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How is a pedigree book validated?

Started by NoImSpartacus,

45 posts in this topic

NoImSpartacus

NoImSpartacus

Posted
Posted

My question is - How does a pedigree collection become validated as a pedigree collection? In other words, how is proof given that the person who bought the major collection is able to announce it as a pedigree. Is there some type of verification process?

What is keeping someone from buying 4000 high-grade books from someone and announcing it as a pedigree collection? Suppose a dentist has collected all his life and passes away at 98 years old. If his 4000 NM books go to auction are they considered a pedigree collection? OR, does someone have to find 4000 NM books in a barn and buy them from the original owners grandson who doesn’t have a clue that they are worth anything. What would be the parameters for it to be known as a pedigree and valid proof that it is? Would the past Nicholas Cage collection be known as a pedigree collection or just known as a collection?

I don’t have a clue, that is why I am asking. I collect heavily but have never bought a pedigree book and never really researched them. Thanks for any help.

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Bugaboo-migration

Bugaboo-migration

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This won't answer your question, but I'll add another one. It's my understanding that pedigree collections are only (or usually) classified as pedigrees if the books were bought off the rack as they came out, and stored so that they maintained a high degree of preservation. And, if somebody were to piece together a very high grade collection of older books today from various sources, then that would not be able to be classified as a pedigree.

 

I believe this is one of the reasons why Nicholas Cages books were simply known as a collection. He did not purchase these books off the newstand when they came out, but purchased them later for his collection.

 

Is this corrrect? confused.gif

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shadroch

shadroch

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A pedigree is declared by the dealer who is selling the original collection. There are no hard fast rules nor a governing body that grants pedigrees. If the quality of the books is superior, the pedigree catches onand a premium may become attached. Someone who puts together a collection of HG books such as Nick Cage or Billy Mumy can't get a pedigree as they are well known, but someone working in the shadows might be able to claim a pedigree if they were dishonest enough. Only the top pedigrees really bring big bucks and that is more for the quality of the books themselves than for the pedigrees. Exceptions would be books owned by artists and writers,such as the Stan Lee collection,which was supposed to include the books he used for reference, even though he repeatedly said in print that he wished he had held on to his books. When E. Nelson Bridwell died in the late 80s A public auction was held for his collection and even though they came with a COA, they went for way under guide. Dealers eventually gavce up selling them as pedigrees and moved them as best they could.

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Rip

Rip

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Posted

Quite honestly, we did it much of it by the honor system. I've owned many pedigree books and much of the time we simply just told the person that it was from the

"(insert name here)" collection. Sometimes it had documentation of the last few owners, sometimes it didn't. After a while many collectors get better feel for certain pedigrees by judging page quailty or by smell.

 

Stan Lee books would NOT be considered a pedigree.

They are called a PROVENANCE.

The Overstreet glossary sums it up well:

"When the owner of the collection is well known and is stated for the purpose of authenticating and documenting the history of the book A book from the Stan Lee or Forrest Ackerman collection would be an example of a value adding provenance."

 

However you could have a collection that is both a pedigree and a provenance such as the Gaines books.

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deathlok

deathlok

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Were the Stan Lee file copies kept at Stan's house for his own personal use? Or were they kept at Marvel? Did other writers/artists use them for reference also?

 

Anyone?

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sckao

sckao

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I think according to the account in Stan's book/biography, they were in his boxes of stuff at his house (from his Marvel days.) He also wrote from home a lot during the early days.. an early telecommuter.

 

You know what happens when you move from office to office or from house to house... invariably, you wind up with moving boxes filled with miscellaneous papers and stuff that you just keep stacked and unopened somewhere since you start generating new miscellaneous garbage at the new location almost immediately.

 

Someone offered to go through his stuff to look for comics and they ended up with a box of #1's that were sold at the first Stan Lee auction.

 

That's what I remember from the book. I may be wrong though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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sfilosa

sfilosa

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One of reasons (I believe) that makes pedigree books special, is that they have somewhat (for the most part) a uniform quality. Either they have dates stamps, or great page quality or great colors, etc. that make them unique.

 

If someone puts together a high grade collection, there is no guarantee that the books would exhibit the same quality. They could be high grade, but that doesn't mean they have great color or gloss. They might just not have any defects.

 

Regarding putting together a high grade collection, and trying to call it a pedigree, there's one problem with that. More than likely, to put together enough older books (i.e. GA or Early SA) to get a pedigree recognition, you would almost have to buy some pedigree book that exhibited the same quality. You couldn't buy books with date stamps or distribution markings unless most of the books had them. Just think it wouldn't make financial sense.

 

Having a small run of from the same pedigree creates a "sum is greater than the parts" collection, IMO.

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Mister_Comics

Mister_Comics

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I dont know how a PEDIGREE collection gets validated but I'll tell ya, I believe mine is one. Just about all hand picked off the rack at the store. Plus my dad collected comics before me and I inherited his collection. He groomed me in the comic collecting at a early age. Taught me all there was to know. Mostly don't manhandle the books and keep um out of the light as much as possible. He even helped me out with my own collection of comics by getting me file cabinets and hanging folders to store them in. Way before comic boxes and poly bags were around. Now most of the collection is in Mylars, but I'm still using file cabinets. I found out over the years that putting comics on the spine side loosely packed is the best way to keep comics stored for long periods. Most of what I send in for grading come back with high grades. I'll probably never sell my collection. Probably pass it on to my son. He's shown some interest in comics. He started a collection of his own books. New stuff thats out. But he's learning the way of the comic collector from me. Thats why I'm not in any hurry to find out if the collection is a pedigree or not. Maybe when he sells it years from now. If its still around. It seems that the pedigree collections have never done anything for the original owers. Its only benefited the finder and the people that buy the pedigree books. Thats another one of my quirky reasons why I'm not in a hurry to look into the pedigree thing. I just can't see someone else buying my collection and then getting all the credit for the find. Just seems soo wrong. I just love reading comics and collecting them.

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Aman619

Aman619

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pedigree collections have to have a high degree of quality condition and completeness, usually runs of titles, that were bought as they came out, not assembled after the fact at shows or mail order etc. They usually have distinguishing characteristics due to the storage ot by all having been bought at the same store for years, wher eth esore owner marked them all consistently.

 

As for what makes one single owner collection a pedigree and others not? Its the way they are received by the markeplace. If they are gobbled up and word spreads (especially within the dealer ranks), the pedigree sticks. But, it can also have to so with the specific Dealer(s) who found and promote the collection too!

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

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A pedigree is declared by the dealer who is selling the original collection. There are no hard fast rules nor a governing body that grants pedigrees. If the quality of the books is superior, the pedigree catches onand a premium may become attached.

 

I have to disagree with that. The concept of a pedigree does require that the books be from a single collection obtained first-run by the original collector. That is what MAKES it a pedigree.

 

Anyon can g out and buy a slew of high gradde copies from various sources. The proper term for that is Collection.

 

grin.gif

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greggy

greggy

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A pedigree is declared by the dealer who is selling the original collection. There are no hard fast rules nor a governing body that grants pedigrees. If the quality of the books is superior, the pedigree catches onand a premium may become attached.

 

I have to disagree with that. The concept of a pedigree does require that the books be from a single collection obtained first-run by the original collector. That is what MAKES it a pedigree.

 

Anyon can g out and buy a slew of high gradde copies from various sources. The proper term for that is Collection.

 

grin.gif

 

Bah...some of the pedigrees are junk! The Lost Valley pedigree isn't spectacular in terms of grade. Best thing about the books are the early Detectives.

 

However, CGC did give pedigree status to the new Vancouver collection. The grades are far superior but has no major keys. confused.gif

 

Link to the new Vancouver pedigree!

 

 

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greggy

greggy

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However, CGC did give pedigree status to the new Vancouver collection. The grades are far superior but has no major keys. confused.gif

 

Link to the new Vancouver pedigree!

What a joke! No keys + a bunch of 3rd tier titles! Where are the runs of Bats & Supes? confused.gif

 

Well...if you believe the seller, Steve Geppi doesn't think that it's a joke and have offered a substantial offer in the 6 figures. Personally, I think that no one other than Geppi would offer that much because the titles aren't the mainstream titles! insane.gif

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Aman619

Aman619

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Youve pointed out perhps the most important element in pedigree creation: CGC. CGC has single-handedly "taken over" the granting of Pedigree status. Nowadays, they (for reasons only they can explain) are the sole arbiters of pedigree status, because if they choose to put it on their labels ...it IS a pedigree from now on. And only the destruction of CGCs emphasis will ever remove each CGC-blessed pedigree's status.

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