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CGC Census - Toughest 9.8s for Copper Age

Started by valiantman,

87 posts in this topic

valiantman

valiantman

Posted
  • Author
Posted
The interesting numbers are comics that have less than 50 submissions. We should looking and crunching the numbers for those copper age books.

 

Example: Cerebus, Tick, Gobbleygook, Grendel, Flaming Carrot, etc....

 

How would you (mathematically) separate "comics that have less than 50 submissions" that DO matter,

such as Cerebus, Tick, etc., from "comics that have less than 50 submissions" that DON'T matter,

such as Rainbow Brite or Alf?

 

We'd need a complete list of copper keys before we could focus on low-submitted keys.

Just looking at low submissions would focus on books that primarily aren't popular.

 

Though I didn't explain it very well in my first post, the reason I selected 9.2 or lower

is that the book would need to be IMPORTANT enough to submit in those grades.

There are copper books that are important enough to submit at almost any grade.

Additionally, popular books are submitted often enough that grades like 9.2 or lower

eventually reach a larger number.

 

As a result, I was hoping to get a subset of books that were either important or popular, or both.

It's hard to find important books among low submissions because they

would blend in with the most unimportant books (which also have low submissions).

 

There is definitely a "problem" with judging these results whenever pre-screening has affected

a large portion of submissions. Unfortunately, there's no census record of failed pre-screens,

so if someone pre-screened 100 copies for 9.8, and got 2, we'd have a record of the two,

but no record of the 98 failures.

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jediknight

jediknight

Posted
Posted
Anyone can make up numbers to prove a point. confused-smiley-013.gif

 

Show me the REAL numbers that prove the point.

 

Here's the list you're asking for: flowerred.gif

 

Ratio of CGC Universal 9.2to9.6 versus 9.8 or higher

(Comics 1980-1992, minimum of 50 Universal CGC submissions)

 

 

Star Wars 107 - 97:0 (none in 9.8 or higher)

Thats wrong Valiantman I just saw one on ebay not to long ago.One does exist...

 

gossip.gif

 

You quoted something from JUNE.

 

 

 

Ha, ha, ha, ha, you lopsided that turkey real good. 27_laughing.gif

 

stooges.gif

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valiantman

valiantman

Posted
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Valiantman,

 

Do you have an updated list??

 

 

Toughest in 9.8+ compared to 9.2+ submissions (February 16, 2007 CGC Census)

(Minimum of 50 Universal Submissions, Comics Dated 1980 to 1992)

 

Daredevil 166 - (0.00%) 0 out of 59 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Star Wars 107 - (0.88%) 1 out of 114 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 170 - (1.37%) 1 out of 73 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 169 - (1.43%) 1 out of 70 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 168 - (1.75%) 10 out of 572 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

G.I. Joe, A Real American Hero 21 - (1.82%) 2 out of 110 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Batman 428 - (2.03%) 3 out of 148 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

X-Men 139 - (2.85%) 12 out of 421 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Spider-Man 1 Platinum Edition - (3.04%) 7 out of 230 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

X-Men 131 - (3.20%) 7 out of 219 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 301 - (3.48%) 7 out of 201 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

X-Men 132 - (3.73%) 11 out of 295 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Primer 2 - (3.88%) 5 out of 129 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 216 - (4.00%) 2 out of 50 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 202 - (4.12%) 4 out of 97 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

X-Men 129 - (4.42%) 19 out of 430 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 163 - (4.48%) 3 out of 67 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Spider-Man 1 Poly-Bagged Silver Edition - (4.82%) 4 out of 83 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Harbinger 1 - (5.07%) 11 out of 217 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Captain America 241 - (5.17%) 3 out of 58 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

X-Men 130 - (5.26%) 19 out of 361 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

X-Men 140 - (5.41%) 34 out of 629 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

X-Men 136 - (5.51%) 20 out of 363 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Uncanny X-Men 212 - (5.56%) 14 out of 252 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 300 - (5.94%) 130 out of 2187 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 238 - (6.12%) 47 out of 768 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 208 - (6.15%) 4 out of 65 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Justice League 3 Logo Variant - (6.41%) 5 out of 78 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Batman 426 - (6.60%) 7 out of 106 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Solar, Man of the Atom 10 - (6.83%) 11 out of 161 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Power Man and Iron Fist 66 - (7.14%) 5 out of 70 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Batman 427 - (7.27%) 4 out of 55 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Captain America Annual 8 - (7.55%) 12 out of 159 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Watchmen 1 - (7.75%) 10 out of 129 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

X-Men 133 - (7.81%) 26 out of 333 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Avengers 195 - (7.81%) 5 out of 64 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

X-Men 134 - (7.85%) 26 out of 331 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

X-Men Annual 4 - (8.00%) 4 out of 50 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 176 - (8.06%) 5 out of 62 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Uncanny X-Men 142 - (8.08%) 60 out of 743 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 252 - (8.21%) 118 out of 1437 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 249 - (8.64%) 7 out of 81 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

X-Men 141 - (8.68%) 62 out of 714 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Miracleman 15 - (8.74%) 16 out of 183 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Hellblazer 1 - (8.75%) 7 out of 80 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Uncanny X-Men 164 - (9.21%) 7 out of 76 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 201 - (9.47%) 9 out of 95 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Sandman 1 - (9.58%) 25 out of 261 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 174 - (9.68%) 15 out of 155 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 261 - (9.89%) 9 out of 91 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 204 - (10.00%) 9 out of 90 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 171 - (10.00%) 5 out of 50 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Uncanny X-Men 268 - (10.20%) 26 out of 255 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Avengers Annual 10 - (10.29%) 70 out of 680 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 167 - (10.29%) 7 out of 68 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 266 - (10.34%) 6 out of 58 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Sandman 8 - (10.53%) 8 out of 76 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 228 - (10.53%) 6 out of 57 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 298 - (10.84%) 106 out of 978 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 211 - (10.94%) 7 out of 64 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

X-Men 135 - (10.96%) 49 out of 447 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 317 - (10.99%) 21 out of 191 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Incredible Hulk 340 - (11.53%) 97 out of 841 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Rai 5 - (11.54%) 6 out of 52 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Uncanny X-Men 143 - (11.57%) 48 out of 415 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Uncanny X-Men 213 - (11.76%) 38 out of 323 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 289 - (11.91%) 28 out of 235 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 184 - (11.95%) 30 out of 251 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Batman 400 - (12.00%) 9 out of 75 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

DC Comics Presents 26 - (12.10%) 19 out of 157 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

X-Men 137 - (12.12%) 109 out of 899 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 4 - (12.50%) 7 out of 56 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 164 - (12.63%) 12 out of 95 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 172 - (12.68%) 9 out of 71 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 226 - (12.73%) 7 out of 55 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Punisher Limited Series 3 - (12.79%) 11 out of 86 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 200 - (12.86%) 99 out of 770 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

New Mutants 87 - (12.94%) 55 out of 425 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 210 - (12.96%) 7 out of 54 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 239 - (13.01%) 57 out of 438 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Miracleman 1 - (13.02%) 28 out of 215 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

New Teen Titans 2 - (13.16%) 35 out of 266 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Special Edition: Spider-Man and the Hulk nn - (13.21%) 7 out of 53 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Saga of the Swamp Thing 20 - (13.21%) 7 out of 53 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Detective Comics 500 - (13.24%) 9 out of 68 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Wolverine Limited Series 2 - (13.27%) 130 out of 980 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

X-Men 138 - (13.37%) 67 out of 501 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 - (13.49%) 17 out of 126 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Rai 4 - (13.64%) 18 out of 132 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Wolverine Limited Series 3 - (14.11%) 127 out of 900 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Saga of the Swamp Thing 37 - (14.29%) 25 out of 175 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 299 - (14.36%) 104 out of 724 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 178 - (14.46%) 12 out of 83 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

New Teen Titans 1 - (14.65%) 29 out of 198 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Uncanny X-Men 201 - (14.69%) 26 out of 177 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Uncanny X-Men 169 - (14.77%) 13 out of 88 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Wolverine Limited Series 4 - (14.79%) 104 out of 703 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 308 - (14.94%) 13 out of 87 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 175 - (15.00%) 27 out of 180 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 310 - (15.12%) 13 out of 86 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

G.I. Joe, A Real American Hero 2 - (15.25%) 9 out of 59 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Web of Spider-Man 1 - (15.35%) 190 out of 1238 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 302 - (15.45%) 17 out of 110 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Transformers 1 - (15.50%) 40 out of 258 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Punisher Limited Series 1 - (15.64%) 38 out of 243 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 206 - (15.73%) 14 out of 89 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Batman 429 - (15.79%) 15 out of 95 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 205 - (15.79%) 15 out of 95 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 213 - (15.87%) 10 out of 63 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Uncanny X-Men 210 - (16.03%) 21 out of 131 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Magnus Robot Fighter 0 Mail-order Edition - (16.10%) 19 out of 118 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

X-Factor 24 - (16.35%) 17 out of 104 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Action Comics 662 - (16.50%) 17 out of 103 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 179 - (16.54%) 21 out of 127 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Transformers 3 - (16.67%) 9 out of 54 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Uncanny X-Men 266 - (16.83%) 243 out of 1444 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Uncanny X-Men 248 - (16.87%) 70 out of 415 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Spider-Man 1 UPC Gold Edition - (16.87%) 14 out of 83 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 177 - (16.87%) 14 out of 83 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 207 - (17.05%) 15 out of 88 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Batman: The Dark Knight Returns 4 - (17.18%) 50 out of 291 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Uncanny X-Men 148 - (17.33%) 39 out of 225 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 260 - (17.35%) 17 out of 98 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

X-Factor 6 - (17.50%) 14 out of 80 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Batman 404 - (17.66%) 62 out of 351 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 294 - (17.74%) 11 out of 62 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 180 - (17.80%) 47 out of 264 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Wolverine Limited Series 1 - (17.86%) 506 out of 2833 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Uncanny X-Men 174 - (18.00%) 9 out of 50 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 203 - (18.07%) 15 out of 83 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Punisher Limited Series 2 - (18.18%) 20 out of 110 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 173 - (18.31%) 13 out of 71 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Wolverine 4 - (18.49%) 27 out of 146 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Star Wars 39 - (18.52%) 10 out of 54 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 182 - (18.58%) 60 out of 323 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Uncanny X-Men 171 - (18.60%) 40 out of 215 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Spider-Man vs. Wolverine 1 - (18.69%) 40 out of 214 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 233 - (18.75%) 12 out of 64 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Man of Steel 1 Special Collector's Edition - (18.75%) 12 out of 64 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 209 - (18.81%) 19 out of 101 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 188 - (18.86%) 33 out of 175 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 285 - (18.89%) 17 out of 90 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 248 - (18.97%) 11 out of 58 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Uncanny X-Men 200 - (19.17%) 23 out of 120 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Brave and the Bold 200 - (19.23%) 10 out of 52 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 309 - (19.27%) 21 out of 109 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Moon Knight 1 - (19.29%) 27 out of 140 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man Annual 15 - (19.35%) 18 out of 93 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Daredevil 181 - (19.47%) 264 out of 1356 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Amazing Spider-Man 324 - (19.83%) 24 out of 121 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 3 - (20.00%) 14 out of 70 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

Crisis on Infinite Earths 3 - (20.00%) 13 out of 65 books CGC 9.2+ are CGC 9.8+

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akaSteveRogers

akaSteveRogers

Posted
Posted

nice list and we all appreciate the work put into. The only issue (issue might be a strong word) I have with the ratios is it isn't an "across-the-board" formula that can be used to find out whether a book is tough to get in 9.8.

 

I'm thinking along the lines of JC mentioned prior...

 

Can you really say an ASM #252 or 300 is tougher to get in a 9.8 than ,say...a Captain America #290.

 

The ratio for a CA #290 is 1:1... which sounds like anyone would have a great chance of getting this book in 9.8 as a 9.2-9.6. And if you ask any Cap collector, they would know thats if waaay off base.

 

There are only (2) 9.8s but 1 in 9.2 and 1 in 9.6 in believe. And, personally, from what I have seen... most raw "NM" copies are 9.0-9.2 range and even a 9.4 would be practically worthless and not worthy of submission.

 

 

 

 

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rza808

rza808

Posted
Posted
nice list and we all appreciate the work put into. The only issue (issue might be a strong word) I have with the ratios is it isn't an "across-the-board" formula that can be used to find out whether a book is tough to get in 9.8.

 

I'm thinking along the lines of JC mentioned prior...

 

Can you really say an ASM #252 or 300 is tougher to get in a 9.8 than ,say...a Captain America #290.

 

The ratio for a CA #290 is 1:1... which sounds like anyone would have a great chance of getting this book in 9.8 as a 9.2-9.6. And if you ask any Cap collector, they would know thats if waaay off base.

 

There are only (2) 9.8s but 1 in 9.2 and 1 in 9.6 in believe. And, personally, from what I have seen... most raw "NM" copies are 9.0-9.2 range and even a 9.4 would be practically worthless and not worthy of submission.

The hardest to get in 9.8 with ultra high demand list :shrug: need some kind of formula that factors in price and amount of sales too hm
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Topnotchman

Topnotchman

Posted
Posted

Turtles #1 would be the #1 with value and scarcity. Even a list of books that sell for over $100.00 in 9.8 with say at least 5 or more copies on census, or over $200.00 if one book or greater on census. We would be getting into a list of comics that include ASM 220 and 230, UXM 212 as those books have tough covers and are a pure challange to find in grade. Some of those Miller Daredevils in the 160's are just about impossible also.

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MatMarvelV1

MatMarvelV1

Posted
Posted

You're right about those DD's (miller run) I compiled a list of the census to help me in selecting HG CGC copies, the toughest are as follows:

 

#161 - 4

#162 - 7

#163 - 3

#165 - 1 :o

#166 - 1 :o

#167 - 8

#169 - 5

#170 - 5

#171 - 7

#176 - 9

 

tough set to complete in 9.8

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Topnotchman

Topnotchman

Posted
Posted

Does anybody remember when the Miller Daredevils caught fire? Which month was the first of the bulk, was it in the late 170's? Its clear that the 160's were not being over ordered as the comics all seemed to be read and collected, instead of hoarded and packed away as collectables. The books in the 180's are as common as dirt.

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MatMarvelV1

MatMarvelV1

Posted
Posted

I think with the "death" of Elektra issue #181 everybody caught on, because as you say the issues #181 - #191 are so common in 9.8 - 1335 9.8's, compared to the books I've listed earlier is staggering, with the next rarest in 9.8 (181 - 191) being issue #191 - 39 in 9.8

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He11blazer

He11blazer

Posted
Posted

Interesting list! On a personal note, may I add, Hellblazer #27.

 

No HB #27s in 9.8 yet. If anybody gets one, here's a standing offer of $100 :)

 

It's all because of that darn Clive Barker's Nightbreed insert...

 

hellblazer27insert.jpg

 

 

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