Neil Gaiman and 1602

[Darthdiesel]

That was evident:

 

This was the statement that I thought was VERIFIED in issue 2:

 

" The inquisitor is Magneto, and the killer is the Vulture."

 

as of issue 1, this was just supposition...

 

[Illiterati-migration]

That was evident:

 

This was the statement that I thought was VERIFIED in issue 2:

 

" The inquisitor is Magneto, and the killer is the Vulture."

 

as of issue 1, this was just supposition...

 

Yes, I had no doubt that YOU would have figured that out... it's the other feces-throwers that I wonder about.

[Darthdiesel]

Just read 1602# 2 - I don't think annotations will be out on this issue. Everything was self explanatory. No hidden nuggets or vague characters being introduced. My take is that Virginia is supposed to be a Gwen Stacy analog - check out her sitting next to "Parquagh" and maybe you'll get that "feeling". Nothing more on revealed about the Old Man and the box - sort of about that...

 

Anyone want to bring up anything that wasn't obvious?

[Ares]

Just read 1602# 2 - I don't think annotations will be out on this issue. Everything was self explanatory. No hidden nuggets or vague characters being introduced. My take is that Virginia is supposed to be a Gwen Stacy analog - check out her sitting next to "Parquagh" and maybe you'll get that "feeling". Nothing more on revealed about the Old Man and the box - sort of about that...

 

Anyone want to bring up anything that wasn't obvious?

 

I definetly thouht Gwen Stacey but what was with her turning into that hawk at the end

[Kermit]

, yes the Gwen syndrome was present, but this character is related with an Alpha Flight member who could transform itself in different artic animals...Snow Bird.

 

I liked the issue a lot, but i've got the feeling that the end was a little rushed off (should have showen more fighting/capture scene of Rojhaz and the impact of losing it's protect~ed girl)...

[Ares]

, yes the Gwen syndrome was present, but this character is related with an Alpha Flight member who could transform itself in different artic animals...Snow Bird.

 

I guess it could be snowbird . Snowbord being Candian and all would fit

[RTBrandy]

I'm thinking Snowbird too.......just afraid that's too obvious

[Kevin Boyd]

Here's my take... Virginia Dare is in fact an actual person. She was the first English child born at an American colony. Her grandfather, I believe, was the governor of the colony, and he went to England to brief the crown on the development of the colony only to return to find that every member of the colony had gone missing... including Virginia.

 

The only thing that they could find was a single word painted in a hurry on a wall. I think it was ROANOKE... It's North America's first real unsolved mystery.

 

Now in 1602 the series, Virginia is alive and well... how and why? As the first English child born in North America she has some use as a metaphor for colonization... so what is Gaiman getting at by using her... and then having her transform into a Griffin when attacked by the Vulture... why do people want to kill a little girl from America?

 

My feeling is that the whole thing is wrapped up in the question... what happened to Virginia Dare and the settlers in North America?

 

The only other true historical figure present is Queen Elizabeth, while Nick Fury has taken the role of Sir Francis Walsingham and Dr. Stephen Strange the role of Dr. John Dee, known historical figures.

 

 

What I'm thinking has happened is that someone uncovered the mystery of what happened to the colonists, that Virginia is a ghost or has somehow been infused with the spirit of America, and that her dreams and knowledge of Europe have transformed the modern MU into the world of 1602, and that she is the reason why the there are so many familiar faces active there.

 

Perhaps she awoke in 2003... was confused and terrified by the modern world... and either she, or someone else, has set the look of the world back 400 years. But the illusion is starting to crack... someone realizes that she is the lynchpin to returning things back to the way they should be.

 

My guess is that the Fantastic Four's return will be a pivotal moment.

 

Kev

[rob_react]

"The only thing that they could find was a single word painted in a hurry on a wall. I think it was ROANOKE... "

 

It was "Croatoan."

[Kevin Boyd]

Thanks Rob... I thought I was wrong on that.

 

Kev

[Kevin Boyd]

Croatoan, unexplained letters found (1590) carved on a tree on Roanoke Island off North Carolina by Governor John White when he returned to the colony from England and discovered the colonists gone. White took the letters to mean that the settlers had moved to Croatoan Island some 50 mi (80 km) away, but no trace of them was ever found. The name, in the form Croatan, is popular in the region and is perhaps best known in the name of Croatan Sound, which connects Pamlico Sound with Albemarle Sound.

 

Kev

 

 

[Kevin Boyd]

The granddaughter of Governor John White, Virginia Dare was the first child born of English parents in the new world. The child's mother was White's daughter Eleanor. Her father, Ananias Dare, served as one of the Governor's assistants. Virginia was born on August 18, 1587, days after the colonists arrival on Roanoke Island. Her baptism on Sunday following her birth was the second recorded Christian sacrament administered in North America. The first baptism had been administered a few days earlier to Manteo, an Indian chief who was rewarded for his service by being christened and named ''Lord''.

 

When Governor White was forced to return to England for supplies, Virginia Dare was less than a month old, and he left with heavy heart, never realizing that he would never see her or any of the other colonists who remained behind again. Leaving the new world and his family behind must have been difficult for White. A secret code had been worked out, that should they leave Roanoke Island, they were to carve their new location on a conspicuous tree or post. If the move had to be made because of an attack, either by Indians or Spaniards, they were to carve over the letters or name a distress signal in the form of a Maltese cross.

 

Three years to the month later, White returned to find the word ''Croatoan'' without any cross or other sign of distress. To this day, no one is certain were the lost colony went, or what happened to them.

[Kevin Boyd]

This story is probably complete fiction but is nonetheless somewhat noteworthy:

 

Many tall tales have evolved from the misty curtain drawn about the Lost Colony. Virginia Dare is the subject of many variations. According to the legend, there was an attack by hostile Indians on the Roanoke colonists. Chief Manteo, returning from a fishing expedition, saw the raid in progress. By using a secret tunnel, he was able to lead all the inhabitants safely to nearby canoes. An all-night trip down the Pamlico brought the group to Manteo's village at Hatteras. There, the colonists were accepted into the tribe as brothers and sisters.

 

The fair, blond Virginia Dare was from the beginning a wonder to the Indians. As she grew in stature and years, many braves paid court for her hand in marriage. The fair girl loved all the people, both Indians and white, but was not yet ready to choose a mate. Chico, the tribal medicine man, was one who was greatly smitten by the maiden's charms. Though Virginia was kind to him, it was clear that Chico's ardor was not being returned. Finally, in a fit of passion, Chico vowed that if she would not marry him, she would have no man. Calling upon the power of the sea nymphs, Chico lured Virginia to Roanoke Island. Stepping ashore, she assumed the form of a snow-white deer.

 

Soon, it was whispered that a white doe was the leader of all the deer of Roanoke Island. Wherever the remarkable creature went, all others followed. Many great hunters tried to slay the mystical creature, but no arrow seemed to find a mark. As time went by, the white doe became a legend as well as a great challenge.

 

Finally, a great hunt was organized, and all the young braves of noble blood vowed their efforts. Many prizes and honors were to be awarded the victor. Young Wanchese, son of Chief Wanchese, who had traveled to England, had in his possession a silver-tipped arrow presented by Queen Elizabeth to his father. He believed it had magical powers and would bring him the quarry he sought.

 

As fate would have it, Wanchese did indeed sight the snow-white doe and, taking careful aim, loosed his deadly missile. The silver tip succeeded where all others had failed, and the deer fell to the ground. The young brave rushed forward to claim his prize, but all joy fled and was replaced by dismay as he heard the deer whisper with her last breath, faint but clear, "Virginia Dare''.

 

 

[Illiterati-migration]

"The only thing that they could find was a single word painted in a hurry on a wall. I think it was ROANOKE... "

 

It was "Croatoan."

 

Krakatoa, eh? Hmmm. So Count Nefaria and his Ani-Men are behind the whoooole thing? Heh. Oooo! Sorry, Neil Gaiman! BUS-TED!

[chrisco37]

It was "Croatoan."

 

I never knew that. I'm intrested in that as the word "Croatoa" is the key word in 100 Bullets for unlocking the "Minuteman" inside the characters....

 

Anyway, I finally just read issue #2 of 1602 and I must say, I really like this issue. Lots of action, good character interaction and a little more revealing of the plot. Of course, I liked the page w/ Doom appearing. Very fun issue, and I can't wait for #3.

 

And, I also want to add that last week was a really good week for comics. Every issue on my pull was really good. Dark Days #3 was the best issue so far, USM #47 (?) was really good. The Sandman kicks @$$. LOEG #6 had a fitting conclusion. And Fables was as good as ever! Still haven't read JLA/Avengers yet.

 

Kev....nice theories. And you are probably onto something w/ the Roanoake ghost idea. I agree, the reaturn of the FF will be a huge part. They are referenced far too often (in just 2 issues) for them not to show up. Add that Doom will be a big player, and it's inevitable that they'll be there at the end.

 

Chris

[Comic_Diva]

Every issue on my pull was really good. Dark Days #3 was the best issue so far, USM #47 (?) was really good. The Sandman kicks @$$. Chris

 

I second that motion. Dark Days and Criminal Macabre spanked. The Sandman Special was long over due and for me, did not disappoint. Good stuff

[Zonker]

kev...

I agree Virginia Dare is the key to what brought the 1602 world into being. Rather than being a Marvel Universe analogue, she's the fulcrum that in some way has shifted the history of the M.U. (presumably also our history up until WWII) into the 1602 history. The fate of the Lost Colony is different for some reason in this timeline, and I'm curious how Gaiman will use that single difference to propel all the Marvel analogues to pop up in 17th century Europe. (Hope it's not a death-dream Virginia's having though!)

 

Am currently also reading Gaiman's American Gods, and the theme of the Old World colliding with the New shows up there in a big way. There is a brief flashback in A.G. to an early Viking North American settlement being wiped out Indians in revenge for an atrocity committed by the Vikings-- could be a template for what Gaiman believes happened to the Lost Colony in "our" timeline.

 

 

[Kevin Boyd]

Hey Zonker,

 

Interesting that he referenced the Vikings in American Gods... as Rohjaz is fair haired and white skinned. There were reports of some American indians with those physical traits who were supposedly descendants of the Vikings that landed in NA hundreds of years before White's Lost Colony was established. I assume that Cap is supposed to be one of those descendants in the world of 1602. I assume that somehow Virginia's Lost Colony met up with Rohjaz's tribe.

 

Virgina Dare has quite a lot of value as a symbol of colonization, but the how and why of how her world has become intermeshed with the early Marvel Universe is an interesting enigma. The FF as the Marvel Universe's main explorers must somehow be either responsible or at the heart of the mystery.

 

Since Neil has gone out of his way to say that this is not an imaginary story and will tie in with the modern MU in some way makes me believe that this is still the modern MU transformed. Somewhat akin to Busiek's opening story arc in Avengers Vol. II where Morgan le Fey transformed the earth into a Camelot equivalent or when Kulan Gath transformed modern-day Manhattan into a Hyborian-age city in Uncanny X-Men 190-191.

 

Kev