The "Review Committee" discussion

[esquirecomics]

I agree. Especially since CGCs grading isnt an exact science when grading books in from of them, let alone guessing how much it could be improved. As I wrote my post, I saw where I was heading, but deleted it. But what the heck. It occurred to me that I was actually describing something that was seen by CGC as a similar venture. Namely - - PCS. They woudl receive a book, have Friessen look it over and alert the owner as to its potential. Then as a business venture, OFFER their services to RELEASE the "book within.

 

With PCS now a cautionary tale (and a rare "victory" of sanity prevailing here) and probably a sensitive subject for CGC, I hesitated to get into this aspect.. But what the heck, huh?

 

BTW, has anyone actually seen Friessen back at work with CGC? What exactly does he do there? I ask this with all sincerity b/c I simply do not comprehend the structure and I don't know him. Since "returning" to CGC, does he simply check each any every book for restoration all day long?

 

Does he run any particular side business?

 

 

Feeling the need to sew the seeds of a new conspiracy theory?

 

Its been so long since we've had a good one.

[nearmint]

I agree. Especially since CGCs grading isnt an exact science when grading books in from of them, let alone guessing how much it could be improved. As I wrote my post, I saw where I was heading, but deleted it. But what the heck. It occurred to me that I was actually describing something that was seen by CGC as a similar venture. Namely - - PCS. They woudl receive a book, have Friessen look it over and alert the owner as to its potential. Then as a business venture, OFFER their services to RELEASE the "book within.

 

With PCS now a cautionary tale (and a rare "victory" of sanity prevailing here) and probably a sensitive subject for CGC, I hesitated to get into this aspect.. But what the heck, huh?

 

BTW, has anyone actually seen Friessen back at work with CGC? What exactly does he do there? I ask this with all sincerity b/c I simply do not comprehend the structure and I don't know him. Since "returning" to CGC, does he simply check each any every book for restoration all day long?

 

Does he run any particular side business?

 

 

Feeling the need to sew the seeds of a new conspiracy theory?

 

Its been so long since we've had a good one.

 

At least a couple of hours.

 

I heard Chris was caught teaching innocent school children that Pluto is a planet.

[shadroch]

I think it's always a concern when a key book doubles in value. This is where educating the public comes into factor, and a majority of collectors are made aware that the difference between an 8.5 and 9.2, or a 9.4 and 9.8 CGC graded copy could be a minor press job or erased dirt away. Maybe if enough people understand the actual process that CGC uses to grade these books, then we won't get these huge price jumps for an insignificant amount of change.

Personally I do find it somewhat confusing.

 

If grading is about communicating condition to another person, and the current Flat-tastic Age of comic collecting keeps evolving, maybe future labels will add a P (potential) afterthought.

 

Like 8.5P2 for one that could potentially jump 2 levels if reconditioned, or 8.5P0 for a deadnuts VF+ with zero potential/or already reconditioned.

Maybe 4.0P9 for one with tuckable paper near a poped staple.

They do that now,but only those with the secret decoding glasses can read the label.

I can't believe someone can call a GA key jumping from an 8.5 to a 9.2 a minor thing.Yes,it's not a full grade,as if that matters.How about the value of the book increasing several fold? Perhaps that matters,especially to the next buyer.

But then again,tucking numerous wraps under a staple is now acceptable too.

[Ze-man]

I think it's always a concern when a key book doubles in value. This is where educating the public comes into factor, and a majority of collectors are made aware that the difference between an 8.5 and 9.2, or a 9.4 and 9.8 CGC graded copy could be a minor press job or erased dirt away. Maybe if enough people understand the actual process that CGC uses to grade these books, then we won't get these huge price jumps for an insignificant amount of change.

Personally I do find it somewhat confusing.

 

If grading is about communicating condition to another person, and the current Flat-tastic Age of comic collecting keeps evolving, maybe future labels will add a P (potential) afterthought.

 

Like 8.5P2 for one that could potentially jump 2 levels if reconditioned, or 8.5P0 for a deadnuts VF+ with zero potential/or already reconditioned.

Maybe 4.0P9 for one with tuckable paper near a poped staple.

They do that now,but only those with the secret decoding glasses can read the label.

I can't believe someone can call a GA key jumping from an 8.5 to a 9.2 a minor thing.Yes,it's not a full grade,as if that matters.How about the value of the book increasing several fold? Perhaps that matters,especially to the next buyer.

But then again,tucking numerous wraps under a staple is now acceptable too.

 

Gee, I did not know I was a somebody! THNX Shad

 

Shad, you kept asking Steve how a book could jump from 8.5 to 9.2. I simply pointed out that it was not all that much of a difference in grade for a book had been worked on. That IS what you asked about.

 

If you want to throw all the extra baggage of added worth, non disclosure,or CGC's involvement in mishandling a key Pedigree book... well those are apples, we were talking about oranges.

 

Please continue with whatever it was you wanted to discuss regarding the various apples you brought up. Because we have covered oranges already. But this time say what you mean upfront, willya?

 

Ze-

[awe4one]

I can't believe someone can call a GA key jumping from an 8.5 to a 9.2 a minor thing.Yes,it's not a full grade,as if that matters.How about the value of the book increasing several fold? Perhaps that matters,especially to the next buyer.

 

Bill, you're right. It's a huge thing for those paying attention. People on the otherhand have decided to shield themselves from hearing these jumps. Probably in the hope these instances of grade jumps wouldn't resonate hobby-wide and be contained. Mostly that's been achieved...

 

When this becomes well known in the hobby...I'm sure there will be hell to pay. And ignorance of the prior grades won't be an excuse they will except...

 

Jim

[Davenport]

 

I simply pointed out that it was not all that much of a difference in grade for a book had been worked on. That IS what you asked about.

 

If you want to throw all the extra baggage of added worth, non disclosure,or CGC's involvement in mishandling a key Pedigree book... well those are apples, we were talking about oranges.

 

This is exactly why it's so confusing.

 

The leap in grade is either a vast improvement or not much difference, but which is it? And right now profiteers are having it BOTH ways. The perception that it is a major difference is what makes the game so profitable, but when drug out into the light it's suddenly "not much of a leap", just a cover clean and press.

 

You can't blame collector's for not keeping up. How could they? Pro-grading criteria isn't published anywhere, so profiteers get to play directly on decades of "Overstreet" grade perceptions. Heck, even some active-daily diehard collectors are just recently having perception shifts due too more and more flips coming to light. The casual fan-collector keeping up with all this nonsense? No way.

[Ze-man]

I can't believe someone can call a GA key jumping from an 8.5 to a 9.2 a minor thing.Yes,it's not a full grade,as if that matters.How about the value of the book increasing several fold? Perhaps that matters,especially to the next buyer.

 

Bill, you're right. It's a huge thing for those paying attention. People on the otherhand have decided to shield themselves from hearing these jumps. When this becomes well known in the hobby...I'm sure there will be hell to pay And ignorance of the prior grades won't be an excuse they will -except.

 

Jim

 

 

Jim, WTF does this even mean?

 

Exactly who here isn't paying attention? Who here said this isn't a problem? Who exactly is "shielding" themselves from hearing what is going on? Who said this was a minor thing? Tell us, who?

 

For crying out loud Jimbo, could you make a more "loaded with blanks" post? What is it you really expect out of all this anyways? And what do you want to see happen exactly? Aside from the improbable. Please, do tell

 

I personally dont think a book that has been pressed and cleaned receiving a higher grade from CGC is anything earth shattering, and I said as much. I never commented about anything other then how a book can jump up in grade. Shad then took those comments and mixed in his usual bag of puppies,and sunshine to grind his large axe . Big surprise.

 

And I think you meant "accept" not except.

 

 

Ze-

 

 

Edit..

As far as a book becoming 2x more valuable based on a .2 or .4 jump. THAT is the real belly of this beast isn't it? A book jumping up a grade in itself is not all that big a deal, but if a book that sells for X thousands more becasue a few indents and smudges are taken out is why there is so much frustration. Because it IS soo easy to do, and there ARE those taking advantage of people wanting higher and higher quality books People who are willing to pay for them, in some cases even if they knew it was once a 8.5.. but it isnt an 8.5 anymore, it is a 9.2 now, some care, some dont.

 

That is what makes me batty, I cannot argue that once a book is worked on it isn't what it is. I have come to realize it IS what it IS. Non disclosure is what peeves me more , now..

 

 

 

[Aman619]

true enough, it IS what is is now. But youre glossing over the root cause of the issue in making that statement: There isnt total hobbywide agreement about what to call the effort that affected the improvement in grade. That is, many still feel it was 'restored' to a better condition/grade and is therefore forever to be classified as Restored. While a (growing?) minority (or is it already a majority?) of collectors (who are AWARE of this issue) see the book only for what is is now, since what was done to improve the book is NOT considered 'restoration' and therefore it is still a worthy HG book for their collections.

 

I of course want to know what was done, and would choose not to buy these books. And thats where disclosure is key, and of course why disclosure is so hard a concept to sell to dealers etc.

[namralos]

Let's see...

The grade only goes up 0.7 points (from 8.5 to 9.2), so it's "not much."

On the other hand, at the top end of the scale, that many points can make a difference in the resale price of a large chunk of the "near mint" value.

What if a book goes from 9.4 to 10.0?

Then again, going from 0.5 to 1.5 wouldn't do much.

 

I guess it depends on what you're looking at: the 'numerical scale,' or the effect that the cleaning and pressing has on resale, or something else....

[shadroch]

To a buyer or a seller,the only thing that matters is how much the value increased.In dollars.