Original Art pricing....How much is too much ?

[tth2]

OA prices have tripled in the last 2.5 years. My union wages have only gone up an average of 2.5% annually over the last 3 years.

Yes, but the purchasing power of your Canadian Dollars has increased by about 50%.

[Bronty]

OA prices have tripled in the last 2.5 years. My union wages have only gone up an average of 2.5% annually over the last 3 years.

Yes, but the purchasing power of your Canadian Dollars has increased by about 50%.

 

thanks Dubya!

[KingOfRulers]

 

As for the source, dealer mark ups are not the problem at all. It takes 2 to tango, someone has to buy at those prices for the mark up to work. That means the problem is collectors willing to pay more and more for original art. Dealers play no part in this.

 

 

Malvin

 

EXACTLY. I look at some of the prices for new artwork on some of the bigger new art dealers, and think the prices are insane. $500 for a not so great Cassaday Astonishing X-men page is just crazy to me. But then I look and see how many of the pieces have sold Collectors are paying too much, and only making it that much harder the next time they want to buy.

[Sharkey]

Right now I am in a holding pattern

 

You just need me to buy some more of your pre-heroes.

 

 

Angelo

 

Sounds good -- whatcha want?

[TheWatcher]

Right now I am in a holding pattern

 

You just need me to buy some more of your pre-heroes.

 

 

Angelo

 

Sounds good -- whatcha want?

 

 

Right now I am in a holding pattern

[Sharkey]

Right now I am in a holding pattern

 

You just need me to buy some more of your pre-heroes.

 

 

Angelo

 

Sounds good -- whatcha want?

 

 

Right now I am in a holding pattern

 

 

You just need me to sell you some more of my pre-heroes.

 

[TheWatcher]

Right now I am in a holding pattern

 

You just need me to buy some more of your pre-heroes.

 

 

Angelo

 

Sounds good -- whatcha want?

 

 

Right now I am in a holding pattern

 

 

You just need me to sell you some more of my pre-heroes.

 

 

[snappahead]

Your first post was brilliant Westform. Truer words have never been spoken. After reading it, I have almost nothing to add .

[doom-migration]

great topic, I collect dr doom, and I never could afford Kirby pages, and they were around $800-1000 10 years ago, but me spending $200 was a ton back then, still is not, but not as much. Like someone said earlier, whe we first start out, we get what we can afford, and I was getting panel pages, because I could not afford splash pages. I found an old ad I had kept of Hugo's, and he had an Infinity Gauntlet George Perez Thanos splash page, the one of just THanos's head with his fist showing off the gauntlet. He was selling it for $190 15 years ago. Perez prices have soared, but Ron Lim, who was "hot" back then, his have not been anywhere close to Perez prices. Some of his Silver Surfer stuff is going a bit higher now(I know, lost a few pages on ebay) BUt I was just found some old ad books from 1995 from Mitch, Graphic Collectibles he would send out once a month for a year if you bought pages from him. But man, the prices in those, make your head spin for what the pages are going for now. But I had to eat, plus going to school it is hard to drop big money (anything over $200 back then) on pages when you don't have the disposable income.

so certain pages, by certain artist have gone through the roof. But some like Pat Broderick, his stuff is about the same price as 10 years ago. Good for me since I collect Doom 2099, but bad if I wanted to sell that part of my collection to pay my house off. But I do love Pat's Doom 2099(well the first 25 issues) never liked the armor change, then after Pat left some hack, really bad artist(or I hated his "style") took over and I quit reading it and will never own that art, very ugly, sloppy, I hated it. Really hated it!

Maybe if someone has some scans of old catalogs of original art listed for sale they could post them. Be fun to see what people could of had for a fraction of the cost.

 

But 22k for a page, to me is excessive, but like they said earlier, the top pages will hold their value and always have a market. Now will an Dell'otto painted cover be worth 22k 12 years from now, I doubt it, but will a Kirby classic page, yes. I don't think pages today by current artist will ever reach that 22k or very few ever will. Remember, these are one of a kinds, so they will always have some value as opposed to comic books or baseball cards were someone can find a million others like it. Like someone said on an earlier post, buy and collect because you love the art, so if the bottom ever did fall out, at least you will love looking at it on your walls regardless of it's value.

.happy collecting.....DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MedicAR]

Everone made good points. I would argue that the runup in OA is tied in with the global asset runup, housing prices, commodities etc. I have no idea if it will dip or keep on going up. If I knew for sure, I would be rich.

 

If you're tying it to the global or at least national economy, prices will come down. It's just the ebb and flow of the markets. Prices will go higher and higher, but there will come a point of a collective "what were we thinking?" and prices will come down. It's the nature of the free market, big jumps followed by a leveling off and then it climbs again. The decline may not be much, and likely won't affect the grail pieces, but the overall market will eventually dip and begin climbing again.

 

As for the source, dealer mark ups are not the problem at all. It takes 2 to tango, someone has to buy at those prices for the mark up to work. That means the problem is collectors willing to pay more and more for original art. Dealers play no part in this.

 

Not to pick a fight here, but can you really believe it "takes 2 to tango" and believe "Dealers play no part in this"? The statement alone doesn't make sense. Someone has to name a price and someone else has to agree to pay it. Dealers are 50% to blame.

 

It's the nature of a free market. One dealer sees another make $5k on a six panel Kirby page, and he raises the prices on his six panel Kirby pages to $5k. Soon that's just the going rate for that type of page with all other types (splashes, covers, etc.) increasing proportionately. Does that make it right? That depends on who you ask. To the dealer making money on it, sure it's fair, he has to cover his expenses and turn a profit, not to mention he doesn't want to "leave money on the table." It's foolish and will limit his ability to restock. To the new collector with a limited budget, no it's not fair, he can't get the great items he desires. To the market in general, it's all supply and demand, a simple force of nature that's neither good nor bad but simply the way things are.

 

If collectors will pay high prices, dealers will charge high prices. If collectors have stop paying high prices (due to a failing economy or any of a million other possibilities) dealers will lower prices to a point that they can maintain an income.

 

Personally, I think prices are too high, but I keep paying them. If you check the thread on familiarity, you'll see that I openly admit to over paying for items that I have looked for for any significant amount of time. Most are at auction, so I bid all I can in ensure that I'll actually get the item. In some cases I've bought only the second example I've seen come to market. So as bad as I hate to say it, I'm feeding the very monster I complain about.

[batman_fan]

To date, I have no artwork I believe I over paid for. Actually I am quite happy with what I have spent on each and every page. For something I really like, price really has no meaning as long as I have enough to pay for it. Someone else may look at what I have paid and think I am nuts, but I am certainly okay with that. I do have severla panel pages I plan to sell in the near future but the funds will go right back into the art. I know one splash page sold on Heritage with the juice for $1k. I couldn't buy it at the time because of other purchases. I missed a second chance when it was on CLINK, but got a third chance and paid over $1600 for it. Sure cost me $600 more than I would have paid if I grabbed it off Heritage, but I still think I ended up with the better end of the deal. I do think the artwork prices can soften some but a lot is dependent on how fast the seller needs to flip the art. I think in a lot of cases, the seller may need to move something fast so they take a loss. I see these as great opportunities to get something at a bargin price. Same thing happen with comics all the time. Here is the page in question.

 

[westform]

Love the page.... a question. How do you know you could of had it at heritage for 1k or just over 1k. The high bidder could have thrown down a 2k bid for all you know. Just saying you can't have hindsight into these auctions. Many's the time I've won an auction for much less than my final bid.... Anyway, Enjoy!

[jjonahjameson1]

Wonderful topic.

 

I started collecting in 2001 and starting selling in 2002 to feed my art addiction.

 

In the time since I started, here's some of the things I've noticed that contributed to increased art prices (and this is by no means a complete list)

 

1. eBAY. shortly after 2001, a lot more people became aware of ebay through word of mouth, better advertising, etc. More collectors vying for the same page/splash/cover, etc contributes to higher prices

 

2. Increased popularity of original art. An increasing number of individuals started to gravitate towards original art and sold their comic book collections to finance their art purchases. Hey, more art collectors with more disposable income focused on original art = increased demand and upwards pressure on prices.

 

3. The US dollar has been in a steady decline against major world currencies, making North American original comic art sales relatively more affordable to collectors residing outside the US

 

4. Paypal. Love it or hate it, dealing with non-North American buyers/sellers was a big hassle prior to Paypal due to high Western Union fees, bank transfer fees, general lack of understanding thereof, and lack of trust with a non-visible party at the other end of the transaction.

 

5. High cost of European original art. If you think North American original comic art is expensive, well think again. Compared to prices of European original comic art, we still have it fairly cheap over here, but our prices are starting to catch up to prices of European comic art due to the aforementioned points

 

6. Comicartfans.com - a great site to display and sell artwork from around the world. Lots of unsolicited offers, links to hot ebay auctions and original art dealer sites

 

7. Art reps. Yep, they make the art available and organize and scan artist inventories and also include a mark-up for their commission in the price of the originals they sell. Usually more expensive than purchasing pages directly from the artist because you have to pay the middle man

 

8. Auction houses & built-in commission fees (up to 22%). 'Nuff said

 

9. Availability of an artists' work. Sometimes, artists decide to hang onto pages and/or no longer sell their pages, leading to a finite availability of thier artwork available for sale/purchase, thereby driving up prices. The most recent example I'm aware of is Romita Jr. Prices for his stuff have increased substantially recently

 

Please feel free to add to the list. I'd love to hear from others

[batman_fan]

Love the page.... a question. How do you know you could of had it at heritage for 1k or just over 1k. The high bidder could have thrown down a 2k bid for all you know. Just saying you can't have hindsight into these auctions. Many's the time I've won an auction for much less than my final bid.... Anyway, Enjoy!

 

You are 100% correct. Could have been someone who wanted it more than me and we would just drive the price up. I am not unhappy with the final outcome. I was actually flipping through my stuff today when I saw it (along with my favorite page I own )

[MedicAR]

I was discussing original art with a couple of other collectors at different times. On both occassions, prices for original art came up and both collectors stated that art prices have come to the point where even they couldn't afford things like they could just a short time ago.

 

Now these are veteran collectors with good-great incomes and impressive collections....

 

So it got me thinking about my own collecting goals and where I want to go. Being that I am not completly unhappy with my collection, I am not really "All set" either. There are artists of whom I would like to add or replace an example of their work, but not sure I will be able to do so.

 

My question is really a two part one :

 

Has original art prices become so insane that people are going to get out or just stop where they are in terms of pieces ?

 

The old cliche of : Are art prices due to take a dip ? - Not a crash, not by a long shot....But can they (prices) really continue to climb like they have been ?

 

*spoon*...I forgot to answer the true questions posed.

 

No, prices are high because there are collectors willing to pay them. Until that stops, the prices will continue to climb/hold at the high rates we see.

 

And yeah there will be a dip or at the very least a leveling off. It's just the way markets work. The grails (Ditko, Frazetta, Kirby) won't see much change from it, but the general market will. Don't take this as the Chicken Little effect that was mentioned earlier. The dip will be a short lived market adjustment, not a long term trend.

 

As far as your opening statments, I don't think any of us are "all set" with our collections. That's what drives us to look for bigger and better pieces. If we were completely satisfied, we'd be art hoarders, not art collectors!

[MedicAR]

To date, I have no artwork I believe I over paid for. Actually I am quite happy with what I have spent on each and every page. For something I really like, price really has no meaning as long as I have enough to pay for it. Someone else may look at what I have paid and think I am nuts, but I am certainly okay with that.

 

This is what I mean by "over paying." It's not too much for me (as long as I actually have the cash) but others within the hobby look at me like I'm crazy. I had the money to make the bid/purchase and got an item I am completely happy with at a price I'm okay with. "Over paid" is relative and simply any amount higher than expected within the market.

 

To me, anyway!

[Kevin76]

Sometimes you have to overpay to get what you want,but a few years after you've "overpaid" it becomes a bargain.

[MedicAR]

Sometimes you have to overpay to get what you want,but a few years after you've "overpaid" it becomes a bargain.

 

So true.....

[john72tex]

Yeh, I think I overpaid for this piece I won last night, but I really wanted it: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...p;rd=1&rd=1

[MedicAR]

Yeh, I think I overpaid for this piece I won last night, but I really wanted it: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...p;rd=1&rd=1

 

The heroes and the artist aren't my cup of tea, as I'm sure some of my tastes aren't to your liking.

 

I wouldn't have paid that much, but if you're happy, I'm happy for you!