CGC Census 08/27/2003 - another discussion of Hulk 181

[dam60]

Where are the "Defender " #10's above 9.4?... anyone?

Where are the "Marvel Team Up " #1's above 9.4?... anyone?

Where are the "Werewolf by Night" #32's above 9.4?... anyone?

Any other HTF book above 9.4 to talk about?

 

I tell you, I would love to have a nice Defenders #10. What a great book. I have a VG that I got for $3 (thanks Roger from the Time Machine) just because it is such a classic cover. When you think of titans colliding who better than Thor and Hulk! (my preference vs a Thing vs. Hulk)

 

DAM

[joe_collector]

Where are they? I deal with some of the largest dealers in the country, and they can't find any. Just wondering where these Brigadoon-esque Flying Dutchman piles and piles of Hulk 181 are.

 

As I have stated before (and you know) I'm referring to the collections I am familiar with, which are single-owners who have accumulated 25+ HG copies of Hulk 181 over the years.

 

As for why they're not selling, I honestly believe the thrill in owning and tracking these comics is worth more to them, as they're not exactly starving in the first place.

[Foolkiller]

I bought a CGC 9.0 Defenders 10 for $25 last year... broke it out of the slab and love it for that classic cover.

 

Marvel Team Up #1 seems to be a very difficult book to find in 9.4 or better... is there any reason for this? thoughts? is it really that hard to find?

[dolphinsrwj]

another book that i cant understand why it has not got a 9.8 yet is amaz spidey#202.last time i looked there were over 50 copies graded but no 9.8s.

[valiantman]

another book that i cant understand why it has not got a 9.8 yet is amaz spidey#202.last time i looked there were over 50 copies graded but no 9.8s.

It's only a matter of time... 30% of all graded copies are already 9.6,

and 60% are 9.4 or better. I'd bet there will be 2 or 3 in 9.8 by the

time 100 have been graded.

 

[BronzeBruce13]

Where are they? I deal with some of the largest dealers in the country, and they can't find any. Just wondering where these Brigadoon-esque Flying Dutchman piles and piles of Hulk 181 are.

 

As I have stated before (and you know) I'm referring to the collections I am familiar with, which are single-owners who have accumulated 25+ HG copies of Hulk 181 over the years.

 

As for why they're not selling, I honestly believe the thrill in owning and tracking these comics is worth more to them, as they're not exactly starving in the first place.

 

 

I may have misunderstood you in prior discussions, but I came away with the impression you meant numbers well in excess of these amounts overall. Even several (3-5?) collectors with 25+ HG copies (which still may translate into 9.4 or less for the most part) is not nearly as monumental as what I thought you were suggesting in other threads. Obviously, others besides your friends must have multiples too, but I have not caught wind of any significant stashes either besides that one small lot I mentioned in the other bronze thread. Of course, I don't make the rounds like a dealer, but I do try to pick their brains. What Dan (donut) relayed of his experiences are typical of what I've heard from others too. No one had any first-hand knowledge of any..so far.

 

 

Your friends are very unique if you ask me. I'm not doubting your word Vince, please understand, but as I brought up in the other thread (excerpt below in italics), I have to believe that behavior (restaint) is pretty uncommon?... isn't it? I have a difficult time accepting there are many others out there that are similar to your friends. If there are other large HG stashes, there must be another type of source/group besides the "wealthy, restrained single-owner hoarder" What would their profile be?

 

• I make no judgments on those that are sitting on multiples, are well-off financially, and thus don't "have to" bring their books to market as suggested. Something about this makes little sense to me though if I consider it on a large scale. Its been suggested that those with money don't often let great financial opportunities pass regardless of their wealth. Using Vince's friends as an example in this case... we can assume they are well aware of his market savvy and fully informed of his predictions of the future collapse of bronze prices. That said, its a given that they realize that opportunity to "cash in" is a limited window of opportunity. So... not to select the (5-10) best copies of a valuable key and submit to CGC and sell while the door is wide open, while you believe it will be permanently shut afterwards... is hard to accept. Maybe some (like Vince) would not submit for whatever reasons, but surely some would want to "cash in" despite their wealth... I would think? Investment gains are not lost upon the wealthy. Also, keep in mind that going back 6 months the census was not updated very often and it would be possible to submit and sell off 5-10 copies of major keys without revealing your hand via the census.

 

( Other Hulk 181 thread in Bronze if anyone even cares anymore

 

I keep saying I'll stop talking Hulk 181, but no on else will ...

Can we start a new thread about other bronze keys and theories as to their abundance or scarcity. I found that discussion "fresh" ..and pretty cool so far?

[FlyingDonut]

Where are they? I deal with some of the largest dealers in the country, and they can't find any. Just wondering where these Brigadoon-esque Flying Dutchman piles and piles of Hulk 181 are.

 

As I have stated before (and you know) I'm referring to the collections I am familiar with, which are single-owners who have accumulated 25+ HG copies of Hulk 181 over the years.

 

As for why they're not selling, I honestly believe the thrill in owning and tracking these comics is worth more to them, as they're not exactly starving in the first place.

 

They may have 9.4s, but I doubt they have 9.8s. The deep red cover colors on good Hulk 181s will make it very difficult for exceptionally high grade copies to surface.

 

This does bring out an interesting point - I think Hulk 181 in 9.4 is going to be an exceptionally bad purchase, as there may be a very high number of them showing up.

This

[valiantman]

This does bring out an interesting point - I think Hulk 181 in 9.4 is going to be an exceptionally bad purchase, as there may be a very high number of them showing up.

 

Interesting point... Bronze Age 9.4s may be treated the same way as Silver 9.2s.

And, of course, Modern Age 9.6s may also be "bad calls" in the long run.

 

Time to change strategies?

[joe_collector]

Your friends are very unique if you ask me.

 

Here's something to chew on. You're looking at a guy sitting on multiple Wayne Gretzky rookies (among other 70's keys), a few of which are perfectly centered (rare) and candidates for 9 and higher. Now why would someone sit on this sort of thing, especially since I bought these as a kid?

 

My wife says it best whenever I mention selling off my old junk:

 

"Why? Do you really need the money?"

[joe_collector]

I may have misunderstood you in prior discussions, but I came away with the impression you meant numbers well in excess of these amounts overall.

 

You're making a habit of this bub!

 

Here's a hint about the English language. If I state that I'm tall, and then later that I have blue eyes, the part about me being tall still stands, get it?

 

You asked me before about Hulk 181 hoardes and I told you during my con-days, I knew dealers with stacks of the stuff, and also many specu-llectors who saw the sudden rise in prices and jumped on the bandwagon. The comic was everywhere at shows in the 80's and has been hoarded since the 70's.

 

I had HS friends who bought lots of comics, and even though they had their share of ROM 1 stockpiles, the keys like Hulk 181, GS X-Men 1 and X-Men 94 were always welcome. I don't communicate with these guys much, but I did email back with one who's in AZ a while back and he's still got all his cards and comics.

 

This is Point 1, which I didn't repeat in my previous message.

 

At the present time, I personally know of several collectors here (friends) who have collections of 25+ issues of HG Hulk 181 in what they feel is NM. I've seen some issues and just extrapolating across North America, I wouldn't want to be heavily vested in Hulk 181 9.2 or 9.4 issues. CGC 9.6 and 9.8 are a [!@#%^&^]-shoot, so who really knows how many will slide out in CGC form, but the HG supply is definitely there.

 

That is Point 2, which does not negate Point 1, but is something I am 110% certain of and use a bit more often on here.

[supapimp]

vince, will you PLEASE stop telling people how many GSX 1's, X-MEN 94's, and HULKIE 181's i got.

[joe_collector]

vince, will you PLEASE stop telling people how many GSX 1's, X-MEN 94's, and HULKIE 181's i got.

 

I can't help it, they made me do it.

 

On a serious note, I had better shut up on this, as the Census numbers alone will be hard enough on the speculators.

[drbanner]

Your friends are very unique if you ask me.

 

Yeah, since day one I've thought it's pretty weird how all CI's buddies share his exact viewpoints, have hoards of bronze-age back issues, have an intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the back-issue comic market (just like Joe!), but don't ever post here, and apparently aren't involved in ebay either as the rather small network of collectors and dealers we all know haven't ever really done business with him...uh, I mean them?

 

And that's not even mentioning the rather unique place where Joe works! How weird would it be to work somewhere where everyone agrees with your taste in movies, and where there are even real-life CGC "specs" with "high grade late 60's and early 70's Spideys and X-men" they want to dump so they turn to you for advice? That would be real ironic for most people, but unfortunately, it doesn't appear they've ever heard of these boards...and Joe was just too mean to help them out by telling them about this place.

 

I guess that's life in the big city (or, life in "The World According to Joe")!

[Mister_Comics]

I know five other guys that each have HULK 181 and they don't plan on slabbing. Easy 9.4's each. I may be the only one in the bunch that may have his slabbed. Just my 2 cents.

 

Back to a CENSUS question..

 

Any .5's submitted since the last update? Which book(s)?

 

 

[joe_collector]

Yeah, since day one I've thought it's pretty weird how all CI's buddies share his exact viewpoints, have hoards of bronze-age back issues, have an intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the back-issue comic market (just like Joe!), but don't ever post here, and apparently aren't involved in ebay either as the rather small network of collectors and dealers we all know haven't ever really done business with him...uh, I mean them?

 

Other than your rather-obvious embellishments and inaccuracies to what I wrote, do you have a circle of friends who all DO NOT share your interests?

 

If so, you're even weirder than I thought.

 

50 bucks banner is sitting in a nice set of NM Hulk 181's....

[valiantman]

Back to a CENSUS question..

Any .5's submitted since the last update? Which book(s)?

Heheh... the download is about 20% done...

so I'll let you know in a couple days.

 

It's ok if we're "all about Hulk 181" for now... I've renamed this thread.

[BronzeBruce13]

Your friends are very unique if you ask me.

 

Here's something to chew on. You're looking at a guy sitting on multiple Wayne Gretzky rookies (among other 70's keys), a few of which are perfectly centered (rare) and candidates for 9 and higher. Now why would someone sit on this sort of thing, especially since I bought these as a kid?

 

My wife says it best whenever I mention selling off my old junk:

 

"Why? Do you really need the money?"

 

 

I'm chewin' and I understand your point Vince... but I believe you to be "unique" as well tovarich.

 

Not that I know the sports cards market from a playing deck... but in your example (Wayne Gretzky rookies cards...) isn't that a collectible whose future and value are very stable due to limited availability ("true scarcity")?

 

The real question would be if you joined a Sports Card Forum and there was a convincing guy named "sportscard investor" or "joecard collector" who spoke of first hand knowledge of hundreds of similar cards that may be coming to market soon... "then would you hold"? Assuming you are an anomaly (actually accepting since I believe you have a minihoard of HG GS 1's)... the next real question would be.. "would MOST people pass on the opportunity while faced with the door possibly shutting in a similar circumstance?"

 

That's what I have trouble relating to, especially if the person has multiples. You could keep 2-3 and still sell a few. If you only had one, that may be different. I'm trying to understand and relate to the thought process not bust your nuts.

 

 

 

[joe_collector]

You could keep 2-3 and still sell a few. If you only had one, that may be different. I'm trying to understand and relate to the thought process not bust your nuts.

 

Here's how I see it, and I know a few buds who feel the same way.

 

When I was younger I lost a serious amount of comics, and several of my friends have the same experience, such as one guy who sold off some to buy a car (or like you, for education expenses) and kind of regrets it, especially when money is more available. This kind of experience can be a powerful motivator and it also makes one careful of future deals.

 

Since I really don't need the cash, I wonder if I were to sell them off, would I regret it, and then have to spend more to get the cards back?

 

By not selling them, I never have to worry.

[BronzeBruce13]

You're making a habit of this bub!

Here's a hint about the English language. If I state that I'm tall, and then later that I have blue eyes, the part about me being tall still stands, get it?

 

 

"bub" that's a first... and it works when I'm looking at your avatar!

 

I'm not trying to confuse the issue...

I thought that you indicated first-hand knowledge of more than your direct friends copies? I suppose then I'm mistakenly grouping in the "convention observations" into the mix when we really don't have any indication that they are a HG stashes still...

[joe_collector]

One more time:

 

I have knowledge of such hoardes, but since it's quite obvious that certain people on here take me to task for the slightest comment, I tend to concentrate on the "close at hand" examples.

 

Even so, Banner and his bum buddies are working overtime.