif

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sterlingcomics

sterlingcomics

Posted
Posted
...Pressing is a part of the restoration process...

...Check out the conservation service for more details on that...

 

Hey Matt! Confused by that post....isn't it one OR the other? confused.gif I'm not joining the bashmobile, just trying to gain lucidity.

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