ASM 298 vs 300

[ubiquiti]

I still don't get why ASM 300 is worth double what 298 is...

I understand it is the first appearance of venom, but mcFarlane is one of the most ground-break artists of the modern era, right? his first book on the most popular superhero around should be worth more than the first appearance of some two-bit villain.

Look at bronze X-Men for example for the basis of my rationale:

X-Men 108 - Byrne art begins - $120(NM)

X-Men 121 - 1st full appearance Alpha FLight - $95(NM)

 

Alpha Flight, for a while, were pretty popular, and I would say had a similar impact of venom overall....

I would compare McFarlane to Byrne as far as artists of their era. So why is ASM different than X-Men?

Maybe I'm missing something.

[fantastic_four]

Venom is Spidey's best enemy in decades, and I think it's his best enemy ever. I can't say that Alpha Flight is anywhere near the best of anything in the X-Men world.

 

Even more than the comparative popularity of Venom vs. Alpha Flight is that Venom's first appearance happens to coincide with an anniversary issue, and they're always worth more.

[Warlord]

ASM #300 is also an anniversary issue, and is also a giant sized issue -- so that's two more minor contributing factors. There also seemed to be a production issue -- I seem to recall a buzz around the time that it came out that a lot of copies that were distrubuted were in rough shape.

 

But I agree, I think that #298 is more desirable. Three of my copies of #298 I got autographed by McFarlane at a con early during his rise to fame. There was still quite a crowd around him though. He left the signing table while I was waiting in line and moved away and still kept talking to fans and signing. Of course, we had him surrounded, so he had no choice!

 

I think he was working on the 30x issues around then. One comment he made around the time he signed my comics was that he thought that he still wasn't drawing Spidey's eyes large enough.

[500Club]

Most people don't regard Venom as a two-bit villain.... at least when he's not being written out of character and/or overexposed.

 

However, I agree with your point about the impact and importance of the McFarlane run.

 

As for damage on the 300, many copies had/have Marvel chipping like defects on the right edge.

[blowout]

I still don't get why ASM 300 is worth double what 298 is...I understand it is the first appearance of venom

 

Actually, as well as being Todd's first art on the title, ASM 298 is also the first apearance of Venom...Cameo appearance of course.

 

To address your main point. I think it is safe to say that major character first apps usually have a wider appeal to collectors/investors than that of artists. Artists popularity is a much harder to push a book up in value especially if they are no longer considered 'hot'.

Look what happened to the price on Jim Lee's first X-Men work when he wasn't drawing a regular book. The fact that McFarlane isn't drawing comics books anymore certainly isn't doing the value of ASM 298 any favors. You can bet that there are currently more fans out there for Venom than Todd McFarlane.

 

Also I must say Ubi that your Byrne comparison was also somewhat flawed.

Run that one past me again...Alpha who???

[awe4one]

Well I'll have to disagree here. #300 was the 1st appearance of a major villain in the Modern age. Can anyone else think of another Modern villain with half the impact?

 

Also, McFarlane had a memorable and lengthy run on Hulk before Spidey and had even done DC's Infinity Inc. before that. Therefore his Spidey was just another switch in artists that actually went well. He wasn't an unknown quantity that emerged on the market. Nothing breakout (or really unexpected) about it if you had seen his previous work.....

 

I actually wished he had stayed on Hulk....he draws monsters much better than people in my opinion and was better suited for that title.

 

 

Jim

[THE_BEYONDER]

I will NEVER forgive McFarlane for his "take" on WENDIGO in his "perceptions" storyline(Spider-man 8-12 I think). I like his art, but his handling of Wendigo was unforgivable....

[Susanville]

I still don't get why ASM 300 is worth double what 298 is...I understand it is the first appearance of venom

 

Actually, as well as being Todd's first art on the title, ASM 298 is also the first apearance of Venom...Cameo appearance of course.

 

Not that it really matters but Venom doesn't even appear in 298, even in a cameo. 298 is MacFarlane's first art on ASM and the first appearance of Eddie Brock who of course becomes Venom. Venom's first appearance (cameo, last page) is in 299.

 

So really it's MacFarlane's first and Brock (298) vs. first full Venom and anniversary issue (300). I think the latter has to win given the precedent set by Wolverine (Hulk 180 vs. 181 - which would you rather own?).

[ubiquiti]

I still don't get why ASM 300 is worth double what 298 is...I understand it is the first appearance of venom

 

Actually, as well as being Todd's first art on the title, ASM 298 is also the first apearance of Venom...Cameo appearance of course.

 

Not that it really matters but Venom doesn't even appear in 298, even in a cameo. 298 is MacFarlane's first art on ASM and the first appearance of Eddie Brock who of course becomes Venom. Venom's first appearance (cameo, last page) is in 299.

 

So really it's MacFarlane's first and Brock (298) vs. first full Venom and anniversary issue (300). I think the latter has to win given the precedent set by Wolverine (Hulk 180 vs. 181 - which would you rather own?).

Yeah, but assume that Hulk 180 was also, say, John Romita's first work on the book as well and that run went on for about 30 issues and it was wildly successful...

[Kevin Boyd]

Without any doubt, ASM 300 is the superior key. Because:

 

- 1st appearances of a popular, fan-favorite character

- double sized anniversary issue

- return of Spidey's regular costume.

- MacFarlane art

 

ASM298 is still a valuable key, but only because it marks the debut of MacFarlane on art. The story is nothing great, and has one of those late 80's lame-duck characters "Chance".

 

To make a bronze age analogy... what does the Overstreet say is more valuable... the first Neal Adams drawn Batman book or Detective 400 (1st Man-Bat)? Or for that matter, first Ra's Al Ghul?

 

Plus Alpha Flight has all but disappeared, while Venom is still thriving in the public eye (cartoons, his own series, possible villain in a future Spidey movie).

 

Kev

[vic6string]

The Alpha Flight vs. Venom thing makes me think of another point I have talked about, but never on this forum. Alpha Flight was indeed a reasonably hot commodity for a while (not as hot as Venom, but they did have their own long running series) But Alpha Flight was hot at the wrong time. Venom came on the scene just as the big "comics as an investment" boom started to hit. I know people have been investing in comics for decades, but everyone knows the big craze came in the very late 80's and early 90s. This is right when Venom hit the scene and exploded. The book jumped up to 3 digit status quickly because at that time it was easy for a book to jump up dramatically in price. Look at the early Valiants (mainly Rai 3&4, Magnus 12, and the early Harbingers) that jumped up to hundreds of dollars literally in a few months.

 

Venom and Sabretooth were all the rage during this period, and their intros skyrocketed over a two or three year stretch. Alpha Flight was already on a downward turn at this time. While the destruction of Valiant as a company, and the bad press that came with it caused those books to crash, there wasn't really any reason for Spidey 300 and Iron Fist 14 to drop. Those two characters were no longer the hot commodity, but shop owners and collectors paid big money for the books, and weren't willing to dump them at a loss. Wizard loves to promote the hot new book of the month because as long as prices go up collectors are happy and keep buying magazine. They rarely if ever mention books that drop out of favor. Falling prices means upset collectors, which could lead to fewer sales of the mag. Since Wizard's prices don't drop, people are reluctant to sell for less. Since sale prices are the same (although there may be much fewer sales) Overstreet doesn't drop prices because they just report sale prices. Now, the two characters really are 2nd tier characters, but the prices stand. There is tons of stuff (not so much the super high grade, but the mid grade stuff most people buy) that sells for way below book price, but the price guides went up so much so fast, they need a massive correction, and I think they are very reluctant to do it. If all of a sudden Wizard and Overstreet changed their prices to reflect true sale prices (including the internet sales) I would guess that a good number of investors would sell off their stuff, again lowering prices. The lower prices would turn off tons of collectors, who would either leave the hobby altogether, or just stop buying the guides. Any thoughts?

[Kevin Boyd]

Yes. What happened to the Smoking Man?

 

Kev