Obadiah Oldbuck vs. Superman

[BLBcomics-migration]

It is not about the money which drives me in this hobby, though i do make my living buying and selling old comic books...

 

 

 

[buttock]

[buttock]

Most archeology no one gives a damn about. Most people will not bother to even look at the published research. I have encountered many many people who get the Overstreet PG who have never even noticed ANYTHING in the fornt of the book - all they do is look up prices, as that is what runs their wagon in this hobby.

 

That's because most people doing it are pushing an agenda....

[BLBcomics-migration]

Most archeology no one gives a damn about. Most people will not bother to even look at the published research. I have encountered many many people who get the Overstreet PG who have never even noticed ANYTHING in the fornt of the book - all they do is look up prices, as that is what runs their wagon in this hobby.

 

That's because most people doing it are pushing an agenda....

 

I'm sorry, but to what are you referring to?

Your post makes no sense to me

[BLBcomics-migration]

Oh, upon reflection, i think this uneducated fool was referring to the research i compile for the Overstreet Price Guide - now what agenda are you saying i be da pusha man on?

[ShoNuff-migration]

Oh, upon reflection, i think this uneducated fool was referring to the research i compile for the Overstreet Price Guide - now what agenda are you saying i be da pusha man on?

Again, I would like to publicly apologize to everyone for Robert Beerbohm's snotty arrogance and childish name calling in this thread. Apparently, he's the kind of know-it-all who is physically incapable of ever admitting he's wrong on any subject, and instead prefers to counter with verbal attacks when challenged in any way. Again...my sincerest apologies to all regarding his behavior.

[buttock]

Oh, upon reflection, i think this uneducated fool was referring to the research i compile for the Overstreet Price Guide - now what agenda are you saying i be da pusha man on?

 

Hi Bob, have you moved out of your mother's home yet?

[ciorac]

Bob,

 

You've made your points, and your case.

You've presented your arguments well.

But you have to come to realize that 99% of the time on these boards you won't change people's minds. No matter how good the arguments. Besides, how can you change people's minds unless they actually have experience in the selected fields that are up for debate.

I think it is pretty clear that those debating in favor of Action 1 deal in GA & SA, but I would bet that they have very little experience with Platinum, and Victorian.

Obviously Showcase and yourself have vast experience in the Plat and before and as you know so do I, and so we all have similiar views.

 

I appreciate the time you've taken to post your thoughts and views on here. I'm also pretty sure that the others whom have disagreed with you do as well.

 

That being said it was an enjoyable debate.

 

Michael Golden rules!

 

The debate points i encounter here seem to lean towards "most important" being how much something is worth as well as world wide icon recognition. Those were the points I came away with reading Bill and other's posts.

 

 

 

best

 

Robert Beerbohm

 

Bob, I never ONCE mentioned Action #1's value in any of my posts, not one single time as it relates to being more important than any other book. It could be worth a dime for all that it matters.

 

First, does not mean most important. Period. Icon status aside, and semantics aside, Action #1 not only started the superhero genre, it breathed life into an entire industry.

 

Let's just say that it never happened. Superheroes never came to pass. Jerry and Joe were turned away one last time, and decided to sell insurance instead.

 

Bob Kane stayed on Peter Pup, Detective Comics ran out of gangster stories to tell, and the adventure stories in Adventure comics started to get stale.

 

What then?

 

Would the Disney books have carried us to 2006? Would the funny animal or teen humor have done it?

 

Of course not. Superheroes, the modern mythology, did it as only they could do. So to say that any other book or genre is more important to the industry as a WHOLE is ludicrous.

 

There would be no industry called comic books today were it not for the superheroes. At least not one important enough to debate about.

 

So Obadiah may well be the first comic book, and if it is...then it is truly an important piece of Americana. And as such worthy of respect and admiration.

 

But, my LAST comments on this subject are that for the above reasons and ALL the others I have attempted to get you to understand, Action #1 clearly is more important than any other comic book including Obadiah. Clearly. Not open to interpretation, not subject to intelligent logical debate, it simply IS.

 

I can't help but believe you know this too, and for the life of me I can't understand what you are trying to accomplish by saying it isn't. It borders on ridiculous. I know you well enough to know you know better. No amount of research will reveal anything different than the simple facts above.

[goldust40]

Bob,

 

You've made your points, and your case.

You've presented your arguments well.

But you have to come to realize that 99% of the time on these boards you won't change people's minds. No matter how good the arguments. Besides, how can you change people's minds unless they actually have experience in the selected fields that are up for debate.

I think it is pretty clear that those debating in favor of Action 1 deal in GA & SA, but I would bet that they have very little experience with Platinum, and Victorian.

Obviously Showcase and yourself have vast experience in the Plat and before and as you know so do I, and so we all have similiar views.

 

I appreciate the time you've taken to post your thoughts and views on here. I'm also pretty sure that the others whom have disagreed with you do as well.

 

That being said it was an enjoyable debate.

 

Michael Golden rules!

 

The debate points i encounter here seem to lean towards "most important" being how much something is worth as well as world wide icon recognition. Those were the points I came away with reading Bill and other's posts.

 

 

 

best

 

Robert Beerbohm

 

Bob, I never ONCE mentioned Action #1's value in any of my posts, not one single time as it relates to being more important than any other book. It could be worth a dime for all that it matters.

 

First, does not mean most important. Period. Icon status aside, and semantics aside, Action #1 not only started the superhero genre, it breathed life into an entire industry.

 

Let's just say that it never happened. Superheroes never came to pass. Jerry and Joe were turned away one last time, and decided to sell insurance instead.

 

Bob Kane stayed on Peter Pup, Detective Comics ran out of gangster stories to tell, and the adventure stories in Adventure comics started to get stale.

 

What then?

 

Would the Disney books have carried us to 2006? Would the funny animal or teen humor have done it?

 

Of course not. Superheroes, the modern mythology, did it as only they could do. So to say that any other book or genre is more important to the industry as a WHOLE is ludicrous.

 

There would be no industry called comic books today were it not for the superheroes. At least not one important enough to debate about.

 

So Obadiah may well be the first comic book, and if it is...then it is truly an important piece of Americana. And as such worthy of respect and admiration.

 

But, my LAST comments on this subject are that for the above reasons and ALL the others I have attempted to get you to understand, Action #1 clearly is more important than any other comic book including Obadiah. Clearly. Not open to interpretation, not subject to intelligent logical debate, it simply IS.

 

I can't help but believe you know this too, and for the life of me I can't understand what you are trying to accomplish by saying it isn't. It borders on ridiculous. I know you well enough to know you know better. No amount of research will reveal anything different than the simple facts above.

 

I dunno, I hear there are plans for Bryan Singer to do an Obadiah Oldbuck movie next year.

[showcase4]

 

There would be no industry called comic books today were it not for the superheroes. At least not one important enough to debate about.

 

So Obadiah may well be the first comic book, and if it is...then it is truly an important piece of Americana. And as such worthy of respect and admiration.

 

But, my LAST comments on this subject are that for the above reasons and ALL the others I have attempted to get you to understand, Action #1 clearly is more important than any other comic book including Obadiah. Clearly. Not open to interpretation, not subject to intelligent logical debate, it simply IS.

 

To the suprise possibly of many of you, I would have to say this is undeniably the case. I obviously love and am thrilled to own my copies of Obadiah Oldbuck. The reason that Oldbuck is such a mega-key in the Victorian Age market is because it is crowned as the 1st known American comic book. Taking that to the next level, the reason the 1st comic book is a big deal, is because comic books are a big deal. Action 1 is the single force that triggered the popularity explosion that has lasted for 68 years now, and growing every year...therefore, it is the key book that popularized the entire comic book world. Obadiah was the spark, and Action 1 was the fuel that have kept the fires burning all these years.

[BLBcomics-migration]

It is a simple fact that Walt Disney's Comics and Stories circulation at its peak was in excess of 4 million copies per issue.

 

What spandex title equaled those numbers?

 

Looney Tunes Merry Melodies consistently broke 3 million per issue

 

Irwin Donenfeld told me during the course of 18 taped interview hours that Dell all by itself was over half of the entire comic book industry back in the hey-day of the circulation wars.

 

Yes, Superman breathed life into this aspect of comics history, which makes it the 2nd Grail of comic books after Obadiah Oldbuck began the comics industry in America. The comic book industry was vastly larger outside the super hero subset than you maybe realize.

 

Comic strip reading was way more popular OUTSIDE of the nascent comicbook industry of the late 1930s. Your perspective is skewed from the outset.

 

That is a simple fact.

 

It is a fact that more people read the newspaper comic strips than comicbooks.

 

Superman in newspaper comic strips was read by 20 million people per day

 

One twentieth of those bought Superman comic books.

 

One needs to look at the ENTIRE comics industry in America before one can stipulate to any sub-section being "most important" - and that is not subject to "interpretation". Unless one looks at ALL of comics history in America, one will not be painting with a broad enough brush.

 

My agenda is teaching the rest of you proper comics history - obviously, i have failed in that regard, in respect to those of you who cling to the super hero mythos.

[BLBcomics-migration]

my reply to shonuff/buttock is "yawn"

[infinite_comics-migration]

Oh, upon reflection, i think this uneducated fool was referring to the research i compile for the Overstreet Price Guide - now what agenda are you saying i be da pusha man on?

Again, I would like to publicly apologize to everyone for Robert Beerbohm's snotty arrogance and childish name calling in this thread. Apparently, he's the kind of know-it-all who is physically incapable of ever admitting he's wrong on any subject, and instead prefers to counter with verbal attacks when challenged in any way. Again...my sincerest apologies to all regarding his behavior.

 

I had never read any posts by BLB on any chatboards before this thread, so this was first my exposure.

 

Now I know the truth, as posted above.

 

Kinda like when Brulato showed up here for the first time...

[infinite_comics-migration]

The reason that Oldbuck is such a mega-key in the Victorian Age market is because it is crowned as the 1st known American comic book.

 

When did this happen? Oh, right - it hasn't

[showcase4]

One needs to look at the ENTIRE comics industry in America before one can stipulate to any sub-section being "most important" - and that is not subject to "interpretation". Unless one looks at ALL of comics history in America, one will not be painting with a broad enough brush.

 

My agenda is teaching the rest of you proper comics history - obviously, i have failed in that regard, in respect to those of you who cling to the super hero mythos.

 

Hey Bob,

is this directed towards my comments, or a general summary for all? You have the top key books---some divided by ages, and some by themes. A few examples:

 

Victorian Age - Obadiah Oldbuck

Platinum Age - The Yellow Kid in McFadden's Flats

Golden Age - Action 1

Silver Age - AF15

top sci-fi - Journey into Mystery #1

top crime: Crime Does not Pay 22

top western: Gene Autry #1 ? ( I don't do Westerns )

 

so you have all the big, important, landmark key books all spread out on a table....164 years worth of the best of the best...all the keys are there.

99.9% of collectors and dealers reading this would point to the Action 1 as the most important book on the table. Importance may be defined different ways by different people,..could be historical signifigance, cultural impact, hobby dominance, monetary value, social value....etc etc. There are probably 50 different meanings of "important"....yet 99.9% will pick the Action 1 as what best defines the most important comic book. NO ONE LOVES OBADIAH OLDBUCK AND CHERISHES IT MORE THAN ME, but I'm not living my life with blinders on....if you look at the ENTIRE comic book marketplace as a whole, thru all the ages, and all the #1's, and all the changes, and all the intros, and all the origins .....Action 1 is the king of comics. That doesn't mean that Oldbuck is not a great, rare, wonderful, historic and monumental industry life giving book...I believe it is all those things....but that does not make it the king.

 

Now my question for you is---what will it take to for more widespread collector/dealer acceptance of Platinum and Victorian Age books ? Obviously these older markets will never be as dominate as mainstream GA/SA, but it seems like there is tremendous room for growth...both in a larger collector base and especially in value gains due to the extreme rarity of the keys.

How do the older markets take off in greater popularity?

[BLBcomics-migration]

lame deflection of the query, uneducated fool

 

what agenda were you psycho-babbling about?

[BLBcomics-migration]

Hi Steve

 

Nope, my post was more so directed at Bill P, i used the quick reply, which i guess leads one to seem like replying to whomever had the last previous post.

 

I would say the list you provided, gleaned from the beginning stuff in Overstreet, is predicated on value, not historical significance, the latter of which is my only criteria as i developed the history articles which front the Vict, Plat and "Modern" comic book price indexes.

 

Some fool keeps bandying about the term "arrogant" which is laughable at best. I am merely supremely confidant in the research i have conducted which has taken me far beyond the scope of what most have delved into re the archeology of all things comics. Anyone proves me wrong, and i will be the first to change the program.

 

There is decades of myth yet to undo which is still taken as gospel

 

I remember the days back in the 1980s when Marvel ruled supreme - and Marvel (Mystery) Comics #1 was considered the most valuable of all comic books - and the debates raged over whether the Oct or Nov 1939 issue was scarcer than the other.

 

Times changed, DC with Action #1 was of late anointed supreme comic book, the value keeps climbing, and lately, the mythos has moved the time line to have Action #1 as the beginning of the "Golden" Age of comicbooks.

 

Not that long ago, it just wasn't so, Joe.

 

Famous Funnies #1 news stand edition was considered the beginning of the "Golden" Age

 

For me, the "Golden" Age of comics begins with the likes of Little Nemo, Krazy Kat, and a host of other classic strips - as i do not limit myself to the narrow delivery venue of comics magazines. One could toss in Yellow Kid, Katzenjammer Kids, Buster Brown, Mutt & Jeff, Bringing Up Father, Gumps, and 100s of other comic strips.

 

The "Golden" Age of heroes in comics begins with Buck Rogers, Tarzan, Popeye, Flash Gordon, Phantom, Prince valiant - all before Superman

 

And comics ruled supreme with those heroes in the eyes and soul of America before Superman came along on the set - read and enjoyed by millions upon millions more Americans than any single comicbook(magazine) ever published.

 

I have been dealing with the re-education of American comicbook collectors for a decade now. What has transpired on this CGC thread is nothing new. There are always a few who will not budge no matter what is shown to them.

[Timulty]

It is a simple fact that Walt Disney's Comics and Stories circulation at its peak was in excess of 4 million copies per issue.

 

What spandex title equaled those numbers?

.

 

Does anybody have the Captain Marvel Adventures and Whiz Comics numbers? Just curious.

[BLBcomics-migration]

My understanding of the numbers was when capt Marvel was being printed every 3 weeks for a while there, its circ hit 1.5 million, more than Superman or Action - back in the day, CM was more "popular" than Supes

 

twas the TV show and licensed "stuff" which drove Superman's popularity thru the 50s

 

Robert Beerbohm

[mica]

The fact that this thread in 3 short months shot up to 12,000 views is proof enough that interest does exist, that there is a thirst to understand what these sections of the Overstreet I compile are all about.

Robert Beerbohm

Actually this thread was starting to die awhile back. Check the last post on July 16. Showcase kept yakking in it, and kept it alive. (yakking is a technical term ) Take away 2 posters and this thread would get buried in half a day.

 

Not that I take great pleasure in this, so don't take it wrong,

 

Just stating that if a certain two man team were to leave this thread it would fade rapidly.

Many of the 12,000 views can be traced back to certain sources.

 

Touting the longevity of something you are keeping alive is not exactly an accomplishment.

 

Regards, Mica