Fair Market Value?

[wormboy]

When you folks send books to CGC, what do you use as a guideline for "Fair Market Value"? Do you think it has any effect on the grading process? I just sent some books in, and am curious.

 

Also, do any of you have (good or bad) experience using the Pre-Screening option?

 

Thanks.

[sfilosa]

I would not think it has any effect on the grade. Obviously, depending on how long you are willing to wait, I would always try to use the least expensive service. If I thought a book might be worth $1,400 in NM-, I would then assume the book could come back VF+ and only be worth $800. Therefore I would use the standard service and save $30 on the book. So what if it takes 10 extra days. And if you can do it at a convention, you might not wait any longer.

 

Unless you were just way off on your pricing, I don't think CGC is going to send a book back (and not grade it). Basically, they get the FMV from what you are insuring it for. So you can't say I want to insure a book for $500 but use the economy service (for books less than $250).

 

 

[wormboy]

Thanks for your input! I used the CBG Guide as a reference. I was worried that using CBG instead of Overstreet or realized eBay prices may make CGC think I was lowballing the prices. As you may know, the prices they show are much lower than Overstreet. Wish I could really buy books at the CBG prices. These days you're lucky if you can find HG books at OS prices. Thanks.

[garthgantu]

I would not think it has any effect on the grade. Obviously, depending on how long you are willing to wait, I would always try to use the least expensive service. If I thought a book might be worth $1,400 in NM-, I would then assume the book could come back VF+ and only be worth $800. Therefore I would use the standard service and save $30 on the book.

 

An interesting and probably generally agreed-upon rule, Sf... but I've wondered about this question too... in other words, if you have a book that guides for $1,400 in NM-, but you think it *might* come back as a VF-to-VF+, and you thus assign a "speculative value" of $800 to it, do you think that in any way could impact CGC's grading of it? In other words, could the good folks at CGC be thinking "Well hell, the OWNER of this book doesn't even think it's in NM- ... look at the value he's placing on it! " and thus influence their own grading of it? I know, I know, the graders and the "processors" at CGC are separate, but still...

 

If in fact your approach is entirely safe in terms of NOT influencing CGC, it seems like lowballing everthing you submit would be the way to go...

[Warlord]

.

 

Unless you were just way off on your pricing, I don't think CGC is going to send a book back (and not grade it). Basically, they get the FMV from what you are insuring it for. So you can't say I want to insure a book for $500 but use the economy service (for books less than $250).

 

Why does the FMV on the submission form have to have any correlation to the insured value?

 

Does the recipient of an insured parcel even know what amount of USPS insurance you purchased?

 

Or what if you ship UPS, don't you automatically get $300 in free content insurance? The recipient wouldn't know if you valued the item at $30 or $300, would they?

 

Or what if, as I'm planning, you ship USPS but don't purchase USPS insurance? My collectibles insurance I've bought will cover comics I ship so it would be redundant to pay for USPS insurance...

 

[COI]

but you think it *might* come back as a VF-to-VF+, and you thus assign a "speculative value" of $800 to it, do you think that in any way could impact CGC's grading of it? In other words, could the good folks at CGC be thinking "Well hell, the OWNER of this book doesn't even think it's in NM- ... look at the value he's placing on it! " and thus influence their own grading of it?

 

 

I know for a fact that CGC will bump up the price after the book is graded, if the submission tier you sent the book through is too low.

 

As to whether or not I think that CGC could be impacted by a declared value, I would say a definite no. The person sending in the book is paying for CGC's opinion, not the other way around, so why would they even take the submitter's opinion into consideration? It dosen't benefit them at all. Infact, if they grade a 9.2 as a 7.5 just so it fits into the estimated value, they're losing money, AND credibility. On CGC's end, there is no stretch of logic immaginable they could make to justify downgrading a book to that extent under the influence of the submitter. If someone thought a(true) NM- was a VF-, I would say that's beyond tight grading, and into the realm of not knowing how to grade, just like the Ebayers who call VF- books NM.

 

 

[sfilosa]

know for a fact that CGC will bump up the price after the book is graded, if the submission tier you sent the book through is too low.

 

This could be true!!!!

 

Regarding the FMV and insured value, this is what a person at CGC told me when I made my first submission.

 

And they will insure your books for the FMV you show on the form (that's how they know how much to charge for RETURN shipping).

 

Obviously, you could submit a book that you think might get a NM- (maybe a NM if your lucky) and say the market value of the book is $200 (which would be accurate). Then CGC gives it a 9.6 grade because they DIDN'T downgrade the book for some dirt on the back, a printers crease and slight mis-cut and the tiniest of Marvel tears (all things that I might downgrade a book for). Well now your book probably is a $500-600 book. Will they bump their grading fee, maybe? But they will probably ship it insured for $200 which is what you paid for.

 

Plus, remember they took 40 days or more to grade because it was ECONOMY class grading. So is it really fair for them to charge you more because the books ending grade gave the book a huge premium even though they didn't grade the book any faster? I don't think so. If you send in a $500 book that comes back restored and is worth $150, don't do lower their grading fee, do they?

[Kevin76]

I only did walk thru once when it was a flat fee But I needed answer on a really big book right away,If you ask me the Fair Market Value is a scam,It came at a time when CGC was soooo hot.It doesn't cost anymore to grade an Action 1 than it does a Superman 95 for example..both are golden age.But yet to grade the Action , it'll cost a $1000. To grade the Superman 95...sent Standard it's only 50 bucks.

 

Now is they both will get the same attention,same time spent on looking at it,same restoration check and the same plastic shiny new labeled holder.Now then,I don't know who thought up this new "percent of the value" grading fee but It has caused me to stay away from it and it seems it has caused alot of major Pedigree's like Allentown,Mile High and Spokane golden age books to be kept "raw" unslabbed copies from being graded. Seems like CGC just wants a piece of the action if you ask me.Looks like CGC said "well if books like Detective 27 are selling for 50-100K "why can't we get more for grading it,since it never would have sold for that price without our service" Well Mr Borrock,care to comment? If not, I'll assume the following. Kevin

[Illiterati-migration]

 

It has caused me to stay away from it and it seems it has caused alot of Major Pedigree's like Allentown,Mile High and Spokane golden age books to be kept "raw" unslabbed copies from being graded.

 

He's my cousin.

[Kevin76]

 

It has caused me to stay away from it and it seems it has caused alot of Major Pedigree's like Allentown,Mile High and Spokane golden age books to be kept "raw" unslabbed copies from being graded.

 

He's my cousin.

 

brillant

[Illiterati-migration]

 

It has caused me to stay away from it and it seems it has caused alot of Major Pedigree's like Allentown,Mile High and Spokane golden age books to be kept "raw" unslabbed copies from being graded.

 

He's my cousin.

 

brillant

 

[COI]

Plus, remember they took 40 days or more to grade because it was ECONOMY class grading. So is it really fair for them to charge you more because the books ending grade gave the book a huge premium even though they didn't grade the book any faster? I don't think so. If you send in a $500 book that comes back restored and is worth $150, don't do lower their grading fee, do they?

 

It may not be fair, but from their perspective they have to do it that way. Otherwise, people would take advantage and just keep sending their more expensive books through economy. If you're sending in a lot of books, it's worth waiting the extra 25 business days to save money, as the fees can really add up.

 

 

I also sent a book walk thru, because it was worth thousands and I needed to get a resto check(most of you will know what book I'm talking about). Like Kevin, I also paid a flat fee because it ended up being restored.

[Kevin76]

I also sent a book walk thru, because it was worth thousands and I needed to get a resto check(most of you will know what book I'm talking about). Like Kevin, I also paid a flat fee because it ended up being restored.

 

same deal here Andrew, I know EXACTLY what book it is. Kevin

[garthgantu]

As to whether or not I think that CGC could be impacted by a declared value, I would say a definite no. The person sending in the book is paying for CGC's opinion, not the other way around, so why would they even take the submitter's opinion into consideration?

 

Okay, then why does CGC ask the opinion of the submitter in the first place?

 

It dosen't benefit them at all. Infact, if they grade a 9.2 as a 7.5 just so it fits into the estimated value, they're losing money, AND credibility. On CGC's end, there is no stretch of logic immaginable they could make to justify downgrading a book to that extent under the influence of the submitter. If someone thought a(true) NM- was a VF-, I would say that's beyond tight grading, and into the realm of not knowing how to grade, just like the Ebayers who call VF- books NM.

 

I would respectfully suggest that there's a world of difference between overgrading and undergrading. One (overgrading) turns a blind eye to generally-recognized defects, blemishes, etc. Undergrading, by contrast, results from people who consider every little niggling detail to be a major problem.

 

Maybe the better point here would be, why does CGC charge different amounts for different books? If in fact each book receives the same treatment and is scrutinized to the same extent, the only real rationale for charging more would seem to be the number of pages, since they look at each page and doing that must take some amount of time. In this case, shouldn't a 100-page or Giant-Size book cost more than a standard issue from the same period?

 

I'm not implying that CGC does in fact base its grading on the submitter's perceived value of the book; I'm simply questioning why the submitter's perceived value of the book is factored in at all. And if the answer is "to cover the insurance when sending the book back," then I still don't get it, 'cause until the book is graded, how can you calculate the value and thus the insurance cost?

[WEBHEAD]

To throw my two cents in on the "fair market value" that was used for the insured amount, I was also confused over their cost of the service by fair market value. To play the devil's avocate let's say that your summit a book that you purchased for $250 but may be worth more. Let's say that their grading is not impacted by the value you give, but the value they think that book is worth. Does that mean that they will guarantee that your book will bring back that same or greater value. I don't think so. Will if also influence their grading? Will they actually send your book back or ask for more $$$ who knows.

 

I don't think they should be in the how much is it worth business.

 

that's just my opinion.

 

[murph0]

Okay, then why does CGC ask the opinion of the submitter in the first place?

 

I'm curious, are you one of those that bashs (dislikes) CGC without ever trying the service? I'd guess anyone who's submitted a book before would know that the F.M.V. is asked in order to calculate the cost of insurance on the return shipping.

 

Brian

[supapimp]

I also sent a book walk thru, because it was worth thousands and I needed to get a resto check(most of you will know what book I'm talking about). Like Kevin, I also paid a flat fee because it ended up being restored.

 

the Avengers #1 that you purchased from COMIC-KEYS? it came back from CGC as RESTORED so you returned it. then he sent you another copy that came back RESTORED too, is that what your talking about?

[CosmicBob]

I also sent a book walk thru, because it was worth thousands and I needed to get a resto check(most of you will know what book I'm talking about). Like Kevin, I also paid a flat fee because it ended up being restored.

 

the Avengers #1 that you purchased from COMIC-KEYS? it came back from CGC as RESTORED so you returned it. then he sent you another copy that came back RESTORED too, is that what your talking about?

 

You don't mean to imply that COMIC-KEYS knowingly sells RESTORED books?

 

Say it ain't so!!!

[supapimp]

[wormboy]

 

I used the CBG Price Guide as a reference for FMV. I submitted a book that they showed was $24. If the book gets a 9.6, it would probably sell for $250+. I sent the book in for Modern service, which, I believe must be valued at $200 or less.

 

If I am understanding everyone correctly, if the book does get a 9.6, CGC will charge me additional fees, and insure it for an amount closer to $250? Makes sense.

 

I know you weren't asking me Brian, but I have submitted books before (though only a couple of times), and I did not know that they ask for FMV in order to calculate the insurance on return shipping.

 

Overall, I have been pleased by the service. More importantly, I love the fact that they exist, as I can finally buy HG books on eBay, and know that they will not be VG. Thanks,

 

Tim