Crippen collection

[The Black Hand ®]

True pedigree quality books are never sold off raw in this day and age and is definitely not the signature of a Top 5 pedigree in my opinion.

 

I wish that were 100% true. Metropolis is sitting on 100's of RAW Mile Highs, along with many other pedigree books that are not slabbed by CGC.

 

It's nice to know that there are unslabbed pedigrees out there.

[pennynike1]

Perhaps. It would be nicer to know that those RAW books were now slabbed and available for sale

[adamstrange]

If I remember correctly, the first batch of Crippen books auctioned off by Heritage only came in with an overall average grade in the 8.2 range. On top of by, the bulk of the collection was not deemed to be slab worthy from a relative value vis-a-vis grade point of view and were simply sold off raw by Heritage.

 

True pedigree quality books are never sold off raw in this day and age and is definitely not the signature of a Top 5 pedigree in my opinion.

Well, keep in mind that a huge number of MH books from the McLaughlin collection were also sold off raw by Heritage, even though many were of NM or higher range.

 

I think that was a fairly unusual scenario due to the instructions of the court responsible for the estate. It was definitely not what Heritage wanted to do or recommends and we've generally only seen major auctions of CGC'd Church copies over the last 5 years or so. Still raw sales of Church copies or others pedigrees are regularly handled by Metro and other key dealers and collectors.

[The Black Hand ®]

Perhaps. It would be nicer to know that those RAW books were now slabbed and available for sale

 

Wouldn't you buy one of those raw from a reputable dealer like metro. or would it have to be slabbed?

[G.A.tor]

Perhaps. It would be nicer to know that those RAW books were now slabbed and available for sale

 

Wouldn't you buy one of those raw from a reputable dealer like metro. or would it have to be slabbed?

many of the peds, especially the Crippen's, and Rockfords and Reily's and MH and Cosmic Aeroplane, etc have distinctive traits that lend one to easily identify the pedigree...that said, there are many within the Peds that are tough to identify, and there, CGC is tops

rick

[esquirecomics]

Would it be either fair or accurate (and indeed preferably both) to say that the many of the "D" books, which were stolen, featured many of the keys from the overall Crippen collection?

 

Essentially, could any rhyme or reason be discerned to reflect some sort of pattern or grouping with the original group of books that were stolen?

[tth2]

If I remember correctly, the first batch of Crippen books auctioned off by Heritage only came in with an overall average grade in the 8.2 range. On top of by, the bulk of the collection was not deemed to be slab worthy from a relative value vis-a-vis grade point of view and were simply sold off raw by Heritage.

 

True pedigree quality books are never sold off raw in this day and age and is definitely not the signature of a Top 5 pedigree in my opinion.

Well, keep in mind that a huge number of MH books from the McLaughlin collection were also sold off raw by Heritage, even though many were of NM or higher range.

 

I think that was a fairly unusual scenario due to the instructions of the court responsible for the estate. It was definitely not what Heritage wanted to do or recommends and we've generally only seen major auctions of CGC'd Church copies over the last 5 years or so. Still raw sales of Church copies or others pedigrees are regularly handled by Metro and other key dealers and collectors.

As I understand it, McLaughlin's estate refused to pay for the slabbing fees. Therefore, it was solely at Heritage's discretion, and its own dime, whether to slab the books or not. I would guess that they therefore did a simple calculation for many of the books as to whether the slabbing fee would exceed the likely increase in their commission. Since many of McLaughlin's MH books were of the non-mainstream variety, it's not surprising that the calculation resulted in a decision to not slab most of the books, particularly since market indications were that many of the books would sell for multiples even if raw (which they did). CGC's volume constraints may have further influenced Heritage's decision to not slab many.

[pennynike1]

Perhaps. It would be nicer to know that those RAW books were now slabbed and available for sale

 

Wouldn't you buy one of those raw from a reputable dealer like metro. or would it have to be slabbed?

 

In short, if I am going to pay over $1k for a pedigree book, I want it to be slabbed.

A reputable dealer can still make mistakes regarding pedigree designation, and in my mind, it would seem to be a good thing for a seller's repute to give the buyer a firm understanding of what exactly they are purchasing. I don't want to have to wager if a book is going to come back a certain grade from CGC.

[pennynike1]

Would it be either fair or accurate (and indeed preferably both) to say that the many of the "D" books, which were stolen, featured many of the keys from the overall Crippen collection?

 

Essentially, could any rhyme or reason be discerned to reflect some sort of pattern or grouping with the original group of books that were stolen?

 

This is an intriguing question, and I am certainly eager to hear others thoughts. I have to think that the answer is more along the lines of what this particular worker thought were the most valuable, perhaps even after some research. One has to wonder whey he didn't snag up some of the titles such as Phantom Lady, Suspense, etc.

 

If the guy was intending to steal them, why didn't he do it in larger quantities? Did he really have so much leisure time to paw through the books one-by-one?

 

[lou_fine]

So, would you rather have a pedigree that has 1000 books that are all 9.0-9.6 or a pedigree that has 12000 books of which "only" a couple thousand are in the 9.0-9.6 range?

 

If I remember correctly, there was not a single 9.6 Crippen book out of those first offerings from Heritage and probably only a small handful of 9.4's at the most. Virtually everything was 9.0 and below, with the odd 9.2 sprinkled in here and there.

 

This is how I view the relative merits of a pedigree. Although the Church books did have some less than stellar condition books (8.0 or less) in the collection, to me the overwhelming signature of that collection is pure high grade. Although the Crippen books did have a few superb condition books (9.4 or better) in the collection, to me the overwhelming signature of that collection is less than pure high grade.

[lou_fine]

True pedigree quality books are never sold off raw in this day and age and is definitely not the signature of a Top 5 pedigree in my opinion.

 

I wish that were 100% true. Metropolis is sitting on 100's of RAW Mile Highs, along with many other pedigree books that are not slabbed by CGC.

 

Alright, you guys are definitely right here! (thumbs u

 

Long-time dealers such as Metro can definitely sell their peidgree books raw based upon either distinctive markings on the book or simply on the reputation of the dealer. Needless to say though, the raw book will still be fully priced as though it had already been certified.

[esquirecomics]

Would it be either fair or accurate (and indeed preferably both) to say that the many of the "D" books, which were stolen, featured many of the keys from the overall Crippen collection?

 

Essentially, could any rhyme or reason be discerned to reflect some sort of pattern or grouping with the original group of books that were stolen?

 

This is an intriguing question, and I am certainly eager to hear others thoughts. I have to think that the answer is more along the lines of what this particular worker thought were the most valuable, perhaps even after some research. One has to wonder whey he didn't snag up some of the titles such as Phantom Lady, Suspense, etc.

 

If the guy was intending to steal them, why didn't he do it in larger quantities? Did he really have so much leisure time to paw through the books one-by-one?

 

 

That is one way to look at it.

 

Does anyone know which books comprised the "D" collection? Is there a list anywhere?

[esquirecomics]

Would it be either fair or accurate (and indeed preferably both) to say that the many of the "D" books, which were stolen, featured many of the keys from the overall Crippen collection?

 

Essentially, could any rhyme or reason be discerned to reflect some sort of pattern or grouping with the original group of books that were stolen?

 

This is an intriguing question, and I am certainly eager to hear others thoughts. I have to think that the answer is more along the lines of what this particular worker thought were the most valuable, perhaps even after some research. One has to wonder whey he didn't snag up some of the titles such as Phantom Lady, Suspense, etc.

 

If the guy was intending to steal them, why didn't he do it in larger quantities? Did he really have so much leisure time to paw through the books one-by-one?

 

 

That is one way to look at it.

 

Does anyone know which books comprised the "D" collection? Is there a list anywhere?

 

Surprised no one has weighed in on this question.

[lou_fine]

Would it be either fair or accurate (and indeed preferably both) to say that the many of the "D" books, which were stolen, featured many of the keys from the overall Crippen collection?

 

Essentially, could any rhyme or reason be discerned to reflect some sort of pattern or grouping with the original group of books that were stolen?

 

This is an intriguing question, and I am certainly eager to hear others thoughts. I have to think that the answer is more along the lines of what this particular worker thought were the most valuable, perhaps even after some research. One has to wonder whey he didn't snag up some of the titles such as Phantom Lady, Suspense, etc.

 

If the guy was intending to steal them, why didn't he do it in larger quantities? Did he really have so much leisure time to paw through the books one-by-one?

 

 

That is one way to look at it.

 

Does anyone know which books comprised the "D" collection? Is there a list anywhere?

 

Surprised no one has weighed in on this question.

 

The best person to answer this question would be Fishler himself who does not appear to be spending as much time on these boards as he used to. Maybe you can try to give him a PM.

 

I believe the contractor was no dummy here as he went for the recognizable characters and the earlier books. Can't remember any specific books to back this up, as this is based more upon stories on the D books as compared to what came out from the Crippen collection.

 

As for the Phantom Ladys and the Suspense, these kinds of obscure esoteric books did not gain popularity with collectors until after the D collection first appeared on the scene. Books of this type were definitely not on the radar screen of the general public at that time (or even now). No doubt the contractor's knowledge was most likely more closely linked to the general public as opposed to the true collector.