Questions for CGC and the Liason Committee

[Ze-man]

So is this now the Liason Commitee, NOD, Babe Test thread or what?

 

I am confused, again

 

 

Ze-

[Forbush-Man]

So is this now the Liason Commitee, NOD, Babe Test thread or what?

 

I am confused, again

 

 

Ze-

 

 

[Sal]

My point is that she has all the depth, charisma and personality of a mannequin in that photograph.

 

if that pic ain't doin nothin for ya grampa, maybe you're the mannequin!

 

 

should i have posted a Grace Kelly or Audrey Hepburn pic? Or, more in line with your...experience...Helen of Troy?

 

[PovertyRow]

So is this now the Liason Commitee, NOD, Babe Test thread or what?

 

I am confused, again

 

 

Ze-

 

Actually you got it, Zeester. I was reading the NOD stuff and a sordid other things and wondering WTH this had to do with the liason committee.

[bluechip]

this is where i stopped reading, because for some reason or another, you keep missing the point.

 

all NOD wants is for any work done on a book to be proactively disclosed prior to exchange of money. that's bloody it, they ain't making any statements about the nature of pressing, about those who purchase pressed books, or the relative value of a book with or without pressing.

 

THEY JUST WANT IT DISCLOSED WHEN IT HAPPENS. THAT'S IT.

 

 

I think we both missed a point here, like all the stuff not quoted from my post, in which I agreed with the principle of disclosure, etc. Plus the fact that I was taking off not on what NOD said but on what other member said, and that I never said NOD took a stand -- hence the use of the word "if" at the beginning of the single sentence quoted out of context.

 

I would like to say just one thing nore...

 

[quote

 

,,, but I have forgotten suiddenly forgotten what it was.

[Ze-man]

What'sa Raga?

 

Is that some kind of sauce?

[MutantKeys]

My point is that she has all the depth, charisma and personality of a mannequin in that photograph.

 

if that pic ain't doin nothin for ya grampa, maybe you're the mannequin!

 

 

should i have posted a Grace Kelly or Audrey Hepburn pic? Or, more in line with your...experience...Helen of Troy?

 

Jessica Alba

[MutantKeys]

[PovertyRow]

My point is that she has all the depth, charisma and personality of a mannequin in that photograph.

 

if that pic ain't doin nothin for ya grampa, maybe you're the mannequin!

 

 

should i have posted a Grace Kelly or Audrey Hepburn pic? Or, more in line with your...experience...Helen of Troy?

 

Jessica Alba

 

Now ya see? The age in which the person lives does not negate any inerent quality. But that photo is just uninspiring. Then again, to me, perhpas due to my age and experiences, most photos are uninspiring. At least in the proferred context.

 

And to keep this on topic: 2 questions...

 

1) Will CGC ever again include the alpha grades along with the numerics?

 

2) Will CGC ever revert to a single label color for Universal, Restored and Qualified and simply include sufficient notes on the label?

[Lazyboy]

The fact of the matter is, we do not recommend Matt simply because we like Matt, or we have some sort of personal relationship that demands we show favoritism and promote his business. CGC has an obligation to promote the services where customers will receive the best product, and in this case, that means pressing without damaging the book. Without singling out names, in our experience, currently there are no other people who are trustworthy enough and/or provide very competent service that CGC feels confident in recommending. Throughout my conversations with dealers and collectors, I have constant feedback heard at conventions about how pleased they are with Matt's work and the customer service. Not only that, I am able to see the quality of work as many times dealers and collectors will show me a book that they have had graded that was pressed -- and the quality of the work is simply outstanding. Matt is honest and straightforward in his dealings with CGC. He is not trying to hide anything or destroy books. I believe if he screws up on a book and ends up damaging it, he will make good and would make an appropriate refund or compensate the owner for the book. I don't know if others would do that and can't tell my clients they would.

 

New collectors come to our forums, read about pressing and think to themselves, "I'd like to take that small bend that has been really bugging me out of my book; I think I will get it pressed. CGC wants them to go to a place that will not damage the comic book.

 

Hypothetically, if Susan Cicconi was promoting CGC certification and were still doing pressing or dry cleaning and we could verify she was doing high quality work, CGC would be MORE than happy to add her name to Matt's as someone CGC could point collectors to.

 

Hypothetically, if Susan were still doing pressing and her services were of similar quality to Matt's, but she wasn't promoting CGC in any way, or was maybe even anti-CGC...

[Nostalgic Attic]

 

i'm not even an NOD member!

 

Nobody's perfect.

 

she's pretty darned close;

 

 

She has all the depth, charisma and personality of a mannequin in that photograph.

 

What's your point?!?

 

 

 

I want a mannequin.................................

 

 

 

Well,........I do.......

 

My point is that she has all the depth, charisma and personality of a mannequin in that photograph.

 

It's not a photograph, it's a painting

[ciorac]

Thanks for positng this Foolkiller! Not to brag, but it is pretty much as I surmised before being poo-poohed!

 

I agree 150% with Steve's position on this.

 

I don't (as do most of the people who voted here: poll ), but hey - it's not my business or reputation.

 

True enough.

 

How many books do you slab a year? And what (ballpark) is your average spend for these books including purchase price?

 

If the answer is a really low number, they probably could care less what you think. No offense at all intended drice, I mean that. But, they will cater to those who spend the most.

 

Do you think Porsche cares what Ford drivers think?

 

I'm just asking here...

 

So if a lot of people are getting books pressed and submitted or re-submitted, then it is a significant revenue stream for them.

 

Again, I hasten to add that I don't know what their stance is on what I just surmised, I simply surmised it.

 

And just for the record, as some like to point out that Matt and I are friends, ask him what I think about pressing, he will tell you that I think it is restoration. But my opinion matters not. So, it is what it is.

[CycleGirl]

From my conversation with Steve on Friday:

 

Q: I'm sure by now you've seen some of the outcry and complaints on the CGC boards regarding the fact that Matt Nelson is not only a paid advertiser on the boards, but also specifically mentioned by CGC as the recommended person for pressing needs. Why did CGC specifically single out Matt Nelson and seemingly promote him above any and all others?

 

 

 

A: For quite some time now, I and CGC as a whole, receive calls from both dealers and an increasing number of collectors asking about where they can get books pressed for their own personal reasons or for resale. If we answer that question privately, and say to people, We fee the person to use is Matt Nelson, it will look, especially to the boards even more devious than disclosing it outright.

 

 

 

The fact of the matter is, we do not recommend Matt simply because we like Matt, or we have some sort of personal relationship that demands we show favoritism and promote his business. CGC has an obligation to promote the services where customers will receive the best product, and in this case, that means pressing without damaging the book. Without singling out names, in our experience, currently there are no other people who are trustworthy enough and/or provide very competent service that CGC feels confident in recommending. Throughout my conversations with dealers and collectors, I have constant feedback heard at conventions about how pleased they are with Matt's work and the customer service. Not only that, I am able to see the quality of work as many times dealers and collectors will show me a book that they have had graded that was pressed -- and the quality of the work is simply outstanding. Matt is honest and straightforward in his dealings with CGC. He is not trying to hide anything or destroy books. I believe if he screws up on a book and ends up damaging it, he will make good and would make an appropriate refund or compensate the owner for the book. I don't know if others would do that and can't tell my clients they would.

 

New collectors come to our forums, read about pressing and think to themselves, "I'd like to take that small bend that has been really bugging me out of my book; I think I will get it pressed. CGC wants them to go to a place that will not damage the comic book.

 

Hypothetically, if Susan Cicconi was promoting CGC certification and were still doing pressing or dry cleaning and we could verify she was doing high quality work, CGC would be MORE than happy to add her name to Matt's as someone CGC could point collectors to.

 

Q: But why the need to single any one dealer/person out? Isn't CGC's job to remain impartial and not promote one dealer? It seems to have the strong appearance of favoritism.

 

A: I disagree with the basic idea you are implying in the question. CGC's job is to remain impartial in the grading, and not to show favoritism. The book in front of us is what it is. That's it. I never care about whose comic I am grading. We hold ourselves to a very high standard in the grading room and I am damn proud of this fact. Never once has a principal of the Certified Collectibles Group ever even alluded to one of the finalizers changing a grade for a big client or a friend of theirs.

 

But from a corporate standpoint, it would be foolish for CGC to take the position that we do not promote certain dealers who we view as positive for the community. In fact, it's part of the obligation of CGC. For better or worse, many collectors now look to CGC for advice. We as a corporation need to make responsible recommendations. That's why we have charter dealers and member dealers who we know and support and can say, this person is a CGC member dealer. We don't allow the Daniel Dupcaks of the world to advertise on our site or to promote their products. Likewise, as was evident from Jason Ewert, when CGC needs to take action against even a charter member, CGC will pull their support. If they continued to try and fool ouor fellow hobbyists, CGC would single that dealer out as untrustworthy.

 

Likewise, when it comes to practices such as pressing and dry cleaning, it is important that CGC make responsible recommendations. We simply do not have anyone but Matt who we have confidence in to make a recommendation or sufficient feedback to be able to observe the quality of their work with consistency. Q:

 

Excellent post! Thanks Foolkiller!

[Harvey Dude]

... CGC has an obligation to promote the services where customers will receive the best product[/b], and in this case, that means pressing without damaging the book. Without singling out names, in our experience, currently there are no other people who are trustworthy enough and/or provide very competent service that CGC feels confident in recommending.

 

Susan Cicconi is the best at restorative services and her professional credentials back this up.

Why is she not listed under the restoration section of the FAQ, if CGC is obligated to provide the customers the best product?

[Flaming_Telepath]

... CGC has an obligation to promote the services where customers will receive the best product[/b], and in this case, that means pressing without damaging the book. Without singling out names, in our experience, currently there are no other people who are trustworthy enough and/or provide very competent service that CGC feels confident in recommending.

 

Susan Cicconi is the best at restorative services and her professional credentials back this up.

Why is she not listed under the restoration section of the FAQ, if CGC is obligated to provide the customers the best product?

 

Because she has publically stated that she will no longer provided pressing services in isolation, but only as part of a greater restoration process.

 

Which would put a bit of a hole in CGC's revenue stream...

[Red Hook]

I appreciated Steve's answer. Whether I agree with all the points or not is less important than the fact that he took the bull by the horns and with a little prod from Brian, directly answered the concerns that had been raised. At least it's clear what CGC's position is, and it was laid out in a timely manner. And it won't fester for weeks and weeks.

 

Brad

[awe4one]

From my conversation with Steve on Friday:

 

Q: I'm sure by now you've seen some of the outcry and complaints on the CGC boards regarding the fact that Matt Nelson is not only a paid advertiser on the boards, but also specifically mentioned by CGC as the recommended person for pressing needs. Why did CGC specifically single out Matt Nelson and seemingly promote him above any and all others?

 

 

 

A: For quite some time now, I and CGC as a whole, receive calls from both dealers and an increasing number of collectors asking about where they can get books pressed for their own personal reasons or for resale. If we answer that question privately, and say to people, We fee the person to use is Matt Nelson, it will look, especially to the boards even more devious than disclosing it outright.

 

 

 

The fact of the matter is, we do not recommend Matt simply because we like Matt, or we have some sort of personal relationship that demands we show favoritism and promote his business. CGC has an obligation to promote the services where customers will receive the best product, and in this case, that means pressing without damaging the book. Without singling out names, in our experience, currently there are no other people who are trustworthy enough and/or provide very competent service that CGC feels confident in recommending. Throughout my conversations with dealers and collectors, I have constant feedback heard at conventions about how pleased they are with Matt's work and the customer service. Not only that, I am able to see the quality of work as many times dealers and collectors will show me a book that they have had graded that was pressed -- and the quality of the work is simply outstanding. Matt is honest and straightforward in his dealings with CGC. He is not trying to hide anything or destroy books. I believe if he screws up on a book and ends up damaging it, he will make good and would make an appropriate refund or compensate the owner for the book. I don't know if others would do that and can't tell my clients they would.

 

New collectors come to our forums, read about pressing and think to themselves, "I'd like to take that small bend that has been really bugging me out of my book; I think I will get it pressed. CGC wants them to go to a place that will not damage the comic book.

 

Hypothetically, if Susan Cicconi was promoting CGC certification and were still doing pressing or dry cleaning and we could verify she was doing high quality work, CGC would be MORE than happy to add her name to Matt's as someone CGC could point collectors to.

 

Q: But why the need to single any one dealer/person out? Isn't CGC's job to remain impartial and not promote one dealer? It seems to have the strong appearance of favoritism.

 

A: I disagree with the basic idea you are implying in the question. CGC's job is to remain impartial in the grading, and not to show favoritism. The book in front of us is what it is. That's it. I never care about whose comic I am grading. We hold ourselves to a very high standard in the grading room and I am damn proud of this fact. Never once has a principal of the Certified Collectibles Group ever even alluded to one of the finalizers changing a grade for a big client or a friend of theirs.

 

But from a corporate standpoint, it would be foolish for CGC to take the position that we do not promote certain dealers who we view as positive for the community. In fact, it's part of the obligation of CGC. For better or worse, many collectors now look to CGC for advice. We as a corporation need to make responsible recommendations. That's why we have charter dealers and member dealers who we know and support and can say, this person is a CGC member dealer. We don't allow the Daniel Dupcaks of the world to advertise on our site or to promote their products. Likewise, as was evident from Jason Ewert, when CGC needs to take action against even a charter member, CGC will pull their support. If they continued to try and fool ouor fellow hobbyists, CGC would single that dealer out as untrustworthy.

 

Likewise, when it comes to practices such as pressing and dry cleaning, it is important that CGC make responsible recommendations. We simply do not have anyone but Matt who we have confidence in to make a recommendation or sufficient feedback to be able to observe the quality of their work with consistency. Q:

 

Roughly translated..."we have every right, and obligation, to support those we feel support us and also we like their work. CGC doesn't think it's improper nor impacts our "impartiality"."

 

This just proves to me, yet again, that CGC is totally disconnected from what Comicdom perceives or thinks. If more than a handful of people on MY Forum was telling me such and such action was damaging my credibility, I'd have to give some serious thought about changing the stance instead of making excuses for it...

 

Jim

[Foolkiller]

Jim,

 

I'm only going to disagree with you insofar as stating that "comicdom" disagrees with the CGC position. This forum represents a small minority of the feelings and attitudes of the vast majority of collectors. A lot of the big collectors who I've met look at the forums with interest, but don't regard the opinions with seriousness for a variety of reasons.

 

The smaller collectors aren't even aware (and really don't care) about a lot of the issues which bother some of the forum members. The problem is that many people who send a ton of books to be graded, don't like the boards here and think of some of the members as just a fringe contigent, of, putting it bluntly, lunatics. That has nothing to do with the specific position they hold, but the constant bickering, juvenile presentation of opinions, and blatant misinformation posted.

 

To me, it isn't an excuse, so much as it is their business model. You may not like it -- but I really don't think there's enough evidence to say, they are out of touch with "comicdom".

[awe4one]

Jim,

 

I'm only going to disagree with you insofar as stating that "comicdom" disagrees with the CGC position. This forum represents a small minority of the feelings and attitudes of the vast majority of collectors. A lot of the big collectors who I've met look at the forums with interest, but don't regard the opinions with seriousness for a variety of reasons.

 

The smaller collectors aren't even aware (and really don't care) about a lot of the issues which bother some of the forum members. The problem is that many people who send a ton of books to be graded, don't like the boards here and think of some of the members as just a fringe contigent, of, putting it bluntly, lunatics. That has nothing to do with the specific position they hold, but the constant bickering, juvenile presentation of opinions, and blatant misinformation posted.

 

To me, it isn't an excuse, so much as it is their business model. You may not like it -- but I really don't think there's enough evidence to say, they are out of touch with "comicdom".

 

Maybe...but it not just the "fringe" posters objecting to this situation. If it were I'd probably agree with you. The fact there are others questioning this decision should signals alarms.

 

Jim

[TiQuinn]

I'll echo Foolkiller here, because I don't think these boards really reflect the hobby/industry at large. But I also think Jim's summation of what Steve said is dead on as well. They don't see the conflict of interest because CGC is a business, nothing more, nothing less. However, I do see the slippery slope given that people have to essentially take their word at face value that no favoritism in the grading process occurs.

 

I don't think CGC is the great evil of our time for this, however. They ARE a business, first and foremost, not a steward of the hobby that does what it does out of sheer love for comics. And for my own part, I can take a book that I bought a few years ago for $5, get it graded, have it come back as 9.x and sell it for $150 bucks. Yay, me. Their service does provides a value.