Stocks vs. Comics

[Crowzilla]

This mainly goes to that part about comics being liquid assets and the section in the new guide comparing their value to stocks.

Has anyone else thought about how ridiculous this chart really is?

 

Does anyone really believe that buying a $100,000 copy of Captain America #1 will net youa 21% annual return, or that it's a safer bet than buying Marvel stock?

Which despite the paltry 4.3% return quoted in the new guide is up 150% this yaer and nearly 400% since trading resumed in late '98.

Forget actually trying to determine what a $100,000 copy of Cap #1 is - we know that recently it *wasn't* the Kansas City or the Mile High copy.

 

And what's a $27,000 copy of Fantastic Four #1?

Is that supposed to be a 9.4 copy? - thats the price quoted.

Come on. A 9.4 copy of FF#1 would sell for around $100,000 - you certainly can't buy one for guide. So comparing illusionary prices for what books guided for 5 years ago (without considering actual market value) to guide now is simply crazy.

 

Yes, maybe AOL is down right now compared to 2000, and an investment in Time/Warner in 1992 might "only" be worth double now, but there were dividends and stock splits to consider - in fact if you timed it correctly, you could still have your original shares of stock as well as have made 4-5x your money.

 

Try selling 1/2 a comic when it goes up in value so you can keep your investment going and raise some cash.

 

Yes the graph is really pretty and sounds nice, but it's just silly.

 

[Aman619]

Bobs just signalling (and promising) that his GUIDE prices will rise that much!! ...regardless of what the comics are selling for in the market.

[dam60]

Yes the graph is really pretty and sounds nice, but it's just silly.

 

So true!!

 

You can trade any stock you want at practically any time the market is open on any of the major exchanges. If you really needed money quick, good luck with your comics.

 

DAM

[thecomicsheet]

Yes the graph is really pretty and sounds nice, but it's just silly.

 

So true!!

 

You can trade any stock you want at practically any time the market is open on any of the major exchanges. If you really needed money quick, good luck with your comics.

 

DAM

 

Comic books are less liquid than some investments, but in regards to being able to move them quickly they beat a lot of other investments (like real estate) hands down.

 

Comic books are certainly not as liquid as stocks. I just traded some stocks this morning - probably took me 90 seconds from beginning to end and I got the market price. But eBay has certainly changed market liquidity for the better. You CAN sell a desirable 'investment' book in 3 to 10 days and have reasonable confidence you will get a decent price for it. There's no guarantee your comics will be worth as much a year or two from now, but just ask me to compare that with some of my telecom and internet stocks.

[dam60]

Comic books are less liquid than some investments, but in regards to being able to move them quickly they beat a lot of other investments (like real estate) hands down.

 

Comic books are certainly not as liquid as stocks. I just traded some stocks this morning - probably took me 90 seconds from beginning to end and I got the market price. But eBay has certainly changed market liquidity for the better. You CAN sell a desirable 'investment' book in 3 to 10 days and have reasonable confidence you will get a decent price for it. There's no guarantee your comics will be worth as much a year or two from now, but just ask me to compare that with some of my telecom and internet stocks.

 

Darryl - I'm with you. Two quick points:

 

1: to take an Detective 27 in true unrestored VF that would push $300K vs a house somewhere that would push $300K I wonder what would be more liquid . . . probably the real estate?

 

2: For just about every other book you can defintiely sell a book within 3 to 10 days but with dead beat bidders, late payers, etc. you might not get paid immediately. Those great buyers that pay ASAP using Paypal rock, but that's not every buyer. The most liquid investment is of course Cash, probably followed by currencies, then by stocks (stocks usually have a 3 day settlement during which the trade clears).

 

DAM

 

PS - I still have some worldcom that I would sell cheap

[Kevin Boyd]

It's a silly analogy. I don't really indulge in the investment aspects of the hobby, although I don't mind if books I own go up in the guide or if someone wants to pay guide or above for books I'm selling.

 

One benefit of comics over real investments that many people don't mention is that if you sell a comic, you are not likely to pay taxes on it.

 

I don't know how it works in the US, but if I sell stocks or other registered investments the government either knows about it through my investments broker and taxes me, or I have to claim any windfall as income in my tax return.

 

I sell a comic from my collection to another collector, it's cash in my pocket. We don't register the transaction with anyone, and the government doesn't care/know I have a lot of money tied up in assets.

 

Kev

[Lofwyr]

1: to take an Detective 27 in true unrestored VF that would push $300K vs a house somewhere that would push $300K I wonder what would be more liquid . . . probably the real estate?

 

I get a good chuckle at those people touting the investment superiority and liquidity of comics over real estate. I'd say one of the _good_ things about real estate is that unless you're in the 1980's buying up blocks of "hot" NY or Florida real estate you don't have to worry about overnight crashes. With real estate you SEE the decline coming MOST of the time. With comics it's a different story, collectors are fickle and most of the "value" is based on dubious speculative trends (such as movies, CGC, new characters, hype, etc..)

 

Btw a 300k house is VERY liquid in southern california. As long as it's priced right around proper market value it will sell fast. Inventory is low in CA and even during the real estate slump (1993-98) years ago people were still buying up property. Real estate is still a far better investment than comics in many states.

 

In addition, there's a lot of things you can do with real estate that you can't really do with comics. Such as leasing, subletting, timeshares, and living in your investment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[spideyfan-migration]

One thing about the stock market is that it is very efficient and harder to find a great deal. For example, a $100 stock will probably be bought and sold around that price.

 

With a comic, you could probably buy a $100 comic for $80, turn around and sell it for $120. Even better, if you can buy a copy at cover and sell it for $100.

 

Can’t do that with stocks.

 

Peter

 

[Aman619]

kev----I believe selling comics at a profit does qualify as capital gains and SHOULD be reported. Thats one reason dealers and sellers often insist on cash transactions. Whether you declare the sales income is up to you (and your accountant), but it SHOULD be reported to avoid possible penalties and interest.

 

On a related note, here in NY art dealers have been busted for sales tax violations. AND, more importantly, the dealers cooperated with the Fesd and went after the collectors too.

 

So-----wIth thehighprofile press Metropolis (just to name one) has been getting recently, who do suppose would be target #1 if they switched their focus to OUR little garden party?

[500Club]

The biggest problem I see with this debate is the generalization involved. There are so many different stocks and so many different comics that for Overstreet to base an argument on one or two examples really provides a skewed picture. Yes, Captain America 1 vs Marvel stock may suggest comics are a solid investment. How about Dazzler 1 at the time of release vs. an equivalent dollar amount of Wal-mart stock? Or Microsoft stock (1984) vs Teen Titans #1 baxter paper? Of course, you could take Ultimate Spidey 1 vs Enron (felt to be a blue chip energy company in 1999).

 

The bottom line is, there are good investments and bad investments to be made on both sides of the equation. To find a formula to compare the two asset classes in full would be damn near impossible.

 

 

[Kevin Boyd]

I've never heard anything about selling unregistered collectibles for cash being declarable as capital gains, unless the person wants to do so for accounting purposes, which I can't see any reason to do unless the person was taking losses and wanted money back... or the person's business was selling comics and had a business # (for irs/canada customs purposes).

 

In order to declare capital gains I gather that I would have to prove that I paid so much for the book and gained x dollars profit when I sold it, which is pretty unlikely since I have no record of what I paid for the item in the first place (sometimes I .

 

But since the transaction is cash, and I am not a "dealer" per se... I have a real job that I pay my taxes on... I don't declare anything for selling the occasional comic.

 

Do you declare profits made at a garage sale as capital gains? When you take your used DVDs and CDs to the record store do you declare profits/loss to the government?

 

Kev

[thecomicsheet]

My comments weren't directed at which investments I think would provide the best return. I was just addressing the narrow question of liquidity.

 

I believe in a diversified portfolio. Like many Americans my single biggest investment is in real estate - my home. Then in stocks via my 401k and IRA accounts. Followed by other things like my collectibles.

 

The real estate market is very location oriented. Some markets its hot and easy to move stuff, other times and places you literally can't give it away. Here in Tulsa we are in a scary situation regarding home prices and sales. Tulsa has lost 16,000 jobs in the last year with the collapse of Worldcom, Williams Communications, and the problems at American Airlines and Williams Companies. That is a HUGE hit on a city the size of Tulsa. In my own neighborhood 'For Sale' signs have popped up all over the place. These houses are moving VERY slowly. Record low interest rates are propping up a few sales, but when that turns around, look out. I've seen a lot of (formerly) prime office space sit vacant for months on end. There are entire large strip malls that are just abandoned. My own company had a million dollar warehouse sale fall through and now there are no takers anywhere to be found for any price.

 

There is an old adage 'Buy when there's blood in the streets'. If I had some excess risk money right now I'd consider some real estate here in Tulsa, things are awful bloody here!

[ArAich]

I find the equation to be actually quite simple...

 

 

 

 

Stocks<<<>>>>Comics ------Buy Both...

[dam60]

Diversification is always the key in investing. Even in stocks it is benenficial to have a blend of large/mid/small cap stocks, value and growth stocks, international and domestic, etc.

 

Comics I like to buy to collect and am "overweight" such characters as batman and superman relative to the books in my collection, but who cares? I would rather be overweight my Bats books

 

DAM

[jeff2004]

I think stocks are better. Of course, get to know your companies as good as your favorite comics. There are a lot of stocks out there that aren't worth 2 cents!

[thecomicsheet]

I think stocks are better. Of course, get to know your companies as good as your favorite comics. There are a lot of stocks out there that aren't worth 2 cents!

 

Want to buy some Williams Communications shares cheap! I'd take a penny a share.

[greggy]

I've never heard anything about selling unregistered collectibles for cash being declarable as capital gains, unless the person wants to do so for accounting purposes, which I can't see any reason to do unless the person was taking losses and wanted money back... or the person's business was selling comics and had a business # (for irs/canada customs purposes).

 

In order to declare capital gains I gather that I would have to prove that I paid so much for the book and gained x dollars profit when I sold it, which is pretty unlikely since I have no record of what I paid for the item in the first place (sometimes I .

 

But since the transaction is cash, and I am not a "dealer" per se... I have a real job that I pay my taxes on... I don't declare anything for selling the occasional comic.

 

Do you declare profits made at a garage sale as capital gains? When you take your used DVDs and CDs to the record store do you declare profits/loss to the government?

 

Kev

 

Comics in Canada is treated as personal use property. Therefore, you only are supposed to to report any sales over $1,000 Canadian as a capital gain. So...it's basically irrelevant unless you sell it for less than a $1,000 unless you do it frequent enough to have the government go after you as a business.

[Warlord]

kevthemev writes:

Do you declare profits made at a garage sale as capital gains? When you take your used DVDs and CDs to the record store do you declare profits/loss to the government?

 

The IRS doesn't given you the benefit of taking losses on personal property - so if you sell personal property via some venue (garage sale, eBay etc) at less than your purchase price, you just pocket the cash. You lost money so the IRS isn't involved. However, they do want to tax you when you make a profit on personal property.

 

I seriously doubt that very much garage sale money ever gets reported to the IRS for those few items that a person may have sold at a "profit" vs their cost.

[greggy]

kevthemev writes:

Do you declare profits made at a garage sale as capital gains? When you take your used DVDs and CDs to the record store do you declare profits/loss to the government?

 

The IRS doesn't given you the benefit of taking losses on personal property - so if you sell personal property via some venue (garage sale, eBay etc) at less than your purchase price, you just pocket the cash. You lost money so the IRS isn't involved. However, they do want to tax you when you make a profit on personal property.

 

I seriously doubt that very much garage sale money ever gets reported to the IRS for those few items that a person may have sold at a "profit" vs their cost.

 

Oh yeah...forgot to mention that the rules are the same in Canuck land. Anyways, most personal property doesn't appreciate so it's not too much of a concern for them.

[delekkerste]

Sue me if you can't take a joke!

 

 

Given that the Nasdaq hit 2000 again today and has almost doubled from its lows of the year, I thought I would gloat bump this thread. Wow, I’m glad I was smart lucky enough not to waste invest my money in overpriced POS high grade comics this year! I feel lucky and fortunate (yeah right, it was a total no-brainer) to have put my money into the stock market instead and that it went up (heck, even Kevin Shuley could have made a fortune in stocks this year). Oh, and what’s that you say? Gold and silver are at multi-year highs too? Golly gee, I sure am lucky to have loaded the boat bought a little and made a small fortune little bit of money there too (maybe you shouldn't have wasted your time tracking prices on GPAnalysis and looked at the immense opportunity in the metals markets instead, bee-yotch.

 

But, all you guys who maxed out your credit cards invested in high grade comics because they went up so much in the past and obviously can never go down, beware of the impending crash I’m sure you will be justly given a serious arse-whupping rewarded soon and will experience marital discord and serious financial difficulties good fortune trying to sell your illiquid funny books when the crash comes seeing your collection appreciate strongly in value when monkeys fly out of my arse next year.

 

Gene