Anyone know eBayer "jerrybyrnes"? Added details of emails...

[CKB]

My $0.02:

 

This is pure seller non-performance. The contract goes both ways. If the buyer pays, the seller is obligated to send you the item.

 

The statement the buyer made in the paypal note is not relevant. It is the restatement of an obvious fact that any seller should have to adhere to, unless the listing terms explictly state that returns are forbidden. The statement is not controversial or a threat or anything of the kind!

 

I cannot see how anyone can back the seller on non-performance unless returns are forbidden. If he comes back and says, "I am not going to accept a return on this item, here is your money back" then we have something relevant and acceptable. "You know, I would take a return on this but your attitude sucks so go [embarrassing lack of self control] off" is neither helpful nor acceptable.

 

I would hold the seller to the contract, and file a seller non-performance complaint if the book is not sent. I certainly don't think negative feedback is warrented for anything that has gone on here on either side. No one is out any money, items never changed hands - leave it to the NPS strike and do a neutral or leave the feedback to timeout with no entry.

[FFB]

Quite frankly, I think this entire thread is much ado about nothing. OK, maybe Mike shouldn't have added that line with his payment about returning the comic if not as described. Maybe he should have taken a completely different tack with the seller when the seller responded to him. But big deal. I think the seller is guilty of overreacting as well to something that was a pretty mild comment. And at the end of the day, Mike wound up not getting some common bronze age comic book.

 

And now people are going to put him on their blocked bidder lists because he mentioned this on the forum? Ridiculous.

 

Somewhere it must be raining toads, cause I agree here.

 

If I was the seller, my response would have went about like this:

 

"Hi Mike,

 

Sure no problem, I think you will be very pleased with this book as it's very nice.

 

Thanks again and I look forward to future transactions."

 

First thing I've learned when selling anything is to describe the item accurately and disclose any defects (when you think you are selling a collectible or not). If you are confident in your product and it's description, you can feel a lot less threatened by a message like Mike's. I've sold lots of toys on eBay and have ran into some real picky condition freaks and have had some intersting requests.

 

One guy after winning a monopoly game requested it be double boxed and packed securely because he was a collector. Well, I always wrap my items in bubble wrap and pack securely, but I don't normally double box my games, but rather than worry and get defensive about a picky collector, I packed it securely, double boxed with extra packing inbetween the boxes and sent him his item. I got a great feedback when he recieved it and a potential repeat customer.

 

My point is, that while Mike's statement may have been a bit blunt, it should not have been a deal killer. Especially with the follow up emails stating an interest in still recieving the book.

 

The seller also has no legs to leave a strike to the buyer as it was his choice to refund the Paypal payment. In fact, you may be able to give him a seller's strike for not completing the transaction. If he starts that process of filing a non-paying bidder report on you, make sure you respond appropriately.

 

It's really too bad it has come to this over such a small $$ item. It would have seemed the after auction communication could have rectified the situation, Hopefully, you guys can work out an amicable end to this and bury the hatchet. Good luck.

 

[mlovest]

OK, after my last message, he said I seemed reasonable and he would send the comic. I have responded let's go, and I sent him the money.

 

Thanks again for the good feedback. I need to be more careful in the future, so this doesn't happen again. It's what I get for being and ISTJ--too quick with decisions sometimes...

 

V/R,

Mike

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

Be sure to post a scan when you get it.

[wrcomics]

That's good to hear Mike. Glad to see that you and the seller worked things through instead of just dropping the entire transaction. I think this story is a classic example of how imperfect email is as a medium of communication and when we use it, we have to be more careful and thoughtful in how and what we want to say.

[jediknight]

My $0.02:

 

This is pure seller non-performance. The contract goes both ways. If the buyer pays, the seller is obligated to send you the item.

 

This is well put and I agree with it even though the threatening email probably made Jerry Byrnes lay an egg. The auction did end and the seller must perform. Not only did Byrnes throw a tantrum (will sumbody git that guy a milky bottle will ya!!) but he used his monstrous labido to overpower the young bidder. He dominated him into not leaving red feedback. That's just frikkin' kinky.

[musicmeta]

OK, after my last message, he said I seemed reasonable and he would send the comic. I have responded let's go, and I sent him the money.

 

Thanks again for the good feedback. I need to be more careful in the future, so this doesn't happen again. It's what I get for being and ISTJ--too quick with decisions sometimes...

 

V/R,

Mike

 

 

Glad you and the Seller worked it out. I've bought a couple of books from Jerrybyrnes and I was happy when I received them.

[ShoNuff-migration]

OK, after my last message, he said I seemed reasonable and he would send the comic. I have responded let's go, and I sent him the money.

After you receive the book, do a Paypal chargeback and then leave him a negative.

[mlovest]

That's good to hear Mike. Glad to see that you and the seller worked things through instead of just dropping the entire transaction. I think this story is a classic example of how imperfect email is as a medium of communication and when we use it, we have to be more careful and thoughtful in how and what we want to say.

 

You are 100% correct on that! We all have to remember we're dealing with people, and we're all different. I definitely need to remember to consider what message I'm getting across. Have a great 4th of Jul!

 

V/R,

Mike

[BassGMan]

I'm confused, why am I at fault here? I'm interested as I don't think I did anything other than be a bit blunt.

 

He had no return policy listed, I paid him right away, and I simply stated I would return the comic if not as described? How am I at fault? I've got perfect feedback on eBay, and I've purchased from a number of board members with never a problem. Is it wrong to state the obvious about a return? How many of you have been burned by overgraded raw books?

 

V/R,

Mike

 

I think the thing here is that you have to take into consideration the past experiences of the seller. We sellers have definitely had problem buyers that were very hard to please. I've also received statements from buyers along with payment basically stating that they expect exactly what was stated, more or less. Of course that is what they receive from me, but then again, I don't know the history of that buyer and there certainly are pickier graders than me. Yeah, Ebay dealers/sellers are picked on all the time. But there are a heck of alot of buyers out there that are equally slimy/scammers that have found ways to rip off sellers. I've encountered a few. Anyway, maybe this guy has dealt with alot of really picky buyers and has therefore decided to cut out some of the risk and cancel some winning auctions. Yeah, I wouldn't like this if I was the winning bidder, but you just gotta understand the other guy's point of view. If they have a legitimate concern, like this guy did, then I'd go on my merry way and forget about it.

[jediknight]

I have a great joke to play on jerrybyrnes. Somebody should email him on one of his auctions with this statement: I like this comic but if it's not as stated I'll be extremely peed off and will slam your with red feedback and demand full payback or I'll chargeback your real good.

[Wrightson fan]

I had a run-in with Mr. Byrnes about a year ago over a couple of books. I paid him through Paypal and through some type of glitch, he ended up being paid twice for the books. I contacted Paypal and they said the easiest way to remedy the situation was for the seller to simply refund the second payment. I contacted him about this and he absolutely refused to do so. He kept "screaming" about chargebacks and I was resigned to the fact that he was going to keep my money. I even offered for him to take the Paypal fees out of what he should have refunded me. He still refused. I finally ended up having to bid on more items and use the credit towards those books and pay the additional balance. He was extremely rude and was absolutely unwilling to work with me unless I purchased more books. Let me just say that h*ll will freeze over before he gets another dime from me.

 

 

Scott

[OldGuy]

Man, all that reading and no one died.

[Wrightson fan]

Man, all that reading and no one died.

 

 

This thread did read like a novel huh?

 

Scott

[Pirate]

This guy refuses to honor an auction simply because I stated in my PayPal comment that I would return the raw comic if not as described. Do any of you know him or have dealings with him?

 

I've added the details re the emails. WHat do you folks think? I will let it slide, but I think he's wrong here.

 

V/R,

Mike

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...N%3AIT&rd=1

 

**********************************

My message was very short when I paid (within 24 hours of the win) via PayPal: Note: Please package the comic securely and safely. I will return for refund if not as described.

 

Thanks!

Mike

 

**************

Jerry's first message:

Michael -

 

In 7 years of sales and over 2000 Paypal payments received, you have included the first threat I've ever been delivered with payment. Here's a clue: it is implicit in all auctions that if the item is not as described it will be returned for a refund. I'm not sure why you felt the need to include that as part of your message to me, but I would prefer to refund your payment now rather than involve myself in a problem with a buyer that already seems to have one.

 

I will happily refund your payment right now and file for a credit with ebay rather than proceed with this transaction. There were full-size scans of both covers so I'm not sure how the description would be incorrect but I am very familiar with ebay buyers that cannot be pleased.

 

I will refund your payment after I hear from you and we can end this transaction.

 

Jerry Byrnes

 

***************************

My first response:

Jerry

 

Not sure why you are being so defensive. Note my feedback is perfect thus far, so I obviously have not had major issues in the past. My comments weren't meant as a threat, and I appreciate your concern. I'm sure you also know it's impossible to grade a comic accurately by a scan for a buyer like myself. Please send the comic and let's make this another successful exchange.

 

********************

His response to my response...

Perhaps you didn't read my message - I am not being defensive (but wouldn't you characterize your warning about the condition of the book as pre-emptive defense?). I am simply attempting to avoid a conflict with a buyer I do not know and who seems to think I am interested in comparing grading preferences. And I know exactly what you mean when you say it's impossible to grade a (I assume you meant comic & not comment) accurately by a scan - what I'm concerned about is the quote a buyer like myself unquote comment.

 

If you were concerned enough to explicitly threaten (and yes, it was a threat) to return the book, you either should not have bid at all or contacted me prior to bidding and I would have discouraged your bid. Comments like that are made by extremely picky graders and those types of people tend to waste much time & effort sending the book back and forth. And I'm sorry, but after you've been on ebay for awhile you discover how irrelevant and subjective feedback is - in my opinion ebay feedback is completely worthless and I have voiced this concern to ebay. At this point I would really prefer to end the transaction. First you issue a warning regarding the book and then you criticize my response as being defensive. In my mind, this is already an unsuccessful transaction.

 

**********************

My response to his response to my response (this is fun...):

You offerred an item in an auction and I won. I suppose you don't care about the contract you're breaking.

 

*******************

And his latest response...:

I have had transactions with buyers who bid on & won auctions, and then after winning, demanded a lower S&H charge than what was clearly posted in the auction. When I would not lower the S&H, one buyer not only quote broke the contract unquote but left me negative feedback. Ebay told me that was perfectly acceptable to them since feedback is a quote forum of public opinion unquote. So apparently, ebay isn't all that concerned about breaking the contract or even fairness, in my opinion. All sellers reserve the right to refuse service to buyers whether it be in a retail setting or online. Ebay provides a means to block bidders that sellers don't want to do business with - but of course that didn't help me in this case since I hadn't anticipated a problem with you until I received your payment with the unnecessary threat of return if you weren't satisfied. All you had to do was refrain from including that message and there wouldn't have been any problem. And of course, since this is the USA you are free to sue me if you wish.

 

One last point: I will be filing for a credit on the final auction value fee for the book. I can tell ebay that we have mutually agreed not to complete the transaction and we can both move on and you won't receive an ebay strike. If you disagree, I will just put through the credit unilaterally and your account will receive a strike. I would prefer we both walk away from this transaction without any further acrimony. If I do not hear back from you regarding this I will assume you disagree and I will file for the credit anyway. I have no desire to place a strike on your account and / or leave you negative feedback so I would hope you will agree to disagree and we can part ways somewhat amicably.

 

I would have acted the same way as the seller, no offense but being told what to do irks me especially when it's stated money back if not happy.

[mica]

In spite of itself, this is a good thread. I'm glad to see a humble response got results. Too often being humble is a last resort of which I have neglected as well.

Hopefully this book which may be common in your eyes now will be a great read and look great in a mylar for you.

[jediknight]

Wrightson_fan, Hmmph. I have a nose for smelling a basturd. It's not all the positives that reveal someone, it's what happens when the auction doesn't go according to the -script. What an unusual situation you had and how easily it could've been resolved. How many of you sellers out there would've just refunded the money? Is this even a necessary question to ask? Any straightforward seller woulda' refunded you your second payment. Think it through. He must be a smart guy. If he didn't do this then it was to blackmail your into buying more comics from him. Wrightson_fan, I'm curious to know if you come to this conclusion.

[sterlingcomics]

He kept "screaming" about chargebacks and I was resigned to the fact that he was going to keep my money. I even offered for him to take the Paypal fees out of what he should have refunded me.

 

My understanding is that the Refund feature takes into account the fees, and applies them appropriately as if nothing had happened. This is heresay as I haven't actually used that feature.

 

Ohhh....that smell? Can't you smell that smell? YEAH!

[evilsly]

yes, if you refund a paypal payment to a buyer your paypal fees are also refunded.

 

assuming 1% fees (as if)

 

a buyer pays you $100

you get $99, paypal $1

 

if you have to refund the seller $100, you would only have to pay $99

 

it's pro rated for partial refunds. I've done a few partial refunds where the shipping has been much cheaper than I expected

[october]

I had a run-in with Mr. Byrnes about a year ago over a couple of books. I paid him through Paypal and through some type of glitch, he ended up being paid twice for the books. I contacted Paypal and they said the easiest way to remedy the situation was for the seller to simply refund the second payment. I contacted him about this and he absolutely refused to do so. He kept "screaming" about chargebacks and I was resigned to the fact that he was going to keep my money. I even offered for him to take the Paypal fees out of what he should have refunded me. He still refused. I finally ended up having to bid on more items and use the credit towards those books and pay the additional balance. He was extremely rude and was absolutely unwilling to work with me unless I purchased more books. Let me just say that h*ll will freeze over before he gets another dime from me.

 

 

Scott

 

Damn, what a ! Looks like I won't be buying any of his junk anytime soon.