Why Sellers Should Consider "0 Feedback" Bidding Policies

[Mike Dillon-migration]

Yup, either someone working for a seller, or perhaps maybe you pissed off someone and they're going to make sure you pay your max bid for everything you bid on.

[BronzeBruce13]

I did, basically saying that the activity was clearly "questionable" and that I was of the opinion that all his bids should be negated making my winning bid a little less. I was far more annoyed at the manipulation then the dollar value lost in this case, but as Mar-Vell pointed out, had it been substantially more that I lost… how the heck should these situations be handled?

 

The sellers response was polite enough (I know him somewhat, not too much) and he said he would sell me the book at the lower price, but wanted to contact the underbidder and give him the option of buying it first at $74.99. That may or may not be reasonable in this case, that's why I wanted input. I was admittedly annoyed at the underbidders conduct and the result. I felt taken advantage of.

 

My response to the seller's wanting to give the underbidder the option to buy at $74.99 was one of surprise. I thought that I, as the winning bidder (and being legitimate) should have been the one whose position should have been given priority. It seemed to me, that the seller's preferred course of action gave undeserved options to the underbidder and were also in his best interests, not mine. Had he had a "0-Feedback Bidding Policy" in place to attempt to protect his bidders from this activity, I may have felt differently… not sure. I politely informed him that I was annoyed with the situation at that point and surprised at his "take on it" and the direction of his focus, and that I would pay the full amount… and did.

 

Should I have handled this differently?… what would everyone else have done in my shoes? What would you expect the seller to do?

 

I'd contact the seller and tell him I was a victim of a scam, see how he wanted to deal with it. The retraction is part of the 'bid cancellation history', so he'll know you're not making it up. See if he'll sell it for your pre-bump bid.

[BronzeBruce13]

Interesting… you feel the seller should give the underbidder the option to buy it, he suggested that and I was not in favor of it for several reasons.

 

Why does the underbidder deserve that option at this stage when I do want the book. Couldn't he accept after the fact for any number of reasons obvious and not? Just for starters, assuming he was up to no good and realized he was noticed and could be reported for this, wouldn't he lean towards completing the deal? There are plenty of other reasons too… all ending with me as the loser and the seller a winner with a higher sale.

 

 

Shill on a fishing trip, plain and simple. I would let the seller 2nd chance offer this shill, and if not only offer $67, which is what it would have ended up at had this bidder not been involved. OR, you can report this to ebay, move along, and not buy it (I wouldn't on this one).

[BronzeBruce13]

I assume the latter is a possibilty… I bid on a lot of stuff, although I'm not much of a sniper compared to most.

 

 

 

Yup, either someone working for a seller, or perhaps maybe you pissed off someone and they're going to make sure you pay your max bid for everything you bid on.

[Davenport]

 

The sellers response was polite enough (I know him somewhat, not too much) and he said he would sell me the book at the lower price, but wanted to contact the underbidder and gave him the option of buying it first at $74.99. That may or may not be reasonable in this case, that's why I wanted input. I was admittedly annoyed at the underbidders conduct and the result. I felt taken advantage of.

 

My response to the seller's wanting to give the underbidder the option to buy at $74.99 was one of surprise.

Not speaking about your specific auction, because I don't know the players.

 

But in general.......

That's another tell. Forget the oddball manuvers and look to gut-feelings and the final result:

"clearly questionable"

"annoyed"

"one of surprise"

"taken advantage of"

(your radar is pinging like crazy)

 

Result: you paid.

 

In general that's what scams do, get a "nice reasonable" person to ignore all their inner warning systems and pay anyway. They're used because they work.

[kc120us]

Thanks for the reply.

I'm reasonably confident that the seller in this case had no direct hand in a "bid retraction" scam, I'm more interested in the bidders motives and what the rules are for retractions that late in the game.

 

That said, if you were a (innocent) seller and were presented with the same circumstances… what conclusions would you arrive at, and what actions would you take with regards to both the underbidder and winning bidder… and what steps would you take with future auctions? I'm very interested in opinons on these questions.

 

It strikes me as odd that the other bidder would push you up to your max, outbid you, than retract it, then place a second bid that was just under your max. If the zero bidder was serious about winning the auction, he would've let his outbid stand and win the auction. If the price (your max) was too much for him to pay, then he should have retracted all of his bids. It doesn't make any sense unless he was working for the seller. I usally ask all bidders with less than 10 feedback to email me prior to bidding to gage their seriousness. If it was me selling, and the winning bidder was unhappy with such circumstances, I'd be willing to settle for the bidder's bid prior to the bump. But, I'd keep that buyers ID on record in case something similar happens in another auction with the same bidder.

 

Casey

 

Where do you see that?

The $74.99 bid was placed before the retracted bid of $79.99.

This guy also seems to be winning big $ auctions the last few days.

It may just be a goofy noobie.

 

My mistake he made two under bids then outbid Bruce, then retracted the outbid. It still smells fishy. He made two bids that were below Bruce's max. At this time he knew he was outbid by Bruce. The he places a third bid that beats out Bruce's bid. What was he tryng to do? Not win the auction?

 

I always like to give people the benefit of the doubt if there isn't really obvious shill evidence in their bid history.

I just think there's a very slight chance he bid and then realised he didn't want to buy the book that high.

Obviously, the "74.99" and "79.99" bids are not good signs, neither is the fact a noobie knew how to retract bids so soon after starting his Ebay life.

Probably a banned former ID.

It is possible that he was a noob just making a mistake.

[BronzeBruce13]

Assuming so… at what point specifically did he make a mistake, and what was it?

 

• when he carefully incrementally bid his way up?

• when he didn't notice the next bid would put him in the lead over my bid?

• when he took the lead by $5? (not an amount associated with an mistake)

• when he retracted it?

• when he didn't bid again at the end?

 

 

Please expalin, I don't get that it could be a mistake. Maybe "bidder remorse/having second thoughts about spending the money" at best is all I can come up with. However, one would think legit "remorse of this kind" would take longer than a 64 seconds…(the time it took between his last bid and the actual retraction). So, the decision was made in a fraction of that time as it takes a little time to retract a bid… probably far more than 64 seconds if you're "truly" a noob.

 

 

It is possible that he was a noob just making a mistake.

[kc120us]

Assuming so… at what point specifically did he make a mistake, and what was it?

 

• when he carefully incrementally bid his way up?

• when he didn't notice the next bid would put him in the lead over my bid?

• when he took the lead by $5? (not an amount associated with an mistake)

• when he retracted it?

• when he didn't bid again at the end?

 

 

Please expalin, I don't get that it could be a mistake. Maybe "bidder remorse/having second thoughts about spending the money" at best is all I can come up with. However, one would think legit "remorse of this kind" would take longer than a 64 seconds…(the time it took between his last bid and the actual retraction). So, the decision was made in a fraction of that time as it takes a little time to retract a bid… probably far more than 64 seconds if you're "truly" a noob.

 

 

It is possible that he was a noob just making a mistake.

 

I agree with you Bruce. As i has stated in my earlier posts, it is very suspect. This last post was just response to TheGreatest post that it is possible he was just a noob. Possible. But highly unlikely. If I had been in your shoes when the seller responded to your email by offering to sell the book to the underbidder, I would've said fine and washed my hands of it. The whole thing smells very fishy. I have a feeling had you done that it would've been relisted soon after. But, at the same time, I understand your desire to have the book. The book you legitimately won. Thus, I also understand why you went ahead and bought the book

 

I'm on your side

[BronzeBruce13]

my bad… I thought that was your position… which would've been fine.

 

I just need to understand at what point a mistake was made, and what it was exactly in that case.

[kc120us]

my bad… I thought that was your position… which would've been fine.

 

I just need to understand at what point a mistake was made, and what it was exactly in that case.

 

Have you bought from this guy before?

[BronzeBruce13]

I think so… been awhile.

[Timmay]

The mystery bidder is a *spoon* shill, plain and simple. My option to let him have it on 2nd chance was just a play....the seller wouldn't want to buy his own comic on a shill acct, and if the shill wasn't the seller bidding on it, it would be the same result. I would pass on this one, unless you could buy it on the side at a more reasonable (fair) price.

 

TimMaY

[dopy02]

figueirarobert1 has been added to my bidder/buyer "blocked" list:

[esquirecomics]

Your question raises the issue in my mind for different reasons. After being on e-bay for nine years under three usernames (which are used for different purposes, business vs. personal, etc), and attaining in excess of 600 positive feedbacks, I received my first negative comment under my ebay user name EsquireComics. In fact, I received two because the winning bidder won two auctions for JFK assassination books.

 

The winner has 0 feedback. These were small cost items (totalled $75) but the fact that a new user won them immediately had me thinking this was a potential set-up. I sent the buyer an e-mail through ebay immediately after the close of the auction (which was a Wednesday) informing him I was on the West Coast for work and would not be able to ship the books, which were in Maryland, until Monday. I also informed him I would be happy to combine the books into one shipment to save him money and did he have a preferred shipping method.

 

I never received a direct response. Instead I received complaints that he wanted the books sent to him within 48 hours because he had a 10 hour plane ride on Saturday and he wanted to read them. I was criticized as being rude and condescending and he doinked me twice on feedback. Never once have I ever received such complaints. His big complaint appears to be he never received an invoice from me, which was initially correct because I had no idea what shipping would cost by combining the two sets of books. Eventually I sent him invoices with separate shipping costs. Of course, that did nothing and he even continued in his reply feedback to say I never sent him an invoice (which of course ebay records contradicts). In fact, I have still not received payment from him.

 

I have complained to ebay and opened a dispute. Not surprising, he has failed to respond except for the additional negative comment he left me in the feedback section. Eventually I will hopefully have the negatives removed but it brought to light the issue regarding whether I should adopt a policy, as others have, that in order for an individual to bid on my items with less than a certain number of feedback, prior approval must be sought.

 

This can backfire though. I sold a Superman #2 CGC 8.0 for $15,500 on ebay to a buyer with just 2 feedbacks. He was the only bidder. I thought for sure that was a set-up as well, but it turned out to be completely legit.

 

Anyone have any thoughts as to whether I should adopt such a policy? Perhaps establish a policy creating a right of refusal if a bidder with 0 feedback doesn't identify himself first?

 

Anyone have any suggestions as to how to get ebay to remove the negatives?

[Timmay]

You should be able to have the neg removed if ebay gives him the boot since he never paid for your items. I guess you can list that 0 feedback buyers should contact you first before bidding (I do), but there is no way to block them from bidding on your auctions. I guess the flip side to this is that we all started out on ebay with zero feedback.

[kc120us]

Mark, it is a tough situation you are in. I think in order for the neg's to be removed both parties have to agree. But i'm not sure. And this guy sounds like a real *spoon* for reacting in the manner he did. As for your dispute, It sounds like you have a solid case. You have the initial emails you sent him to show you were in contact with the seller. You have the invoices. Since the buyer made no attempt to contact you and refuses to pay, it should be a no-brainer. Good luck.

[Stromm]

No question about it, the negs will be removed if you follow all ebays steps for new users who leave negs

 

general rules I follow with low feedback buyers

Never e-mail a buyer, always have everyone communicate through e-bay message service

Never respond to the e-mail notice ebays sends if their is a question, always log into your account to make sure it's real

 

Unless a question is asked, your first communication with a buyer will be an invoice

 

You can set your preference to how many BUSINESS days you will ship after payment is made

 

also, if a buyer, regardless of feedback, gives me any kind of grief, I'll block them so I don't have to put up with their attitude next time.

 

If a zero or low feedback bidder, that has asked too many stupid questions, or has a questionable bidding history,( , can't search that now, thanks ebay), I'll block them as soon as they are outbid.

 

my time is too valuable to deal with *spoon*.

[esquirecomics]

No question about it, the negs will be removed if you follow all ebays steps for new users who leave negs

 

Stromm, thanks for the info above. E-bay's system is completely confusing and time consuming when attempting to remedy problems. I've done what I believe I can at this time but I am intruigued by your specific reference to a procedure that pertains to new users leaving negative feedback.

 

I don't recall coming across such a specific process. Can you please point me to it?

 

Thanks again!

[Stromm]

if I understand your situatation.

 

December 08, 2005 | 03:11PM PST/PT

Hi... I'm Brian Burke, Senior Marketplace Policy Manager for Feedback.

Last month we launched a change to the feedback system that requires members who have 10 or less feedback to complete a brief tutorial before leaving their first neutral or negative feedback (read the announcement). At that time, I also announced that this month we will begin removing feedback ratings left by buyers who don't respond to the Unpaid Item claim process on eBay. This change is now live

web page

[kc120us]

if I understand your situatation.

 

December 08, 2005 | 03:11PM PST/PT

Hi... I'm Brian Burke, Senior Marketplace Policy Manager for Feedback.

Last month we launched a change to the feedback system that requires members who have 10 or less feedback to complete a brief tutorial before leaving their first neutral or negative feedback (read the announcement). At that time, I also announced that this month we will begin removing feedback ratings left by buyers who don't respond to the Unpaid Item claim process on eBay. This change is now live

web page

 

Good job, Stromm