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WHO KNOW'S MORE ABOUT RESTORATION....CGC..OR THE DEALER THAT SOLD THE BOOK???

Started by MYBOSS1-migration,

55 posts in this topic

mr.schomburg

mr.schomburg

Posted
Posted
Here's an example of a Recil Macon book sold to me by MrBedrock after the untimely passing of a dedicated collector and a good friend. This scan just doesn't do the book justice - it is simply gorgeous:

 

Cap14Crop.jpg

 

Was the possibility that the book may have been pressed made known to me at the time of sale? YES

 

Was the price reasonable and fair, all things considered? YES

 

Years later, am I happy with the book and the deal? YOU BET I AM!

 

Richard knows me well enough to understand that the best way to sell me a book is to provide Full Disclosure so that I can make an informed decision. CGC is very good in this regard (i.e., resto checks) but that doesn't mean that I won't by raw books from people I trust.

 

 

I have never - never - had a problem or concern with any book that MrBedrock has traded/sold me, which stands in stark contrast to many of the Big Name dealers out there (you know who are) who constantly try to slip one by you to meet their uncontrollable urge for short-term greed (versus long-term relationships).

 

As far as I'm concernd, MrBedrock...rocks! thumbsup2.gifthumbsup2.gif

 

STEVE

 

Steve my adress is ........? I will pay a much higher premium than offered on the Planet 10, at least double! What do you say...help a brother out!

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Straw-Man

Straw-Man

Posted
Posted
I would say there are some dealers out there that are as good as CGC for restoration detection.

 

Really? Who?

 

Matt Nelson

 

Matt Nelson is probably the best at it of all of the dealers, but I think even he would tell you that Friesen is a bit better at detecting really well hidden restoration (really, it's trimming I'm talking about here, since I don't think either one of them would miss color touch, glue, or more obvious work) than he is.

 

if you heard him say that it would be false modesty. he thinks he's the best of them all, and i vote for him as well.

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Straw-Man

Straw-Man

Posted
Posted
If I sell this book what is my ethical duty to the comic book community? (I know what I will do. I am wondering what you would do.)

 

I know exactly what you should do, Richard - sell the book to me next week at Wizard L.A. and we'll all be happy! devil.gif

 

STEVE

Did I mention the dark brown, heavily brittle pages?.........Just kidding!

 

you didn't need to mention them; just saying it was coming from you said it all.

 

reading copies, huh?

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MrBedrock

MrBedrock

Posted
Posted
Here's an example of a Recil Macon book sold to me by MrBedrock after the untimely passing of a dedicated collector and a good friend. This scan just doesn't do the book justice - it is simply gorgeous:

 

Cap14Crop.jpg

 

Was the possibility that the book may have been pressed made known to me at the time of sale? YES

 

Was the price reasonable and fair, all things considered? YES

 

Years later, am I happy with the book and the deal? YOU BET I AM!

 

Richard knows me well enough to understand that the best way to sell me a book is to provide Full Disclosure so that I can make an informed decision. CGC is very good in this regard (i.e., resto checks) but that doesn't mean that I won't by raw books from people I trust.

 

I have never - never - had a problem or concern with any book that MrBedrock has traded/sold me, which stands in stark contrast to many of the Big Name dealers out there (you know who are) who constantly try to slip one by you to meet their uncontrollable urge for short-term greed (versus long-term relationships).

 

As far as I'm concernd, MrBedrock...rocks! thumbsup2.gifthumbsup2.gif

 

STEVE

 

In the spirit of full disclosure I must confess that sacentaur and MrBedrock are one and the same. I can't go on tooting my own horn like this. I will refrain from doing it in the future!

Actually...thanks for the kind words Steve. Always happy to put a book in your collection cause I know I can always visit!

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MrBedrock

MrBedrock

Posted
Posted

 

you didn't need to mention them; just saying it was coming from you said it all.

 

reading copies, huh?

 

Yep, reading copies. My Man, even at that I might have been overstating.

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garthgantu

garthgantu

Posted
Posted
I decided to send it in to CGC and see what they had to say. Again, while I am 95% certain it is the Macon I can't (honestly) try to get that pedigree designation on the submission. Viola....blue label. If I sell this book what is my ethical duty to the comic book community? (I know what I will do. I am wondering what you would do.)

 

How 'bout including in the auction description (assuming you sell it via auction) the following disclaimer: "CGC does not consider cleaning, pressing or disassembly of a book to be restoration, and the pre-screening process at that company determined a likelihood that at two of those three processes had probably been performed on the book. I know some people in the hobby consider one or more of these processes to be forms of restoration, so I'm disclosing what information I have about the comic to address any concerns in advance."

 

??

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ciorac

ciorac

Posted
Posted
I decided to send it in to CGC and see what they had to say. Again, while I am 95% certain it is the Macon I can't (honestly) try to get that pedigree designation on the submission. Viola....blue label. If I sell this book what is my ethical duty to the comic book community? (I know what I will do. I am wondering what you would do.)

 

How 'bout including in the auction description (assuming you sell it via auction) the following disclaimer: "CGC does not consider cleaning, pressing or disassembly of a book to be restoration, and the pre-screening process at that company determined a likelihood that at two of those three processes had probably been performed on the book. I know some people in the hobby consider one or more of these processes to be forms of restoration, so I'm disclosing what information I have about the comic to address any concerns in advance."

 

??

 

sounds good garth

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MrBedrock

MrBedrock

Posted
Posted
I decided to send it in to CGC and see what they had to say. Again, while I am 95% certain it is the Macon I can't (honestly) try to get that pedigree designation on the submission. Viola....blue label. If I sell this book what is my ethical duty to the comic book community? (I know what I will do. I am wondering what you would do.)

 

How 'bout including in the auction description (assuming you sell it via auction) the following disclaimer: "CGC does not consider cleaning, pressing or disassembly of a book to be restoration, and the pre-screening process at that company determined a likelihood that at two of those three processes had probably been performed on the book. I know some people in the hobby consider one or more of these processes to be forms of restoration, so I'm disclosing what information I have about the comic to address any concerns in advance."

 

??

 

sounds good garth

 

Easy, too the point, and lets the buyer decide.

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FFB

FFB

Posted
Posted
I would say there are some dealers out there that are as good as CGC for restoration detection.

 

Really? Who?

 

Matt Nelson

 

Matt Nelson is probably the best at it of all of the dealers, but I think even he would tell you that Friesen is a bit better at detecting really well hidden restoration (really, it's trimming I'm talking about here, since I don't think either one of them would miss color touch, glue, or more obvious work) than he is.

 

if you heard him say that it would be false modesty. he thinks he's the best of them all, and i vote for him as well.

 

He did miss trimming on one of my books that I had sent for a resto check once (it was trimmed by the guy who trimmed the infamous Batman #11 that CGC once missed). Of course, when I bought the book on ebay from someone else, it was in a PGX (then CGG) blue holder. PGX also missed the trimming. But by the time I submitted by book to CGC, Friesen had learned how to detect the trimming style and caught the trim job on the book -- and then boy was I pisssed at how much money I had spent on it!!! 27_laughing.gif

 

asm10plodsmall.jpg

 

This is not to speak ill of Matt's resto check abilities. I really like Matt Nelson and I trust his resto check implicitly. I think that it is an infinitesimally small degree of difference that we're talking about here. I just think that Friesen tends to spend all of his time looking at restoration done by all of the professionals in the hobby, so he is maybe slightly more accustomed to looking at restoration done in many different ways. I would certainly trust Matt Nelson's resto check on any book I'd have him look at. But Matt did say that when it comes to trimming especially, CGC is really good at spotting it. As I said before, I doubt Matt would miss something like disassembly or cleaning, and certainly not color touch or tear seals/reinforcement. And, of course, when you're getting a resto check from Matt Nelson, he can tell you that he suspects a book "might" have been disassembled, cleaned, or whatever even if he's not sure, whereas CGC will just put the book into a blue label slab if they aren't sure. So in that way, I do prefer Matt's resto check.

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FFB

FFB

Posted
Posted
I decided to send it in to CGC and see what they had to say. Again, while I am 95% certain it is the Macon I can't (honestly) try to get that pedigree designation on the submission. Viola....blue label. If I sell this book what is my ethical duty to the comic book community? (I know what I will do. I am wondering what you would do.)

 

How 'bout including in the auction description (assuming you sell it via auction) the following disclaimer: "CGC does not consider cleaning, pressing or disassembly of a book to be restoration, and the pre-screening process at that company determined a likelihood that at two of those three processes had probably been performed on the book. I know some people in the hobby consider one or more of these processes to be forms of restoration, so I'm disclosing what information I have about the comic to address any concerns in advance."

 

??

 

Maybe I read Richard's original message the wrong way, but I thought he was saying that the original pre-evaluator who thought the book might have been disassembled and cleaned was not CGC, but someone else?

 

That being the case, if I had the book graded by CGC and it came back clean, I probably would just sell it as a blue label unless the pre-evaluator had something specific he could point to that indicated the book might have been disassembled and cleaned (as opposed to just having a hunch). And in that case, I would have CGC re-check it with that information in mind. But if it still came back blue label, I would not mention the "hunch" that I got from someone else.

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MrBedrock

MrBedrock

Posted
Posted
I decided to send it in to CGC and see what they had to say. Again, while I am 95% certain it is the Macon I can't (honestly) try to get that pedigree designation on the submission. Viola....blue label. If I sell this book what is my ethical duty to the comic book community? (I know what I will do. I am wondering what you would do.)

 

How 'bout including in the auction description (assuming you sell it via auction) the following disclaimer: "CGC does not consider cleaning, pressing or disassembly of a book to be restoration, and the pre-screening process at that company determined a likelihood that at two of those three processes had probably been performed on the book. I know some people in the hobby consider one or more of these processes to be forms of restoration, so I'm disclosing what information I have about the comic to address any concerns in advance."

 

??

 

Maybe I read Richard's original message the wrong way, but I thought he was saying that the original pre-evaluator who thought the book might have been disassembled and cleaned was not CGC, but someone else?

 

That being the case, if I had the book graded by CGC and it came back clean, I probably would just sell it as a blue label unless the pre-evaluator had something specific he could point to that indicated the book might have been disassembled and cleaned (as opposed to just having a hunch). And in that case, I would have CGC re-check it with that information in mind. But if it still came back blue label, I would not mention the "hunch" that I got from someone else.

 

You read it right. The pre-screen was done by someone other than CGC. There was never anything specific, just minor things that he said could be construed by CGC as signs of disassembly and cleaning.

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FFB

FFB

Posted
Posted
I decided to send it in to CGC and see what they had to say. Again, while I am 95% certain it is the Macon I can't (honestly) try to get that pedigree designation on the submission. Viola....blue label. If I sell this book what is my ethical duty to the comic book community? (I know what I will do. I am wondering what you would do.)

 

How 'bout including in the auction description (assuming you sell it via auction) the following disclaimer: "CGC does not consider cleaning, pressing or disassembly of a book to be restoration, and the pre-screening process at that company determined a likelihood that at two of those three processes had probably been performed on the book. I know some people in the hobby consider one or more of these processes to be forms of restoration, so I'm disclosing what information I have about the comic to address any concerns in advance."

 

??

 

Maybe I read Richard's original message the wrong way, but I thought he was saying that the original pre-evaluator who thought the book might have been disassembled and cleaned was not CGC, but someone else?

 

That being the case, if I had the book graded by CGC and it came back clean, I probably would just sell it as a blue label unless the pre-evaluator had something specific he could point to that indicated the book might have been disassembled and cleaned (as opposed to just having a hunch). And in that case, I would have CGC re-check it with that information in mind. But if it still came back blue label, I would not mention the "hunch" that I got from someone else.

 

You read it right. The pre-screen was done by someone other than CGC. There was never anything specific, just minor things that he said could be construed by CGC as signs of disassembly and cleaning.

 

Out of curiosity - do you remember what the things were that he saw?

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FFB

FFB

Posted
Posted
He did miss trimming on one of my books that I had sent for a resto check once (it was trimmed by the guy who trimmed the infamous Batman #11 that CGC once missed).

 

And that person's name is?

 

I didn't get a name. confused-smiley-013.gif

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tth2

tth2

Posted
Posted
I would say there are some dealers out there that are as good as CGC for restoration detection.

 

Really? Who?

 

Matt Nelson

 

Matt Nelson is probably the best at it of all of the dealers, but I think even he would tell you that Friesen is a bit better at detecting really well hidden restoration (really, it's trimming I'm talking about here, since I don't think either one of them would miss color touch, glue, or more obvious work) than he is.

What about Mark Wilson?

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tth2

tth2

Posted
Posted
I decided to send it in to CGC and see what they had to say. Again, while I am 95% certain it is the Macon I can't (honestly) try to get that pedigree designation on the submission. Viola....blue label. If I sell this book what is my ethical duty to the comic book community? (I know what I will do. I am wondering what you would do.)

 

How 'bout including in the auction description (assuming you sell it via auction) the following disclaimer: "CGC does not consider cleaning, pressing or disassembly of a book to be restoration, and the pre-screening process at that company determined a likelihood that at two of those three processes had probably been performed on the book. I know some people in the hobby consider one or more of these processes to be forms of restoration, so I'm disclosing what information I have about the comic to address any concerns in advance."

 

??

 

Maybe I read Richard's original message the wrong way, but I thought he was saying that the original pre-evaluator who thought the book might have been disassembled and cleaned was not CGC, but someone else?

 

That being the case, if I had the book graded by CGC and it came back clean, I probably would just sell it as a blue label unless the pre-evaluator had something specific he could point to that indicated the book might have been disassembled and cleaned (as opposed to just having a hunch). And in that case, I would have CGC re-check it with that information in mind. But if it still came back blue label, I would not mention the "hunch" that I got from someone else.

 

You read it right. The pre-screen was done by someone other than CGC. There was never anything specific, just minor things that he said could be construed by CGC as signs of disassembly and cleaning.

It would really depend on what are the qualifications of the person who did the pre-screening for you. If he is someone whose opinion regarding restoration would carry weight in the community, which I'm guessing is the case since you asked him to look at the books, then it should definitely be disclosed.

 

Alternatively, you could just disclose (i) what you stated above about Recil Macon books having been worked on by Susan (which was great info, so thanks for that thumbsup2.gif), (ii) your strong suspicion (although not 100% confirmed) that it's a Macon book, and (iii) someone knowledgeable about restoration suspects it may have been disassembled and cleaned, but (iv) the experts at CGC have given it a blue label.

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Straw-Man

Straw-Man

Posted
Posted
I decided to send it in to CGC and see what they had to say. Again, while I am 95% certain it is the Macon I can't (honestly) try to get that pedigree designation on the submission. Viola....blue label. If I sell this book what is my ethical duty to the comic book community? (I know what I will do. I am wondering what you would do.)

 

How 'bout including in the auction description (assuming you sell it via auction) the following disclaimer: "CGC does not consider cleaning, pressing or disassembly of a book to be restoration, and the pre-screening process at that company determined a likelihood that at two of those three processes had probably been performed on the book. I know some people in the hobby consider one or more of these processes to be forms of restoration, so I'm disclosing what information I have about the comic to address any concerns in advance."

 

??

 

sounds good garth

 

when you sell a church book, do you need to tell the person that maybe this was one of the books that sat at the bottom of a 5' stack and got pressed for 40 years? and that maybe edgar put it there on purpose cuz he had bent it up pretty good in a frenzied night of drawing it's images? i know no one other than maybe chuck could know that, but it IS possible.

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ciorac

ciorac

Posted
Posted
I decided to send it in to CGC and see what they had to say. Again, while I am 95% certain it is the Macon I can't (honestly) try to get that pedigree designation on the submission. Viola....blue label. If I sell this book what is my ethical duty to the comic book community? (I know what I will do. I am wondering what you would do.)

 

How 'bout including in the auction description (assuming you sell it via auction) the following disclaimer: "CGC does not consider cleaning, pressing or disassembly of a book to be restoration, and the pre-screening process at that company determined a likelihood that at two of those three processes had probably been performed on the book. I know some people in the hobby consider one or more of these processes to be forms of restoration, so I'm disclosing what information I have about the comic to address any concerns in advance."

 

??

 

sounds good garth

 

when you sell a church book, do you need to tell the person that maybe this was one of the books that sat at the bottom of a 5' stack and got pressed for 40 years? and that maybe edgar put it there on purpose cuz he had bent it up pretty good in a frenzied night of drawing it's images? i know no one other than maybe chuck could know that, but it IS possible.

 

Billy, Billy, Billy.. 893naughty-thumb.gif

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MrBedrock

MrBedrock

Posted
Posted
I decided to send it in to CGC and see what they had to say. Again, while I am 95% certain it is the Macon I can't (honestly) try to get that pedigree designation on the submission. Viola....blue label. If I sell this book what is my ethical duty to the comic book community? (I know what I will do. I am wondering what you would do.)

 

How 'bout including in the auction description (assuming you sell it via auction) the following disclaimer: "CGC does not consider cleaning, pressing or disassembly of a book to be restoration, and the pre-screening process at that company determined a likelihood that at two of those three processes had probably been performed on the book. I know some people in the hobby consider one or more of these processes to be forms of restoration, so I'm disclosing what information I have about the comic to address any concerns in advance."

 

??

 

Maybe I read Richard's original message the wrong way, but I thought he was saying that the original pre-evaluator who thought the book might have been disassembled and cleaned was not CGC, but someone else?

 

That being the case, if I had the book graded by CGC and it came back clean, I probably would just sell it as a blue label unless the pre-evaluator had something specific he could point to that indicated the book might have been disassembled and cleaned (as opposed to just having a hunch). And in that case, I would have CGC re-check it with that information in mind. But if it still came back blue label, I would not mention the "hunch" that I got from someone else.

 

You read it right. The pre-screen was done by someone other than CGC. There was never anything specific, just minor things that he said could be construed by CGC as signs of disassembly and cleaning.

 

Out of curiosity - do you remember what the things were that he saw?

 

He said the staples looked slightly out of place. He also pointed out an area on the back cover where the surface was "stipled". Basically, when held to the light at a certain angle the surface looked rough. Means nothing to me and its something I would have never thought to look for.

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