New York Comic Show Pics

[supapimp]

do tell vince, do tell.

[ninanina]

Gotta love it when dealers price their raw stuff at CGC prices.

 

yes, it's quite frustrating, maybe they feel they don't want to lose out on $$$, but then why not just get them slabbed? the market cannot sustain these prices, the market will correct itself.

 

Never been to a con before and I do want to go. But I'll have to wait for the dealers to come back to reality. (Hope it's soon)

[blazingbob]

TO ALL

Please define "reality" What should I price books at so you will spend lots of money or start buying runs in different grades? Can somebody please tell me that because quite frankly comments about dealers pricing stuff too high just isn't cutting it anymore. And my frustration on this is because it starts a whole new rambling of complaints of which never results in the bottom line - You spending more $$$$.

 

Here are the chain of events that I see comin

 

If the price is too low, there must be something wrong with it.

 

If it's not CGC graded, there must be something wrong with it.

 

It's probably overgraded, why would he give me such a great deal.

 

It's probably restored, why would he give me such a great deal.

 

I'd never sell the book this cheap, he must have ripped off some buyer to get it - Moral ramification threads to follow.

 

I can find it on ebay cheaper, besides everybody knows that grading on ebay is better than yours anyway.

 

Why won't he knock 25 - 50% off the price, other dealers I know do this. Yeah and most dealers that knock 50% off have the book price 50% higher than the grade, next result you pay the price he would have originally marked it at.

 

 

 

 

[Darthdiesel]

 

Damned if you do, damned...period

[Foolkiller]

Bob:

 

I don't know what "reality" is or isn't with regards to pricing, especially on high grade (9.4 and better) because on those books, I don't see or know well enough the reality of the market or who the books are readily available to be sold to.

 

Since I don't consider myself even in the realm of big spenders, and I prefer to buy raws that are 8.0-9.2 (sometimes lower or higher), I don't think I'm really qualified to answer on most of your "chain". I think I'd spend more money at your table if I could afford it... but $2-400 at a show is enough for me to spend on books.

 

On the other hand, let me just comment on the discount structure you mentioned. If books are below Fine, and depending on the rarity and/or key nature of the book, I don't think it's unrealistic to expect a heavy discount on those books. For instance, if we're talking silver/bronze Marvels or DC's that are common in those grades, why buy from any dealer who stickers at guide and then only gives 20% when on ebay you can purchase the books in low grade much cheaper. Grading becomes less of an issue on ebay, and most of the bigger dealers sell quite a bit of low/mid grade stuff on ebay, so you can find it from someone reputable. I understand your point concerning the guys who mark up the price, then give a 50% discount so you're really buying at guide, and that's a legit claim. But there are some great finds out there, and I think with ebay, many buyers just have the attitude now that eventually they can find it cheaper. As I mentioned, there's a dealer who sets up who has the best $1 stock and 50% off boxes with quality material that's genuinely discounted in most instances. So, although there's not a huge selection of Silver Age at great prices, there were some great deals... A VF Batman 300 for $7.50 is a good deal to me.

 

From personal experience, I generally accept your pricing structure... you give 15% off your raw books. I know that going in. If I purchased $500 or $1000 worth of books, I'm sure you'd do better. Generally, you've even rounded off so the discount is more like 20%. I think it's fair, and I'm not one to sit there and complain and haggle, because I think your grading is spot on... But the problem is, there are some major dealers who have the books stickered at guide, but the grades are off, and that's where negotiation has to be part of the process.

 

I just think that overall Bob, there's an attitude out there which just says with ebay now, if I wait, i can get it cheaper. That's true sometimes and not others. I'll give you an example: Motor City had a raw Batman 232 for $375. That seems very high. I know the book is hot right now and in high demand, but triple guide for a raw copy? That doesn't seem to be in line with the market. Plus, the book more of a NM- than NM, so that makes it tougher too. I did buy another copy from them, for $40, and was much happier in relation to the money I spent. Now... people see the prices of raw and slabbed books on ebay and see they can get it cheaper, and I think it develops a mentality where people just assume it's available if you just hold out. For some, it's apparently working. I prefer buying the books live and seeing the book in my hand, but I hear about examples all the time of people buying their raw books cheap and their great deals, this mindset contributes to looking at dealers stock and saying, I can get the book cheaper.

 

Bottom line: My problem is that the raw market has turned into pricing the raw books up at CGC prices, and the grades don't match up a lot of times. I don't address that to you at all... but I'm not sure you realize how your accurate grading is not the norm, but the exception.

[jonnydouble]

Please don't take a blanket statement too hard Bob, for they never cover all people or all circumstances, and I don't think anyone was insinuating that your prices are out of reality......... HOWEVER...There are quite a number of dealers out there who have recently put quite ridiculous pricing in effect on raw books that just make your mind spin....it's one thing to pay high multiples for a 9.4-9.8 book, but it's insanity to pay 5 or 6 times nm guide for a raw book that could come back 9.4....could come back 8.5....and you can't deny that this isn't becoming all the more common at shows,...I don't want to mention any names.... cough, cougharleyyeecough, cough,...but these few bad apples shall we say, cough, coughchrisfosscough, cough are IMHBWO taking advantage of people by even putting a sticker this high on a raw book....two or three years ago this would never fly cough,coughcoughchuckrozanskicough,cough,cough but nowadays it's happening more and more.......It reminds me of the price gouging that goes on when there is an impending or post disaster situation , like the sudden jump in price for snow blowers after a heavy blizzard ........As the supply of high quality raw books gets smaller and smaller the multiple gets higher and higher....andyou can't chalk it up to a supply and demand economic equation because these are NOT graded books!!!,...If dealers want to charge 5x guide for a book let them send it away and pay the price for the grade ......and please excuse my coughing fits,..I'm getting over a bad cold.

 

J.D.

[blazingbob]

I would definitely agree with the cough cough's, I am finding a LOT of dealers are getting incredibly lazy (let's just grade the cover NM) and forget the rest shall we? But what does drive me crazy is one other forum comment - "All the dealers brought the same stuff". Really? Is my stock really the same? Have you looked? I know I've said this before but I cannot stock the 100 hottest books in NM for under guide. I wish I could. I'm expected to have a large selection and carry a big inventory but people do some work. And unfortunately Ebay causes a lot of these conversations

 

Collector - Bob, can you just point me to the NM+ stuff that I don't have to look too hard for.

 

Collector - I know this is a tough book and should sell for $150 but can you do $100?

 

Collector - What, you paid $85 for it, Isn't $15 enough of a profit for you?

 

Collector - What, I'm unreasonable, well so are you for charging over guide.

 

Collector - You're a dealer, you should have paid 40-50% of guide , Why you didn't rip them off?

 

Bob - Why would I do that, besides Joe Collector would strike me down and I sleep better at night.

 

 

 

[Foolkiller]

Bob:

Your inventory, Ted's inventory and one or two others do tend to get new books... pretty often. I'm sure Motor City does too, I just don't look unless I can't find the book anywhere else. But the majority of dealers did appear to have the same stock, or at least many of the same books they usually are carrying around.

 

I think you believe that most of the comments about the big apple encompassed you, but to be honest, most of those dealers I saw there had some over priced raw and cgc books... everyone? no, there were some deals to be had in the room, but far too often there is a bad trend developing on the raw high grade books.

 

I would be curious as to how everyone else feels about the mid/low grade price structure...? It is difficult to convince people to buy mid/low grades without a substantial discount, and I've found this to be the case in reading some of the market reports.

 

 

[blazingbob]

What I am finding that over the years everybody wants to know what is "new". And I told Ted that I was going to come up with the Comic Book Felt up factor. How many times has it been handled, taken out of the bag, cover opened to expose it's pages, was it roughly or gently handled.

 

Felt up factors would go like this

 

Still a virgin - only handled by me and the original owner

 

Just felt up

 

Got to third base

 

Rounding home

 

Home run

 

Been around the block

 

Total Whore - This book has been felt up so much it charges

[Foolkiller]

I guess "new" is the wrong word... how about books we looked in your boxes for at the last show that weren't there, and that you've recently acquired... from somewhere.

 

 

[joe_collector]

Hey Bob, I really think you're paying for the transgressions of others in this case, so don't take the comments too seriously.

[garthgantu]

It does seem as though a fair percentage of dealers at shows are taking the attitude "I'm not leaving any more $ on the table, dammit!" By this I mean that they know the Batman 232 they've got in NM-/NM will fetch 2-3x guide if it comes back a NM 9.4, and they're confident in their own ability to appraise the condition of high grade books, so they don't feel they need to get the book slabbed in order to "know" its worth.

 

But the average collector doesn't think this way. First, they (rightly) assume that most dealers are overgrading at least slightly - and slight overgrading on many books is the difference between a good deal and overpaying, obviously.

 

Second, the average collector (rightly) assumes that he/she *doesn't* know how to grade, at least not to within .2 on the CGC scale.

 

Third, eBay will quickly give you (you the collector, not you the dealer) the impression that "everything's on sale, all the time, in all grades." This is fallacy, of course, but unless you really monitor the ending prices on a lot of stuff, it's easy to kid yourself into thinking that everything goes for less than guide on eBay, even the "good stuff."

 

I looooove buying at shows - the convenience, the security, the instant gratification, it's all good. I don't even mind paying 80-100% of guide on fairly high grade stuff, since I understand that the dealer has costs involved in being at the show, and I'm confident in my ability to grade. Still, paying 3x guide for a raw Batman 232 in "high grade" is rather crazy, since you'd have to be channeling Steve Borock to be certain that the book will in fact come back a NM- 9.2 / NM 9.4.

[ninanina]

TO ALL

Please define "reality" What should I price books at so you will spend lots of money or start buying runs in different grades? Can somebody please tell me that because quite frankly comments about dealers pricing stuff too high just isn't cutting it anymore. And my frustration on this is because it starts a whole new rambling of complaints of which never results in the bottom line - You spending more $$$$.

 

Here are the chain of events that I see comin

 

If the price is too low, there must be something wrong with it.

 

If it's not CGC graded, there must be something wrong with it.

 

It's probably overgraded, why would he give me such a great deal.

 

It's probably restored, why would he give me such a great deal.

 

I'd never sell the book this cheap, he must have ripped off some buyer to get it - Moral ramification threads to follow.

 

I can find it on ebay cheaper, besides everybody knows that grading on ebay is better than yours anyway.

 

Why won't he knock 25 - 50% off the price, other dealers I know do this. Yeah and most dealers that knock 50% off have the book price 50% higher than the grade, next result you pay the price he would have originally marked it at.

 

 

 

 

Wow, you picked the perfect time to ask what "reality" is on account of the fact I went to a "collectables" show here in Winnipeg on Sunday and actually found a comic I was looking for the last 3 years. A seller had a CGC Daredevil 7 F/VF for sale. When I asked him what he wanted for it, he immediately said he was thinking of selling it on e-bay. I acted like I didn't care by simply saying "so you don't want to sell it"?

 

I really wanted this comic and was willing to pay the going rate which I feel was somewhere in the neighborhood of around $250.00 US.(Basing that on a raw "VF" which recently sold for $300.00 on e-bay)

 

When he said $150.00 Canadian, I thought about it. (Didn't want to seem too over-anxious) Naturally I bought it. I really don't think any of the sellers in any of the cons anywhere would have sold this comic that cheap.

 

Price too low,but nothing wrong with it as it was CGC'd.

It was CGC graded, so again, nothing wrong with it.

Not over-graded (CGC'd - and I know better) but did get a great deal anyway.

It's not restored (again CGC'd) but still got a good deal.

I'd never sell a book this cheap - must have ripped off a buyer? Maybe...but he seemed like a real nice guy and said he was the original owner.

 

I was positively stunned to have found this comic there. There were after all only a few dealers there with maybe a total of about 20 long boxes in the whole show (mostly moderns). Probably only about 5 or 600 Silver Age comics in the whole place.

 

I've learned my lesson and will be attending all the local "collectables" shows here in Winnipeg. Ya' never know what your gonna get!

 

That's reality.

[jkrk]

here's my slant. I'm in complete agreement with Bob on this one. It's his books. He prices the books wherever he wants. It's his books. If he doesn't want to offer discounts that's OK. It's his books. If he prices raw at CGC prices. That's OK.

It's his books. If he doesn't sell he'll make adjustments in his pricing or put the books away. If buyers continue to pay the dealers prices there is no reason for them to discount. They are not your friend. Nor should he be. THey wish to make their profit margin and deserves it. The market price is based on supply and demand and that will determine the pricing. If buyers decide to pay more for raw books than CGC books the dealers will hold the price up, thank you politely, and some will even supply a bag. If buyers wish to pay 20 x guide for a 9.6 I don't blame the seller.

The sellers will simply evaluate the market and price accordingly. It doen't matter what they paid for the book. They should ask for the same price selling price if they paid $100 or $200 for the book. The selling price will simply be a function of how motivated the seller is to raise cash and how anxious the buyers are to pay the asking price..

[fantastic_four]

They are not your friend. Nor should he be.

 

HOW UNFRIENDLY!!!

[joe_collector]

here's my slant. I'm in complete agreement with Bob on this one. It's his books. He prices the books wherever he wants. It's his books. If he doesn't want to offer discounts that's OK. It's his books. If he prices raw at CGC prices. That's OK. It's his books.

 

Type the same thing, only change the sentences to reflect MONEY rather than BOOKS, and you'd have the buyer stance.

 

It takes two to tango.

[Bugaboo-migration]

here's my slant. I'm in complete agreement with Bob on this one. It's his books. He prices the books wherever he wants. It's his books. If he doesn't want to offer discounts that's OK. It's his books. If he prices raw at CGC prices. That's OK. It's his books.

 

Type the same thing, only change the sentences to reflect MONEY rather than BOOKS, and you'd have the buyer stance.

here's my slant. I'm in complete agreement with Bob on this one. It's his money. He prices the money wherever he wants. It's his money. If he doesn't want to offer discounts that's OK. It's his money. If he prices raw at CGC prices. That's OK. It's his money.

 

 

[joe_collector]

Type the same thing, only change the sentences to reflect MONEY rather than BOOKS, and you'd have the buyer stance.

here's my slant. I'm in complete agreement with Bob on this one. It's his money. He prices the money wherever he wants. It's his money. If he doesn't want to offer discounts that's OK. It's his money. If he prices raw at CGC prices. That's OK. It's his money.

 

Change the SENTENCES, not just the single WORD.

 

But you knew that. Trolls always know.

[Bugaboo-migration]

[jkrk]

 

"Type the same thing, only change the sentences to reflect MONEY rather than BOOKS, and you'd have the buyer stance.

 

It takes two to tango".

 

Exactly. Wait until the market turns from a sellers market to a buyers market. The burden will shift.