Just got some boxes back from CGC

[Bullet123]

Bullet,

 

first, thank you for posting the results.

 

Second, would you care elaborating on your pre-conceived grades. I notice all the books you sent were listed as 8.0. Was it because you thought they were all VFs or because you thought they were all at least VFs? That part is confusing.

 

 

 

Third, yikes! The auction house has a clear case of rose-colored glasses I mean, not a single book was under-graded or even correctly graded! The over-grading is averaging more than half-a-grade.

 

Fourth, what's the nature of the Resto according to the labels? Is it consistently the same: color touch or this or that or is it whatever it takes to make this particular book better? The dealer's over-grading slightly less, just a tad over a half-grade but still he is as erratic / scattered as the auction house.

 

I did not keep track of the grades when I bought them off EBAY because most of the time they were not graded at all, graded in a non comic book language (like new,etc.) they simply looked to me based on the scans to be at least an 8.0 as that is my self imposed cutoff grade

 

All of the restorations were slight color touch

[Bullet123]

My point in starting this thread is two fold.

 

First is to point out that even books in the VF range with average guide values of $25 - $100 are not safe from having work done on them. So imagine if you will if these books were in the guide range of $500-$5000 range how the percentages might even increase as the greed factor becomes a part of the equation.

 

Second is for people to make a collection lifestyle decision here. If you are buying these sort of books because they are so much cheaper RAW then CGC graded, are you going to be happy with these sort of results someday later down the road when you decide to part with them and get them graded.

 

As to the several dozen PM's I have received since I first posted this thread I am not going to out the dealer until I have given them the opportunity to do the right thing. If I do not receive a satisfactory response from them, then I will be happy to declare who they are on these boards for all to see and then they can field all of your questions regarding how this sort of thing can happen. I do not think this is an isolated event IMO. I have suspected as much regarding why there are still so many RAW books out here when CGC graded books consistently acheive better sales results. This, in my mind anyway, solidifies my standing that CGC is the only way for me to truly be happy with my purchase both today and in the future should I ever try and sell a book.

[Mr. Zipper]

Bullet -

 

What kind of books were they? GA, SA, BA or a mixed bag?

 

I'm curious as to what era all the PLODs came from.

[Bullet123]

Bullet -

 

What kind of books were they? GA, SA, BA or a mixed bag?

 

I'm curious as to what era all the PLODs came from.

 

GA/SA only I beleive all the PLOD were GA

[Mr. Zipper]

Bullet -

 

What kind of books were they? GA, SA, BA or a mixed bag?

 

I'm curious as to what era all the PLODs came from.

 

GA/SA only I beleive all the PLOD were GA

 

What I would suspect. It would be really alarming if the PLODs were all from different eras, that is, probably from different sources.

 

If all the PLODS are GA, at least there is the plausible explanation that the dealer bought them all from the same collection and it was the owner that did it.

 

[Sal]

As to the several dozen PM's I have received since I first posted this thread I am not going to out the dealer until I have given them the opportunity to do the right thing. If I do not receive a satisfactory response from them, then I will be happy to declare who they are on these boards for all to see and then they can field all of your questions regarding how this sort of thing can happen.

 

while i can understand your position, i wish you had just left that dealer's batch out of your report altogether, instead of telling all of us that there is a major dealer who gets not only a 25% PLOD rate, but has an overgrading percentage of 76% as well! so, instead of just putting the facts out there, you cause a lot of people to be suspicious about a number of dealers...

 

[Bullet123]

Bullet -

 

What kind of books were they? GA, SA, BA or a mixed bag?

 

I'm curious as to what era all the PLODs came from.

 

GA/SA only I beleive all the PLOD were GA

 

What I would suspect. It would be really alarming if the PLODs were all from different eras, that is, probably from different sources.

 

If all the PLODS are GA, at least there is the plausible explanation that the dealer bought them all from the same collection and it was the owner that did it.

 

 

I want to be clear on one thing. I do not think the dealer did the color touch, however whether it was ignorance or laziness or looking the other way-ness, it is still a PLOD which I would expect a dealer to be able to detect or they should not be in the RAW comic book business period

[nik]

 

 

Wait I dont buy GA so

 

 

[Bullet123]

 

 

Wait I dont buy GA so

 

 

 

So you think Silver Age is immune to this kind of thing

[chrisco37]

I've got an idea who the dealer is too. If it's who I think it is, they will do the right thing.

 

I'd bet money that it wasn't Bob Storms. You should've tried your experiment with him. Usually, the CGC grades are higher than what he grades them (at least, that has been my experience).

[blazingbob]

Robert,

Was it Amateur or professional work?

 

Minor or Major?

 

What exactly was the work? just color touch? Sorry, didn't see the earlier post that it was slight color touch.

 

Did you call for the notes and verify where the color touch was in order to show the dealer what he missed? Was it a "tiny" amount or full blown Magic marker up and down the spine?

[nik]

Just messin with Sal and no I dont think any age comic is immune sadly.

[Sal]

Just messin with Sal and no I dont think any age comic is immune sadly.

 

[ArAich]

My take on this is quite simple...if I buy a book from someone and it comes back from CGC lower than what they graded it at then I blame myself...I should've known whether the grade was correct or not...

 

Besides...if I buy a book from anybody and I agree with the assessment yet I send it in to CGC and they grade it a full grade lower...then what's the dif???...I was happy with it before sending it in so why should I be dissappointed after having it slabbed...

Just remove it from the slab and be happy again...

[Bullet123]

Robert,

Was it Amateur or professional work?

 

Minor or Major?

 

What exactly was the work? just color touch? Sorry, didn't see the earlier post that it was slight color touch.

 

Did you call for the notes and verify where the color touch was in order to show the dealer what he missed? Was it a "tiny" amount or full blown Magic marker up and down the spine?

 

Slight Professional color touch. I just got the boxes last night so I have not had a chance to call in for grades. To me, it really does not matter where the color touch was except that it would be a good to know what to look for assuming I could even tell after being told where it was. This is not directed at you Bob but this is why guys like me who buy books get frustrated with the dealer community. I am happy to spend money on books. I just want to feel that I am getting what I paid for and the only way for me to feel that way is with CGC books. It amazes me how many customers blindly call themselves restoration/grading experts and IMO I think a lot of them will be very disappointed later on when and if they ever decide to get them graded. Maybe it is a pollyanna attitude on my part, but I feel it is the dealers responsibility to not sell me restored books, not my responsibility to catch his mistakes. What am I paying the dealer for? Their charm and rapier wit?

[rob_allan]

My take on this is quite simple...if I buy a book from someone and it comes back from CGC lower than what they graded it at then I blame myself...I should've known whether the grade was correct or not...

 

Besides...if I buy a book from anybody and I agree with the assessment yet I send it in to CGC and they grade it a full grade lower...then what's the dif???...I was happy with it before sending it in so why should I be dissappointed after having it slabbed...

Just remove it from the slab and be happy again...

 

Well, even if I agreed with this sentiment, there would still be the matter with the books that have resto. From a valuation standpoint, this can be a tragedy. Imagine if you paid fair market or higher for a high-dollar book and it came back PLODed. There's a legitimate concern at that point whether you're out the money or not. Hopefully the dealer makes it right (refund) but what if they don't? Or, what if you held onto that book for years before sending it in and only find out later and said dealer doesn't do business anymore? It's still on your back to disclose so in that scenario you're out the money.

 

And with regard to your original take, let's be real here. When you pay for PROFESSIONAL grading, that IS the grade of the book. You can feel differently about it, yadda yadda. But that is the service you pay for with CGC. If a dealer's grades don't align well with CGC that impacts your investment as well. Especially if you buy with intent to slab. So saying just "remove it from the slab and be happy" is all well-and-good. But again, it's sort of on your back to disclose the actual book grade (at least if you're honest.) And you don't get that pricey slabbing fee back either. (Meaning you'll probably not come close to recouping your investment for the average book.)

 

So yeah, it matters.

[Nostalgic Attic]

 

I want to be clear on one thing. I do not think the dealer did the color touch, however whether it was ignorance or laziness or looking the other way-ness, it is still a PLOD which I would expect a dealer to be able to detect or they should not be in the RAW comic book business period

 

I don't think anyone was concerned that the dealer did the CT so much as the fact that the dealer missed it. It doesn't matter either that they were GA books. It could have happened to any of the books you purchased from them, because they aparently are not checking for resto. And that is what is cause for concern, because some well known dealers say that they DO perform a resto check.

 

I would like to know who it is ( ) whether they make it right for you or not. It doesn't change the fact that they don't check for CT.

[ArAich]

Yeah... I left out the resto angle...but any reputable dealer will try to make things right if resto was found on a book that they had sold...

 

My point is that if you recieve a book then you should at least know if it is an acceptable grade for what you had paid for it...Has anyone here on these boards been 100% in line with CGC's certification???...I don't think so...

 

Stop relying on CGC to make or break the value of a book...that should be known when you recieve not when someone else states it as such...Geez...what in the world did people do before the advent of CGC ...

[G.A.tor]

hello all...

very interesting experiment...I buy a lot of raw books, from virtually every source out there, but I do send them all to CGC (after they are read and enjoyed), predominantly for the resto check. I have found that I am usually within 1/2 grade (up and down) with CGC, so I am confident in my grading ability, but it is the resto check that is valuable to me (I have no confidence/experience in this area). Whether you spend $25 or $25,000 on a book, there has to be a liquidity factor with the purchase, given the nature of our hobby, and given the way financial situations can change.

thanks

gator

[rob_allan]

Yeah... I left out the resto angle...but any reputable dealer will try to make things right if resto was found on a book that they had sold...

 

My point is that if you recieve a book then you should at least know if it is an acceptable grade for what you had paid for it...Has anyone here on these boards been 100% in line with CGC's certification???...I don't think so...

 

Stop relying on CGC to make or break the value of a book...that should be known when you recieve not when someone else states it as such...Geez...what in the world did people do before the advent of CGC ...

 

They overgraded of course!!!! (Edit: Also, what we did before CGC is no longer relevant. Even a casual collector will tell you CGC changed the market.)

 

Isn't the point of CGC so that a book can be reputeably graded? I mean, we're paying for the book to be PROFESSIONALLY graded. And that may well mean we trust CGC to grade for us, especially since that is the service we are paying for. So is it really unreasonable for a CGC grade to make or break the value of the book? I mean, again, that grade IS the grade. Everyone will view that grade as the grade. CGC are the pros. That's what they're paid for. And that, by default, assigns the column in Overstreet where a book belongs. So it does make or break the value. And that's at least half of the point.

 

I mean, you can tell me if I'm wrong. But if you're saying that CGC grade doesn't matter and/or doesn't impact the value of the book, then that's odd to me.

 

If you're buying books from a dealer who is consistantly off the mark, then a price adjustment is certainly necessary when buying future books. That's sort of why I'd like to know who the dealer is. Because I wouldn't want to pay over Guide for a book and have to wait for the value to catch up. Especially a high-dollar book where that may not even happen in my collecting lifetime.

 

Just my two cents.