What's the deal with Detective #33

[ciorac]

Thanks, I hope you aquire another one soon. I was thrilled to get this one, even though it has some amature CT, cleaning and tape. I sent classics incorporated an e-mail over a week ago about fixing the amature work and removing the unnecessary tape, but have not heard back yet.

 

He hasn't been home in two weeks. First he was at the NYC show and he is currently in SF at Wonder Con. He should get with you next week.

 

He will take good care of you.

[showcase4]

I am seriously considering investing in one of these #33's

 

The book itself is a GREAT pic.(keeping grade and resto out of it for a moment) The origin of one of THE greatest superheros ever....is only trumped by his 1st appearance, which in this case (Tec 27), is out of reach for many of us.

I love origin issues, and am presently looking for a high grade Tec 168 ( Joker origin )......but the 33 you seek is a real killer!

 

It is impossible to go wrong with the origin issue of Batman! I have seen MANY more Batman fans on the Boards than I have seen Superman fans......this suprised me at 1st, but now I am used to it.

Tec 33 is a real winner

[Filter81]

 

Not trying to start World War 3 here on the Boards, but if your objective is truly "investing", then you would not want a restored copy...

 

This is just my opinion here, but personally I believe that a restored NM- pre-robin Detective can absolutely be looked at as an investment book. Yes, the restoration hurts its desirability some. However, if you look at the overstreet guide, increases in the NM- price historically have significantly outpaced increases in all other grade ranges. Assuming an average yearly increase in the NM- price of 10%, in a little over 20 years from today, NM- guide value for this book will be $560,000+.

 

There's no way of knowing how restored books will be valued at that time, but even assuming 15% of unrestored guide, you are looking at an $85,000 comic. Now, I'm not saying this will definitely happen, but I do see a considerable amount of upside. (Perhaps even more upside than an unrestored 9.2 which would probably cost $100,000+ at the moment. Now a 'Tec 33 in unrestored 9.2 is a great book, but are you sure a lot of people will pay much more than $100k for it at some point in the future when the same amount of $$ could buy a nice Detective 27?)

 

Again, this is only my opinion. My intent isn't to disagree with anyone, just to present another side of the argument. But I personally own several high grade restored books that I consider to be investments. And in my few short years in this hobby I have done quite well for myself investing in high grade restored comics.

 

On a personal note, I used to own the comic being discussed here. And it was one I was very sad to see go. I agree with the previous posters, the 33 will likely never achieve the same multiples of guide as the 31 or 35 (partially because it is more expensive in the guide already and partially because of the supply). However, when I sold this book, I was in need of some very quick money. And as a result, I sold this book at a price that I would consider to be very cheap. As a result, the new owner of the book was then able to offer it for sale at a price that I would also consider cheap. At right around the same time, Metropolis somehow managed to come up with 4 or 5 really nice copies of this book all at once. (two of which are still available for sale on their site. And obviously they arent going to be asking top dollar when they have so many copies to sell) All of this together, I think gives the illusion of the book being easier to find and less desirable than it actually is.

 

This is just a guess here (I haven't been involved in this hobby long enough to say this with any certainty) but in a year or two when these three copies have been absorbed into peoples' personal collections and the prices paid have been forgotten, I think you will see the price paid for this book start to increase a bit to get a little more in line w/ 'Tec 31 and 35. (Similar to what happened when all those high grade Marvel Comics 1s came up for sale a while back. Even high grade copies were selling at huge discounts off guide. Now flashforward a little over a year later and even mid-grade copies seem to be selling at and slightly over guide)

 

Again, just my opinion here, but the trick to investing in comics is to look for the books that are currently undervalued with room to move up.

[ciorac]

Well said Adam.

[MCMiles]

Thanks for all of the input from everyone.

 

Just to be clear, I probably should not have said "invest in". I would be buying this book as a pure comic book fan. I have always loved these early 'Tecs and have finally reached a point in life where I could seriosly consider buying some. The fact is though, for me to spend that much I would like to feel secure in the fact that I could probably at least break even if needed.

[ciorac]

Thanks for all of the input from everyone.

 

Just to be clear, I probably should not have said "invest in". I would be buying this book as a pure comic book fan. I have always loved these early 'Tecs and have finally reached a point in life where I could seriosly consider buying some. The fact is though, for me to spend that much I would like to feel secure in the fact that I could probably at least break even if needed.

 

In that case, buy it!!!

[bluechip]

 

Not trying to start World War 3 here on the Boards, but if your objective is truly "investing", then you would not want a restored copy...

 

This is just my opinion here, but personally I believe that a restored NM- pre-robin Detective can absolutely be looked at as an investment book. Yes, the restoration hurts its desirability some. However, if you look at the overstreet guide, increases in the NM- price historically have significantly outpaced increases in all other grade ranges. Assuming an average yearly increase in the NM- price of 10%, in a little over 20 years from today, NM- guide value for this book will be $560,000+.

 

There's no way of knowing how restored books will be valued at that time, but even assuming 15% of unrestored guide, you are looking at an $85,000 comic. Now, I'm not saying this will definitely happen, but I do see a considerable amount of upside. (Perhaps even more upside than an unrestored 9.2 which would probably cost $100,000+ at the moment. Now a 'Tec 33 in unrestored 9.2 is a great book, but are you sure a lot of people will pay much more than $100k for it at some point in the future when the same amount of $$ could buy a nice Detective 27?)

 

Again, this is only my opinion. My intent isn't to disagree with anyone, just to present another side of the argument. But I personally own several high grade restored books that I consider to be investments. And in my few short years in this hobby I have done quite well for myself investing in high grade restored comics.

 

On a personal note, I used to own the comic being discussed here. And it was one I was very sad to see go. I agree with the previous posters, the 33 will likely never achieve the same multiples of guide as the 31 or 35 (partially because it is more expensive in the guide already and partially because of the supply). However, when I sold this book, I was in need of some very quick money. And as a result, I sold this book at a price that I would consider to be very cheap. As a result, the new owner of the book was then able to offer it for sale at a price that I would also consider cheap. At right around the same time, Metropolis somehow managed to come up with 4 or 5 really nice copies of this book all at once. (two of which are still available for sale on their site. And obviously they arent going to be asking top dollar when they have so many copies to sell) All of this together, I think gives the illusion of the book being easier to find and less desirable than it actually is.

 

This is just a guess here (I haven't been involved in this hobby long enough to say this with any certainty) but in a year or two when these three copies have been absorbed into peoples' personal collections and the prices paid have been forgotten, I think you will see the price paid for this book start to increase a bit to get a little more in line w/ 'Tec 31 and 35. (Similar to what happened when all those high grade Marvel Comics 1s came up for sale a while back. Even high grade copies were selling at huge discounts off guide. Now flashforward a little over a year later and even mid-grade copies seem to be selling at and slightly over guide)

 

Again, just my opinion here, but the trick to investing in comics is to look for the books that are currently undervalued with room to move up.

 

 

Well said.

 

There is no such thing as a pre 1940 detective or action that is not a worthwhile investment.

 

Some books are worth money only if high grade andor unrestored. And some are just so significant they are an investment in any collectible condition.

[EJR]

Wonder how much Metro wants for their Detective #33 CGC 4.5? That is a decent looking 4.5 with nice ow/w pages! Another great book to get if you can't afford a Detective #33 would be Batman #47 another great Batman origin book which is selling for way over Overstreet guide!

[jkrk]

Thanks for all of the input from everyone.

 

Just to be clear, I probably should not have said "invest in". I would be buying this book as a pure comic book fan. I have always loved these early 'Tecs and have finally reached a point in life where I could seriosly consider buying some. The fact is though, for me to spend that much I would like to feel secure in the fact that I could probably at least break even if needed.

 

 

Removing the word "invest" is probably a good way to start. Will comics prove to be a good investment looking foward with the younger generation spending their free time on the computer, etc? Will buying books in a "red hot comic market (as is being indicated in a number of posts on this board)" and holding prove to be a good investment? Perhaps buying at a time that liquidity in the economy dies up might prove to be a better investment approach? But that isn't the crux of the question.

 

Why is Tec 33 priced weker than some of the other Pre Robin Tec's? I concur with the thesis that the book is easier to obtain than some of the other tec's.

 

Would I buy a Tec 33 in vg+ or a Tec 33 in 9.2 (MR) at the same price? I would opt for the restored copy. I would equate the 9.2 to a unrestored VG/F to F-..

 

I valued the unrestored Fine at $11,000, Therefore I was only interested in the restored Tec for $9200-10,000. If I remember the bid on the restored copy was my highest posted bid from a previous CL auction?

 

The assumptions are my opinions. Others may believe the books are worth more or less to them. The market is constantly moving so a pickup of interest by one or more individuals changes the latest pricings and may make my observations obsolete.

[1koko]

Always interested to see people's views on comic valuations.

 

I think a fine Tec #33 in fine unrestored is going to go for greater than $11k. Mine is on its way and will be posted this week.

 

When talking about rarety for #31, #33 and #35 we are of course being relative. All of these are rare when compared to Silver age keys.

 

#35 is the hot comic at the moment so I have seen more of these on the market than #33s or #31s. #33 seems less scarce because Metro have had a number listed.

 

I think restored Pre Robin Tecs will always have value and liquidity as unrestored mid grade upwards are difficult to attain.

 

I have restored Tec #28s and #31s in VF condition that I am proud to own and will stay in my collection even if I find fine or better unrestored copies.

[Dark Knight]

Here is my breakdown on unrestored Tec #33 prices on what I would pay:

 

3.0 = $5800-6200

3.5 = $6800-7000

4.0 = $7500-$8000

4.5 = $9000-9700

5.0 = $10200-10700

5.5 = $11200-11600

6.0 = $12200-12700

6.5 = $13300-13800

7.0 = $15000-16000

7.5 = $19500-22000

8.0 = $29000-31000

8.5 = $35000-40000

9.0 = $50000-70000

9.2 = $80000...

 

I'll stop there..

[showcase4]

Thanks for all of the input from everyone.

 

Just to be clear, I probably should not have said "invest in". I would be buying this book as a pure comic book fan. I have always loved these early 'Tecs and have finally reached a point in life where I could seriosly consider buying some. The fact is though, for me to spend that much I would like to feel secure in the fact that I could probably at least break even if needed.

 

thank you for your clarification........My previous comments were strictly based on the "invest" word..........a pure comic book fan has a completely different agenda then an investor looking for a certain return, similar to picking stocks in the stock market........if you are a comic book fan, buy the restored! It's a bazillion times less expensive then the same grade unrestored, and you can actually read and enjoy it because you are not trying to be so careful with it so as not to cause a .0000000005 drop in its techinical grade due to exhaling on it when you are breathing.

 

If you sell in the future, you will most certainly get your $$ back, and most likely some extra also, depending on how long you keep it. Since you are focusing on a key pre-Robin Tec ( high demand - very liquid ), there will ALWAYS be a market for it virtually regardless of resto or condition.

 

One of my favorite sayings is " it's not timing ths market, it's time in the market that matters"

You could buy low grade extensively restored books like Tec 33 in 2007, and if you sell them in 2017 you may be amazed at how well you could do....and you had years of enjoyable reading in the mean time!

 

since you are buying as a comic book fan, restored books are great

[showcase4]

(e.g. it's apparently not enough to say Obadiah Oldbuck is worth a lot; it has to be implied that Superman should be worth less)

 

One factor in sales could be that people who disagree about the value of your books give you the courtesy of staying mostly silent, but you do not seem to return the favor.

 

OK Bob,

I'm going to call you on this one......this is getting really old really quick. I don't know why you constantly try to make me look bad to my on-line GA friends , but I was here 1st ( The Boards ). I publically challenge you to find a single time that I implied or said that "Superman should be worth less", and when you can't find it, because it does not exist, I believe a public apology is warranted.

 

Do not mess with the bull Bluechip ....you'll get the horns

[ciorac]

Here is my breakdown on unrestored Tec #33 prices on what I would pay:

 

3.0 = $5800-6200

3.5 = $6800-7000

4.0 = $7500-$8000

4.5 = $9000-9700

5.0 = $10200-10700

5.5 = $11200-11600

6.0 = $12200-12700

6.5 = $13300-13800

7.0 = $15000-16000

7.5 = $19500-22000

8.0 = $29000-31000

8.5 = $35000-40000

9.0 = $50000-70000

9.2 = $80000...

 

I'll stop there..

 

good looking numbers DK.

 

I have a buddy out in CA who has been looking for the big 4 in VF or better unrestored for 15 years without success, with the caveat that he wants to pay somewhere near guide for them. I just don't think it will happen, unless he gets extremely lucky.

 

Even over guide, those books just don't pop up in high grade too often.

 

A quick search of Heritage yields the following highest grades sold:

 

29 - 5.0

31 - 5.5

33 - 9.0(allentown) (sold for 43K five years ago!) (since 2005 only a 5.5 has sold)

35 - 5.5

 

GPA doesn't reveal anything further.

 

Even pedigrees may not help you. The Twilight 33 is restored, as is the Larson 35.

 

Lastly the census on CGC shows the following at 8.0 or above blue:

 

29 - 2

31 - 1

33 - 2

35 - 1

 

So his quest is mostly folly I'm afraid.

[bluechip]

(e.g. it's apparently not enough to say Obadiah Oldbuck is worth a lot; it has to be implied that Superman should be worth less)

 

One factor in sales could be that people who disagree about the value of your books give you the courtesy of staying mostly silent, but you do not seem to return the favor.

 

OK Bob,

I'm going to call you on this one......this is getting really old really quick. I don't know why you constantly try to make me look bad to my on-line GA friends , but I was here 1st ( The Boards ). I publically challenge you to find a single time that I implied or said that "Superman should be worth less", and when you can't find it, because it does not exist, I believe a public apology is warranted.

 

Do not mess with the bull Bluechip ....you'll get the horns

 

Geez, and I was so careful to say "implied," which was clearly the case. I recall this exact conversation was had on this board a while back with others saying you had made that implication, me echoing it, and you denying it and demanding an apology -- followed by several other people doing the research through your posts and coming back with your own quotes -- first asking the question whether OO should be worth more and then clipping and pasting your own words saying that in other fields the older items and first books are "worth more." Have you forgotten, are are you figuring that if I am not willing to spend the time doing the same thing all over again? Or do you simply dispute it despite what others (not just me) picked up on. It is not a cardinal sin or a crime to bash the value of other people's books, but it does, as you say, get old. And you should expect that people who have, for instance a Superman and not an Obadiah, may not be happy about boosting Obie at the expense of Supie. Where's the big surprise in all that? You wanna boost something you own, fine, but just try to do it without so often saying that what somebody else has is worth less.

[showcase4]

Hey Bluechip...............

let's move forward.

[batman_fan]

Here is my breakdown on unrestored Tec #33 prices on what I would pay:

 

3.0 = $5800-6200

3.5 = $6800-7000

4.0 = $7500-$8000

4.5 = $9000-9700

5.0 = $10200-10700

5.5 = $11200-11600

6.0 = $12200-12700

6.5 = $13300-13800

7.0 = $15000-16000

7.5 = $19500-22000

8.0 = $29000-31000

8.5 = $35000-40000

9.0 = $50000-70000

9.2 = $80000...

 

I'll stop there..

 

my blue 5.5 sold for 13k in 2002

[G.A.tor]

Here is my breakdown on unrestored Tec #33 prices on what I would pay:

 

3.0 = $5800-6200

3.5 = $6800-7000

4.0 = $7500-$8000

4.5 = $9000-9700

5.0 = $10200-10700

5.5 = $11200-11600

6.0 = $12200-12700

6.5 = $13300-13800

7.0 = $15000-16000

7.5 = $19500-22000

8.0 = $29000-31000

8.5 = $35000-40000

9.0 = $50000-70000

9.2 = $80000...

 

I'll stop there..

hello all...

not bad pricing, but maybe a little low...a blue 4.5 sold on clink last year for $11,500, and I bought one for just under 10K...metro has one now at $11K...I know metro just sold a 5.5 for over $13K?....

again, part of it is the seemingly availability of the book, but that is because 31 and 35 are getting "keyed' in on right now...33 will have its turn, and these will look like bargain prices

rick

[Comicdey]

Here is my breakdown on unrestored Tec #33 prices on what I would pay:

 

3.0 = $5800-6200

3.5 = $6800-7000

4.0 = $7500-$8000

4.5 = $9000-9700

5.0 = $10200-10700

5.5 = $11200-11600

6.0 = $12200-12700

6.5 = $13300-13800

7.0 = $15000-16000

7.5 = $19500-22000

8.0 = $29000-31000

8.5 = $35000-40000

9.0 = $50000-70000

9.2 = $80000...

 

I'll stop there..

hello all...

not bad pricing, but maybe a little low...a blue 4.5 sold on clink last year for $11,500, and I bought one for just under 10K...metro has one now at $11K...I know metro just sold a 5.5 for over $13K?....

again, part of it is the seemingly availability of the book, but that is because 31 and 35 are getting "keyed' in on right now...33 will have its turn, and these will look like bargain prices

rick

 

but as a guideline...if you could get them for these ranges....you're probably doing pretty well.

[Dark Knight]

Here is my breakdown on unrestored Tec #33 prices on what I would pay:

 

3.0 = $5800-6200

3.5 = $6800-7000

4.0 = $7500-$8000

4.5 = $9000-9700

5.0 = $10200-10700

5.5 = $11200-11600

6.0 = $12200-12700

6.5 = $13300-13800

7.0 = $15000-16000

7.5 = $19500-22000

8.0 = $29000-31000

8.5 = $35000-40000

9.0 = $50000-70000

9.2 = $80000...

 

I'll stop there..

hello all...

not bad pricing, but maybe a little low...a blue 4.5 sold on clink last year for $11,500, and I bought one for just under 10K...metro has one now at $11K...I know metro just sold a 5.5 for over $13K?....

again, part of it is the seemingly availability of the book, but that is because 31 and 35 are getting "keyed' in on right now...33 will have its turn, and these will look like bargain prices

rick

 

The prices I quoted are just ball-park ranges. Some sales could be higher, some lower. But those are the kind of prices I would pay for each grade or close to it. The market on Tec 33 seems to be leveled off as of late since yeah the main focus is on 31 and 35, which prices have sky-rocketed tremendously. Maybe in the future Tec 33 will have its place again among the top priced pre-robin tecs. How I priced these was based on the Crippen 4.0 sale, which fetched $7800 (OSPG book value). Of course collectors (like myself) would pay more for the book so they can have it in their collection. I am also aware that a CGC 4.5 sold on C-link for $11500, which I think is a little on the high end IMO.