WHO KNOW'S MORE ABOUT RESTORATION....CGC..OR THE DEALER THAT SOLD THE BOOK???

[MYBOSS1-migration]

From time to time I will hear a story about a dealer that has sold a client a book raw and "unrestored" , only to end up being graded purple label restored when the client has submitted the book to C.G.C.

 

Most of the time a reputable dealer will offer a refund and take the book back to preserve Goodwill, and their reputation. On the other hand their are dealers that will claim to know more than C.G.C. about such matters and will deny their clients wishes even though the dealer represented the book as "unrestored".

 

QUESTION: Who know's more here, the dealer, C.G.C......Who is more qualified to make this determination...Who is likely to be more objective of the two...

 

Please give your opinion...Thanks

[FFB]

From time to time I will hear a story about a dealer that has sold a client a book raw and "unrestored" , only to end up being graded purple label restored when the client has submitted the book to C.G.C.

 

Most of the time a reputable dealer will offer a refund and take the book back to preserve Goodwill, and their reputation. On the other hand their are dealers that will claim to know more than C.G.C. about such matters and will deny their clients wishes even though the dealer represented the book as "unrestored".

 

QUESTION: Who know's more here, the dealer, C.G.C......Who is more qualified to make this determination...Who is likely to be more objective of the two...

 

Please give your opinion...Thanks

 

I don't think anyone else is as good at detecting restoration as Chris Friesen is. I doubt that there are many dealers, if any, who are as good at detecting restoration as any of the primary graders at CGC. This is not to say they are infallible at detecting restoration, but then again, who is?

 

So this is a really easy question IMO. Sounds like a good dealer to avoid if they won't refund your money for an "unrestored" book that wound up in a PLOD.

[batman_fan]

I would say there are some dealers out there that are as good as CGC for restoration detection.

[showcase4]

CGC is probably better at detecting restoration.

CGC is ALWAYS better at disclosing restoration.

 

99% of the problems collectors face has to do with disclosure....not the restoration itself

[sacentaur]

99% of the problems collectors face has to do with disclosure....not the restoration itself

 

A NOD and a round of for you, sir!

 

STEVE

[seank]

CGC is probably better at detecting restoration.

CGC is ALWAYS better at disclosing restoration.

 

99% of the problems collectors face has to do with disclosure....not the restoration itself

 

My sentiments exactly.

[Ze-man]

. On the other hand their are dealers that will claim to know more than C.G.C. about such matters and will deny their clients wishes even though the dealer represented the book as "unrestored".

 

 

I think it is well within the rights of any dealer to offer their opinion regarding the book they are selling. CGC is not the end all authority, they are just really good at it.

 

But since the dealer is the one who stands to gain from selling the book, they of course might see the book through green colored glasses and miss things either accidentally, or on purpose. Especially when they are not offering a refund if a book is labeled restored after the sale.

 

So as mentioned already, CGC would be the voice to listen too... not the dealer who is trying to pass the buck. While CGC might not label some procedures, what some believe to be restoration. They detect known, visible restoration as well as anybody.

 

Ze-

[FFB]

I would say there are some dealers out there that are as good as CGC for restoration detection.

 

Really? Who?

[ciorac]

I would say there are some dealers out there that are as good as CGC for restoration detection.

 

Really? Who?

 

Matt Nelson

[FFB]

I would say there are some dealers out there that are as good as CGC for restoration detection.

 

Really? Who?

 

Matt Nelson

 

Matt Nelson is probably the best at it of all of the dealers, but I think even he would tell you that Friesen is a bit better at detecting really well hidden restoration (really, it's trimming I'm talking about here, since I don't think either one of them would miss color touch, glue, or more obvious work) than he is.

[MrBedrock]

What about when the opposite happens? A dealer sells you a book that in his opinion is cleaned. But when you send it to CGC it comes back with a blue label. Do you disclose the dealer's opinion after CGC has cleared it?

[MrBedrock]

I know the above post may sound frivilous but I will give a true example. I bought a book about ten years ago that, while it wasn't sold to me a such, I am pretty sure is the Recil Macon copy. It is common knowledge that most, if not all, Macons were sent to Susan C. to be flattened to some degree. The way the books were originally stored caused many to have a wave to them. Some books had more extensive pressing then others. Some were disassembled and some were cleaned, some were not. I don't believe there is any list that says what was done to what book. As I have been getting my collection graded I have been getting some of them pre-evaluated for resto. I thought I was pretty good at detecting it, but since CGC I realize I am marginal at best! (If I think a book is restored, I would rather not incur the CGC expense. I pull these from my collection and sell them through the shops WITH FULL DISCLOSURE) I never told the evaluater my suspicions that this was the Macon copy. In his opinion the book looked as if it may have been disassembled and cleaned. This fit the theory that it was the Macon . But, since he wasn't 100% I decided to send it in to CGC and see what they had to say. Again, while I am 95% certain it is the Macon I can't (honestly) try to get that pedigree designation on the submission. Viola....blue label. If I sell this book what is my ethical duty to the comic book community? (I know what I will do. I am wondering what you would do.)

[sacentaur]

If I sell this book what is my ethical duty to the comic book community? (I know what I will do. I am wondering what you would do.)

 

I know exactly what you should do, Richard - sell the book to me next week at Wizard L.A. and we'll all be happy!

 

STEVE

[MrBedrock]

If I sell this book what is my ethical duty to the comic book community? (I know what I will do. I am wondering what you would do.)

 

I know exactly what you should do, Richard - sell the book to me next week at Wizard L.A. and we'll all be happy!

 

STEVE

Did I mention the dark brown, heavily brittle pages?.........Just kidding!

[mr.schomburg]

I would say there are some dealers out there that are as good as CGC for restoration detection.

 

Really? Who?

 

Me!

[agro23]

What about when the opposite happens? A dealer sells you a book that in his opinion is cleaned. But when you send it to CGC it comes back with a blue label. Do you disclose the dealer's opinion after CGC has cleared it?

I think ethically you should disclose. Always. I'm not a dealer but my rule of thumb is this: If I even ask myself 'should I disclose this?' I know I should disclose it.

[chaos_ad-migration]

CGC is ALWAYS better at disclosing restoration.

 

Unless you consider pressing, dry cleaning, staple manipulation (tucking loose wraps under a staple, etc), tape removal, a drop of glue for pre-1950 comics, and disassembly of a comic to be restoration. The OP might not be aware of these loopholes...

[FFB]

CGC is ALWAYS better at disclosing restoration.

 

Unless you consider pressing, dry cleaning, staple manipulation (tucking loose wraps under a staple, etc), tape removal, a drop of glue for pre-1950 comics, and disassembly of a comic to be restoration. The OP might not be aware of these loopholes...

 

CGC always discloses a drop of glue or a very minor amount of color touch on a pre-1950s comic. They just don't use the purple label to do it. The same goes with tape stains, which are generally mentioned on the label (unless they changed that practice). They don't call tape removal restoration unless they can tell that the book was taken apart and/or treated with a solvent to remove the tape carrier and adhesive, because for all they know, the tape adhesive just degraded over time and the carrier layer fell off.

 

On the other stuff, though, you are correct that they don't disclose it, but I believe that has more to do with not being able consistently to detect pressing, dry cleaning, and retucking a wrap under a staple. And I question whether any other dealer could detect those things either unless that dealer did the work himself.

[sacentaur]

Here's an example of a Recil Macon book sold to me by MrBedrock after the untimely passing of a dedicated collector and a good friend. This scan just doesn't do the book justice - it is simply gorgeous:

 

 

Was the possibility that the book may have been pressed made known to me at the time of sale? YES

 

Was the price reasonable and fair, all things considered? YES

 

Years later, am I happy with the book and the deal? YOU BET I AM!

 

Richard knows me well enough to understand that the best way to sell me a book is to provide Full Disclosure so that I can make an informed decision. CGC is very good in this regard (i.e., resto checks) but that doesn't mean that I won't by raw books from people I trust.

 

I have never - never - had a problem or concern with any book that MrBedrock has traded/sold me, which stands in stark contrast to many of the Big Name dealers out there (you know who are) who constantly try to slip one by you to meet their uncontrollable urge for short-term greed (versus long-term relationships).

 

As far as I'm concernd, MrBedrock...rocks!

 

STEVE

[FFB]

Those colors are unbelievable.