Just got some boxes back from CGC

[Bullet123]

With this particular dealer, every book purchased was at least guide and in most case more like 150% of guide before you factor in the that they were off on at least 50% of the books compared to CGC. and a full 20% of them came back PLOD vs a whopping 0% for my purchases.

 

Hi Bullet, I think based on the list you posted, the dealer had them listed around 9.0 some higher, a few lower, and in doing so asked for above guide since it is common to pay more for HG. So of course one should expect to pay above guide when buying close to NM books.

 

His grades might have been too high accross the board, but some of the books still graded out at 9.0 So in the end I would ask you if you felt the extra price bump was worth it for a 9.0 type book (missed resto aside)compared to the below guide 7.5 price you recieved from other venues.

 

Hope that made sense.

 

Ze-

 

I do not mind paying more than guide for books that actually are exactly what they say they are.

 

If you look at the stats

 

the dealer sold me 17 books graded an average 8.87

CGC graded the books an average of 8.29 so an average of half guide lower

 

These are not books that generally carry a premium at the 8.5-9.0 level and if they did the difference in guide between an 8.0 and a 9.2 is substantial roughly 80% so to me it is important that they hit the mark. Keep in mind I did not want the offer one way. I was willing to pay more for books that came back higher in grade which a couple did

 

But remember 4 of the 17 books came back PLOD (23.5%) rendering them virtualy worthless so if i assign them a grade of 2 then the group comes back an average grade of 6.72 so you tell me was it worth the premium?

[Monstro]

It’s sad, but in this age of the super high dollar books and CGC. I would think purchasing a raw GA book that is advertised at 7.0 or better is a mistake. Especially if it’s coming from a dealer or auction house that should know their stuff. Selling comics is how they make their living, so you know any book in that grade rang they would slab to maximize their profit. Unless…………

[divad]

What am I paying the dealer for? Their charm and rapier wit?

 

[divad]

Bullet,

 

What was the dealer's response when you asked him about the CGC screening idea.

 

Click

 

[divad]

Post of the week:

 

And this is not directed at you but something I've stated before and I'll keep on saying it. Soapbox being set up.

 

You and I are in a hobby where the formal training is the reading of a guide to learn how to grade by watching others, doing it yourself and if you are openminded asking others for help. The 'GRADING IS SUBJECTIVE" statement seems to be the standard because there is no cut and dry interpretation of the original Overstreet price guide grades and the grading guides over the years. If you were taught by a ballistic grader than you grade ballistic, If you have been taught by someone who is loose well there you go. As dealers go you "assess" your grading skills by comparing your stuff to other dealers. If enough collectors don't agree with your grades maybe, just maybe you'll think about changing those grades. There is NO dealer or CGC grader for that matter that has a certificate from a grading school stating that they know how to grade. Many assume that they know how to grade. Or spot restoration for that matter. I know it's not that easy to do but how exactly would you approach a dealer or collector and broach the topic of "How did you learn how to grade" or "Who taught you how to grade?"

 

I learned as a teenager and have been learning ever since. And when CGC came into the market I learned some more. To the point where I think that CGC doesn't grade to how the general population does. If I did feel that the general population graded like CGC I would be able to buy raw books from collectors and dealers and confidently get CGC grades that were close. And I don't just like Bob's small sample shows. All that tells me is that a lot more people out there DON'T know how to grade.

 

If dealers haven't been to grading school what makes you think that many of them have gone to restoration class? Again, they learn by doing or being taught. I've learned by working with Vinny, having Steve Fishler show me work that has been done, Matt Nelson has taken time to show me examples. Marnin Rosenburg taught me about pressing long before this forum existed. And even what he's taught me has been expanded by asking and learning from others.

 

It is a dealers responsibility to not sell you restored books but I think you have to ask how long they've been doing this. Tactfully ask about their grading and restoration ability. If they have a restoration policy I would assume they know how to spot it but I wouldn't count on it. All it takes is some money, a sign, maybe a display and you are a dealer. Trust him because he paid $65 or $500 to buy a table that he can spot restoration, not me.

 

[Davenport]

It’s sad, but in this age of the super high dollar books and CGC. I would think purchasing a raw GA book that is advertised at 7.0 or better is a mistake. Especially if it’s coming from a dealer or auction house that should know their stuff. Selling comics is how they make their living, so you know any book in that grade rang they would slab to maximize their profit. Unless…………

Sometimes it appears encapsulation is just a Game tool. Like any of the quick-upvalue gaming tools used, if it doesn't increase the payday, why get it done?

At least, that's how it seems.

 

Detective Comics #49, Qualified VF/NM 9.0 "The Qualified grade is due to rust on staples (minimal rust migration to the paper)." $1200 BIN

 

Detective Comics #49 FN 6.0 "Rust migration, but white pages." $597.50 Jan 7, 2007

[Bullet123]

I am still getting a lot of PM's wanting me to name names. As I stated earlier in this thread, I will only name names if I do not get a satisfactory resolution from the dealer. I have not had the chance to e-mail them and get their take on the situation.

[sterlingcomics]

That has to be the best articulated post I've ever seen Bob write...

 

I think the majority of us has categorized most of the dealers we work with based on our own experiences. It would be interesting to see despite the variances in grading how closely corelated the customer's recommendation are.

[clarkkentdds]

I too have suggested this "CGC screening" to dealers. I am tired of losing money when it comes time to sell my "beautiful RAW NM+" when it gets a CGC 8.0... Having bought before the days of CGC, I just took my lumps... Now that CGC has equalized the playing field, I only buy CGC.

 

People always tell me, "Don't buy the grade- buy the book..." or "Just take it out of the slab and you have a 'NM+' again". It just doesn't work for the sucker (collector) that tries to resell the book.

 

I already lose money when it comes time to sell a book that is now the 2nd or 3rd highest because a new highest grade just showed up. (When I originally bought it from the dealer as the highest graded.)

 

The quickest way to lose money in this hobby is to chase the highest graded book this early in the CGC game. Yes, you can lose money in the high grade game... Just try to sell a 9.0 that is now the 2nd highest graded book (when you bought it as the highest.)

 

OK- rant over...

[divad]

I am still getting a lot of PM's wanting me to name names. As I stated earlier in this thread, I will only name names if I do not get a satisfactory resolution from the dealer. I have not had the chance to e-mail them and get their take on the situation.

 

I am personally amused by the requests to name names, as from what I've seen, there are only a couple of big dealers that fall outside this practice. Thanks for the informative thread.

[otherworldsj33]

I would say probably 75% and maybe even up to 90% of dealers, private collectors, and even auctions houses overgrade from at least half and usually up to one to one and a half a grade. I am talking from personal experince here. I have purchased literally over a thousand comics raw and have had them graded in the last 5 years, from ebay, many large and small dealers, auction venues, here on the boards. A book comes back the same grade I purchased it at, maybe only about 1 in 25-30. Comes back undergraded maye 1 in 50. There are very few books I have the desire to purchase raw, espeically if I can not inspect them. It's just not worth the hassle and headache for me.