Are comic investments a better option than 401K's and Mutual Funds

[TiQuinn]

 

true, but there is also alot more fun involved

 

Of course, you won't be saying that when JC's Great 6 to 10 Year Price Correction comes along!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAcOUGHcoughHACKlung

 

[whomerjay]

there is no need to get into all that. if you buy 5000 silver age comics in vf+ or better. in 15 years you will be able to turn those books over for a super nice profit.

 

My guess is you'll lose your arse.

 

i totally disagree. the further we get away from when comics were printed the more they are going to be worth.

 

There are several 10 cent GA books (and several SA books) out there worth relatively little compared to if you had simply put the 10 cents into a savings account at the time the book was released. Had you put the ten cents into stocks, it would have kicked major spoon relative to the comic appreciation.

[the blob]

"Well sure there are "lots" of Picasso works out there but like any high art piece there are only ONE of each piece."

 

There are some "limited" edition art repros and books out there also selling for an obscene amount of money, not just uniqie pieces of art. perhaps not seven digits, but many many are in the six digits and heck, some of these are in the seven digits.

 

As for there being only "one" of any given picasso, yeah, that's true, but I don't think they go for $10 million or whatever a pop because 8 rich collectors/museums decide they "need" that particular picture of a woman looking at a bowl, but rather, they want to buy a picasso, that's what they go for, etc. sure, exceptional ones will get into bidding wars and might result in some $90 million result like what happened a little while ago (that wasn't even all that great, heck, if that one was $90 million (some painting of a girfriend or whatever), Guernica should sell for $500-$700 million.

[skybolt]

Personally, I don't think that comics are a good investment (at least not for me). However, like others have mentioned, I don't think of it as throwing money down the tubes either. I certainly can't afford to lose every single dime I've put into this hobby, but I can afford taking a 5-10% hit when selling years down the line. Heck, if you spend $100,000 on buying books today, and sell them 10 years later for $95K (deducting insurance, consigning fees, etc.), then that still comes to $500 of discretionary spending per year. I would much rather own some great GA and SA books at that price than spend this money on reading moderns, or perhaps going out drinking (as others have mentioned).

 

The only reason why I spend so much of my income on comic books is because I love the hobby, and because I'm single (no wife or kids). The dynamics would completely change if I was married, where now I had to think of others and not just myself. Another benefit to mutual funds or even CD's is that you can be a complete novice, and still make a decent amount invsting your money in these ventures. However, with comics books, most people would basically have to spend several years of shopping around and learning new tricks before perfecting the art. Heck, if I took out my first year of loose cannon back-issue purchases, I may just have moved out of the red by now.

[Monkeyman]

there is no need to get into all that. if you buy 5000 silver age comics in vf+ or better. in 15 years you will be able to turn those books over for a super nice profit.

 

My guess is you'll lose your arse.

 

i totally disagree. the further we get away from when comics were printed the more they are going to be worth.

 

There are several 10 cent GA books (and several SA books) out there worth relatively little compared to if you had simply put the 10 cents into a savings account at the time the book was released. Had you put the ten cents into stocks, it would have kicked major spoon relative to the comic appreciation.

 

 

According to the Ibbotson 2006 Yearbook, large cap U.S. stocks compounded at 11.0% between 1935 and 2005. 10 cents invested in 1935 would be worth $150 today. These same stocks compounded at 10.3% between 1965 and 2005. 12 cents invested in 1965 would be worth $6 today.

 

If you had invested in small cap stocks over the same periods your 10 cents would be worth $1,324 (14.5% compounded) and your 12 cents would be worth $23 (14% compounding).

 

It is possible, if you had picked the right investment, that you could have outperformed comics over the very long term. Generally though, comics have done extremely well. That doesn't mean that a 2000-2 type stock market meltdown isn't just around the corner in the comic market. All these calculations are end date sensitive.

 

Mike

[action1kid]

Depends whos handling your 401k.It is not a lock that you will make anything there either.

[Aman619]

Comics are surefire investments.

Comiucs are lousy investments.

 

both statements are true, depending on WHAT you buy and what you PAY. I dare say Picasso will have a far longer and stronger appeal than comics. But not some lousy print from his later years that were banged out just like any other manufactured collectible.

[Kevin76]

Ever notice when a newspaper runs an article on comic books as investments that have a huge pay off then start listing off all kinds of crazy auction prices,it's always for a Detective 27, Action 1, AF 15 in NM,FF 1 in NM ect... then the reader, who has no real knowlage turns and says "I better get some comics" or "I better save mine" and it's usually junk in the worst possible shape. I really don't like reading articles like this cause it's almost misleading the reader...If you look between the lines (not to sound clithe') but it's always the same books listed that hardly anyone ever finds or has...I don't know anyone personally that has a Detective 27 in any grade.But articles like it in the newspaper make it sound like it's possible to achive the impossible.Keep playing your numbers with the state lottery,you have a better chance than finding an Action 1 in your basement.

[Mr. Zipper]

Ever notice when a newspaper runs an article on comic books as investments that have a huge pay off then start listing off all kinds of crazy auction prices,it's always for a Detective 27, Action 1, AF 15 in NM,FF 1 in NM ect... then the reader, who has no real knowlage turns and says "I better get some comics" or "I better save mine" and it's usually junk in the worst possible shape. I really don't like reading articles like this cause it's almost misleading the reader...If you look between the lines (not to sound clithe') but it's always the same books listed that hardly anyone ever finds or has...I don't know anyone personally that has a Detective 27 in any grade.But articles like it in the newspaper make it sound like it's possible to achive the impossible.Keep playing your numbers with the state lottery,you have a better chance than finding an Action 1 in your basement.

 

Absolutely... most of the books that are sure-fire investments are beyond the means of 99.99% of the collecting community.

 

As they say, it takes money to make money. Any books that are readily available and affordable to the average collector are most likely a roll of the dice when it comes to investment potential.

[Monstro]

there is no need to get into all that. if you buy 5000 silver age comics in vf+ or better. in 15 years you will be able to turn those books over for a super nice profit.

 

My guess is you'll lose your arse.

 

i totally disagree. the further we get away from when comics were printed the more they are going to be worth.

 

There are several 10 cent GA books (and several SA books) out there worth relatively little compared to if you had simply put the 10 cents into a savings account at the time the book was released. Had you put the ten cents into stocks, it would have kicked major spoon relative to the comic appreciation.

 

 

According to the Ibbotson 2006 Yearbook, large cap U.S. stocks compounded at 11.0% between 1935 and 2005. 10 cents invested in 1935 would be worth $150 today. These same stocks compounded at 10.3% between 1965 and 2005. 12 cents invested in 1965 would be worth $6 today.

 

If you had invested in small cap stocks over the same periods your 10 cents would be worth $1,324 (14.5% compounded) and your 12 cents would be worth $23 (14% compounding).

 

It is possible, if you had picked the right investment, that you could have outperformed comics over the very long term. Generally though, comics have done extremely well. That doesn't mean that a 2000-2 type stock market meltdown isn't just around the corner in the comic market. All these calculations are end date sensitive.

 

Mike

 

[whomerjay]

there is no need to get into all that. if you buy 5000 silver age comics in vf+ or better. in 15 years you will be able to turn those books over for a super nice profit.

 

My guess is you'll lose your arse.

 

i totally disagree. the further we get away from when comics were printed the more they are going to be worth.

 

There are several 10 cent GA books (and several SA books) out there worth relatively little compared to if you had simply put the 10 cents into a savings account at the time the book was released. Had you put the ten cents into stocks, it would have kicked major spoon relative to the comic appreciation.

 

 

According to the Ibbotson 2006 Yearbook, large cap U.S. stocks compounded at 11.0% between 1935 and 2005. 10 cents invested in 1935 would be worth $150 today. These same stocks compounded at 10.3% between 1965 and 2005. 12 cents invested in 1965 would be worth $6 today.

 

If you had invested in small cap stocks over the same periods your 10 cents would be worth $1,324 (14.5% compounded) and your 12 cents would be worth $23 (14% compounding).

 

It is possible, if you had picked the right investment, that you could have outperformed comics over the very long term. Generally though, comics have done extremely well. That doesn't mean that a 2000-2 type stock market meltdown isn't just around the corner in the comic market. All these calculations are end date sensitive.

 

Mike

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/sho...e=1#Post1522455

 

“Ok, a few months ago I worked out a deal where I purchased a large amount of silver age longboxes at $900/box. I've since found out I've probably overpaid.”

 

Anyone care to guess what the mean and median values are for SA comics today? My guess is the average SA comic is at best VG (probably much worse when you consider most are GONE), it's probably a Dell or some cartoon character 4 color, worth less than $4.

 

 

 

If you want to argue that someone in 1965 had the foresight to preserve books in NM condition (few did), I'll argue that same person had the foresight to buy IBM (which many did).

[whomerjay]

I gave examples of what most would consider to have been the best comic investments in history (GA and SA when they came out) and the return still can't beat the most pedestrian form of conventional investment.

[TiQuinn]

Sure, if someone had the foresight to invest in GA Supermans or Batmans or SA Marvels, and preserve them according to today's standards, then they could've had incredible returns. But do you see anything today that you can pick off the rack at a comic book store that you feel confident will provide the same return that those books did? The value of those older comics are based not only upon their importance and popularity throughout the years, but also their scarcity. My dad had a Captain America #1 when he was a kid, but he read it, folded it up, stuck it in his backpocket, and then tossed it away.

[Aman619]

but you could have bought HG gold and silver keys ten years ago and paid thousnads apiece and STILL made incredible returns. Buying the best has always paid off... assuming you dont overpay, or sell too soon. What Im saying is you neednt have picked up a Cap#1 in 1940 for a dime to make astounding profits. Buying it 40 years later for 5K would have worked out pretty good too. Or an HG Action#1 20 years ago for 20K. or an AF15 for 5K.

 

which is not the same thing as buying Man Mountain Marko's first (and only??) appearance for $2200 this week!

[TiQuinn]

But that's a huge assumption about the ability to find those high grade books 10 years ago, and the ability to pay for them. Since then, we've had numerous supposedly high grade books that have been discovered to have trimming, restoration, etc. To get into that market, even 10 years ago, you're talking about a serious outlay of cash.

 

And it's not just about turning a profit. If you're not turning a profit, it's not an investment, period. But if you have to wait 15 years for a book to double in value and take a substantial amount of risk in the process, that's a poor investment. Yes, I made money, but I could've made so much more money in other ways without taking the same risk.

[the blob]

"According to the Ibbotson 2006 Yearbook, large cap U.S. stocks compounded at 11.0% between 1935 and 2005. 10 cents invested in 1935 would be worth $150 today. These same stocks compounded at 10.3% between 1965 and 2005. 12 cents invested in 1965 would be worth $6 today.

 

If you had invested in small cap stocks over the same periods your 10 cents would be worth $1,324 (14.5% compounded) and your 12 cents would be worth $23 (14% compounding)."

 

Doesn't factor in transaction/management costs (for a fund), which make all of those slightly lower for an actual person.

 

Also, I think someone pointed out that in reality, if you just owned let's say the 100 shares of each of what constituted the "large caps' in 1935, you might now have gotten 11%. What happens is that companies drop out of "large cap" classification (go bankrupt for example) and then new ones take their place. An index fund adjusts for all of this.

 

I think this is especially true for the quoted returns on small cap stocks.

 

Someone with a better understanding of these things can probably explain it better than I can. Just remember, the S&P 500 of today is not filled by the same companies as 10 years ago, though there is a fair amount of overlap. Push that back 70 years and I'd bet there's very little overlap.

[Monkeyman]

"According to the Ibbotson 2006 Yearbook, large cap U.S. stocks compounded at 11.0% between 1935 and 2005. 10 cents invested in 1935 would be worth $150 today. These same stocks compounded at 10.3% between 1965 and 2005. 12 cents invested in 1965 would be worth $6 today.

 

If you had invested in small cap stocks over the same periods your 10 cents would be worth $1,324 (14.5% compounded) and your 12 cents would be worth $23 (14% compounding)."

 

Doesn't factor in transaction/management costs (for a fund), which make all of those slightly lower for an actual person.

 

Also, I think someone pointed out that in reality, if you just owned let's say the 100 shares of each of what constituted the "large caps' in 1935, you might now have gotten 11%. What happens is that companies drop out of "large cap" classification (go bankrupt for example) and then new ones take their place. An index fund adjusts for all of this.

 

I think this is especially true for the quoted returns on small cap stocks.

 

Someone with a better understanding of these things can probably explain it better than I can. Just remember, the S&P 500 of today is not filled by the same companies as 10 years ago, though there is a fair amount of overlap. Push that back 70 years and I'd bet there's very little overlap.

 

That's right. As companies got bigger, smaller and/or went bankrupt you would continually be making transactions = costs = lower returns than shown for the market.

 

 

Anyone care to guess what the mean and median values are for SA comics today? My guess is the average SA comic is at best VG (probably much worse when you consider most are GONE), it's probably a Dell or some cartoon character 4 color, worth less than $4.

 

If you want to argue that someone in 1965 had the foresight to preserve books in NM condition (few did), I'll argue that same person had the foresight to buy IBM (which many did).

 

 

Anyone who was investing in comics decades ago would have bought off the shelf and put it away. They wouldn't have beat it down to a VG reading it. No foresight required, just the intention of investing.

 

This is getting really theoretical.

[shadroch]

Sure, if someone had the foresight to invest in GA Supermans or Batmans or SA Marvels, and preserve them according to today's standards, then they could've had incredible returns. But do you see anything today that you can pick off the rack at a comic book store that you feel confident will provide the same return that those books did? The value of those older comics are based not only upon their importance and popularity throughout the years, but also their scarcity. My dad had a Captain America #1 when he was a kid, but he read it, folded it up, stuck it in his backpocket, and then tossed it away.

 

Yes,in the last three years there have been half a dozen books that I have bought a case of.Books that should have a major impact on their universes for years to come. Bought them at almost 50% off.If,in five years,they haven't gone up several hundred percent,I'll donate them and have a tax writeoff several times my initial investment.Its really a no lose situation.

[TiQuinn]

Yes,in the last three years there have been half a dozen books that I have bought a case of.Books that should have a major impact on their universes for years to come. Bought them at almost 50% off.If,in five years,they haven't gone up several hundred percent,I'll donate them and have a tax writeoff several times my initial investment.Its really a no lose situation.

 

Good luck and I hope it works out well for you. I'll be happy to eat crow on this.

[shadroch]

Yes,in the last three years there have been half a dozen books that I have bought a case of.Books that should have a major impact on their universes for years to come. Bought them at almost 50% off.If,in five years,they haven't gone up several hundred percent,I'll donate them and have a tax writeoff several times my initial investment.Its really a no lose situation.

 

Good luck and I hope it works out well for you. I'll be happy to eat crow on this.

 

It has for the last thirty years. Started investing in select books in the late 70s and am well above the 1 out of 3 mark. Of course,it was a lot cheaper buying 200 copies of a 35 cent book than it is todays $3.00 books.

But if you pay $1.66 for it,and can flip them all for $5,its a nice tidy return.