lou_fine

The second copy with the big stains on the back cover and tear at the staple is probably a 7.0 or 7.5. Can you not see those defects? I mean it's pretty clear which is the nicer copy, although the second one looks great before you turn it over. But you can't just ignore glaring defects. The only problem I see with playing this game is that it's not being played on a level playing field. If this exact same copy here had not been submitted as part of the Pormise Collection pedigree set of books with its known and now seemingly acceptable signature defects, and simply submitted as a random HG GA book by a collector, I highly doubt it would come back encased in a CGC 9.2 holder. Especially since I believe the graders would nit pick and hit the grade of the book for the clearly visible chips along the top edge of the cover, the huge dust shadow running down the entire length of the back cover, not too sure about the staple area from just a scan, and the large writing on the front cover. Just like you yourself said in your above post, "Can you not see those defects...........you can't just ignore glaring defects." .

Well, from some of the scans which other boardies have been posting along with some of the commentary here, it would appear that the answer to your question as posted above should be pretty obvious. Then again, since a picture is worth a thousand words, I am quite sure that CGC is conducting their usual due diligence on all of the books and applying their grading whip accordingly; as follows: The grading whip for the Promise Collection books: And the one for the random odd HG books from no name small time collectors like you and me:

Well, for comparison purposes for @buttock sake, does the above 'Tec 152 appear to be a softly graded CGC 8.5 book with the staple, spine and off-centering issues on this book here, especially when compared to this equivalent graded book below with the same PQ from a full 10 years earlier way back in 1939: And since we are always worried about the back cover defects, here's what we can see in terms of the back cover:

Hey @lou_fine sorry but after 7 Ales and 5 Srewball peanut butter shots I don't understand what your saying No worries as I was just referring to all of the seemingly overgraded scans of books from the Promise Collection which some of the boardies are pointing out in the "They're Still Out There" thread on the GA boards here, and yet have still not found a scan of a single possibly undergraded book from this partcuar collection so far:

If I had gotten this collection imagine how much nothing you would be seeing. Same here and I guess this is why the ownership at CCG is certainly happy that collectors hoarders like you and me didn't find this collection. Especially in a vertically integrated business environment like theirs where all of their direct and indirect linked corporate interests can enjoy the fun and benefits of mutual and passionate back scratching that must be taking place between all of the parties involved.

What an awfully judgemental statement. Yeah, my bad here as I might not have stated this in the most clear and diplomatic way like @Mmehdy when he said that all complaints about the grading of the book will be forgotten in the heat of the auction. I was also referring more to the big new money that Mitch was alluding to as coming from outside the hobby just for this collection, as I am 100% certain that long time collectors like you and some of the other boardies here with not only years, but decades of collecting experience will indeed know all the attributes of the comics before bidding big dollars on it. Most likely not so much for the newbies with the deep pocket who are thinking about moving in for the first time just for some of these books from the Promise Collection here, as I am sure that they will not be as aware of the minute and tiny defects on the comic books themselves, and will more than likely resort simply on the CGC grade to make their bids. Although successful people with lots of money to throw around are also usually very fast learners, I somehow don't think they are fast enough to learn about the intricacies and finer details of the whole grading game within a couple of short months before these books hit the auction block.

I don't know if any of them are possibly undergraded, because as I have already stated many times here before that you cannot accurately grade a book from just a scan, as you would need to have the actual book in hand to do a proper assessment. It's just that although it's impossible to tell with any degree of confidence if a particular book is undergraded, this is not necessarily quite as impossible in the case of books that might possibly be overgraded based upon clear and obvious visible defects which you can see from scans. It's just that so far all of the questionable examples being posted here by various boardies have all been examples of seemingly overgraded books from the Promise Collection, with the only examples of seemingly undergraded books being ones NOT from the Promise Collection. Because if the grading for this collection here is truly impartial, from a pure statistical point of view, we should also be able to see some clearly examples of possibly undergraded books from this collection here. So, here's another opportunity for you to show us some examples of books from this Promise Collection that you feel may possibly be undergraded based upon their scans, since nobody else has so far to this point in time. It should be relatively easy for you to do this since from your post above, you leave the impression that grading is more of an exact perfect science as opposed to being a subjective opinion at a particular point in time. Especially since I don't remember ever mentioning seeing undergraded books in the nosebleed condition levels that you are referring to because the differences between a CGC 9.6 to a CGC 9.8 or a CGC 9.8 to a CGC 9.9 are just so minute and minisucle that this is where you really DO need to have the actual book in hand to discern any differences, as you certainly cannot do this from just a scan. The only time that I remember mentioning SEEMINGLY undergraded books from just looking at a scan have been in the grade ranges of CGC 6.5 through to CGC 9.0, and then and only then in comparison to equivalent graded books with more clearly visible defects on them.

It would be greatly appreciated by some of us boardies here if you could please hop over to the Promise Collection thread and show us some examples of books from that collection that you believe have been seemingly undergraded from their front cover scans, as nobody has been able to post any to this point in time so far.

On the other hand, is it possible that if this collection was being auctioned off by either CC or CL, imagine how many fewer CGC 9.8's we would be seeing?

Although I've seen this same type of sentiment from many of the boardies here, it actually doesn't seem to make much financial sense from a supply and demand point of view. I would tend to think that GA prices might possibly just be trending lower short term if you are trying to sell books at a time when others are also trying to sell their books in order to raise monies to acquire books from this Promise Colllection. Being more of a pure collector, I would tend to buy books either from current funds that I already have available or from funds that I could raise from other investments outside of the GA comic books.

No sorry, my bad as I was referring to the fact that the Promise Copy of Planet 38 being a CGC 9.8 graded copy would be a book that I could never afford or dream of ever purchasing. The raw copy which I pictured in my post above (or seen below) is a copy that I hope to be able to obtain one day as I think it presents really nicely prior to it being graded almost 15 years ago, which turned out to be either a CGC 6.5 or a CGC 7.0 graded copy. Most likely the former if memory serves me correctly. Just wish we could see some similar type seemingly undergraded copies of books from this Promise Collection, but I guess it is what it is when it comes to this particular pedigree collection here.

Well, if you are referring to specific and individual next highest graded copies of books as per your example, then I would tend to agree with you. Then again, how can you really tell for sure if you haven't place your then highest graded copy up for actual sale to see what the market will bear? It's quite possible that the prices will be high enough for these copies here since they are coming from a special pedigree, that they just might bring prices on your next highest copy even higher going forward. Especially if you was not planning to sell your then highest graded copies anytime soon anyways. I was really talking about the GA market more in general, as opposed to just the nosebleed highest graded copies portion of the marketplace. If you take a look at what's happening with some of the BA and CA keys like Hulk 181, Spidey 129, GSXM 1, etc., the mere fact that we are seeing record setting prices being set on some of the highest graded copies are not resulting in a sinking of the slightly lower graded copies. Heck, just take a look at the auction results for the seconded highest graded copies of TMNT 1 as they are certainly not sinking, but rather soaring into the stratosphere as more copies come into the marketplace. I would tend to agree with @GreatCaesarsGhost sentiments below in that I strongly believe this auction of the Promise Collection books will serve to shine a much bigger light onto the GA portion of our comic book marketplace, and as a result, will only be a huge positive on prices of GA books (in general) going forward:

OMG....WTF.......I just checked my basement and some frigging no good thief must have broken in and absconded with some 5,000 odd books from my personal comic book collection here. Checked further and thank God they didn't get around to digging further down and finding the real good stuff. I so wish!!!

My observation is still the same as it was a couple of days ago from my post above.................why have there still been NO EXAMPLES of undergraded books from the Promise Collection to date so far as I am still waiting with bated breath. Totally agree that continual resubs of the same book will eventually demolish the law of averages over time, but this is clearly not the case here as this is a new OO collection which is being graded and slabbed for the first time. So, with an independent and truly impartial grading system in place, it would only stand to reason that it would be statistically impossible to see several examples of overgraded books, but yet not a single example to date of a seemingly undergraded book to date so far. We can certainly find and see many examples of seemingly undergraded books from outside this collection, but from the Promise Collection here.......nada!!! Which then leads me to think about all of the talk of potential conflict of interest on the boards here about 10 years ago. Of course, it should be pointed out that what some see as potential conflict of interest are actually viewed more by growing and expanding corporations as business synergies just waiting to be unlocked, especially in a business which appears to be very much vertically integrated either directly or indirectly. So, maybe what we are witnessing here is "the powers that be" are also viewing this Promise Collection as an once in a lifetime generational opportunity and are simply going all out and unlocking their business synergies to the max here.

Sad to say, but probably very true, especially if you send some of these books back in as a straight "raw submission" without the pedigree designation. As for the actual books themselves, potential bidders that are actually looking at the books inside the slabs are probably the bottom feeders and very welcome to join in on the auction as they tend to generate a lot of the hype for the books. In the final stetches of the game though, they are usually irrelevant in the equation as the only thing that matters in the end to the deep pocketed bidders and the whales is that big big number on the top left hand corner of the slab and they couldn't care less about the visual attributes of the underlying book itself.

I mean is the top left corner or entire right edge of a book really that important to the grading anyway? Have you ever considered the possibility that for the grading of the Promise Collection here, the corners, edges, and spines of these books have been pre-emptively deemed to be above the pay grade of the CGC graders themselves?

Yes indeed, as I've always loved the Planet 38 with the beautiful green cover, even though on most copies they do tend to look a bit faded. Thnak God I am not an OCD driven label chaser addict as I highly doubt that I would ever be able to afford the Promise Copy of Planet 38 since it's now been slabbed as the single highest graded copy at CGC 9.8, and that big big number regardless of the book itself should really catapult this copy right into the stratosphere from a pricing point of view. Hence as for me, still holding out hope (albeit fading and starting to lose a bit of interest) that I might one day be able to obtain this copy of Planet 38 here since it should HOPEFULLY come at a much lower price point, considering that it's a full 8 or 9 condition grading levels below the Promise Copy, but still presents nicely relative to its assigned seemingly tight tight CGC grade: Of course, as they say, you can never really grade a book from a scan, as opposed to having the actual book in hand. Although this is especially true for a book that appears to be tightly graded or even undergraded, I think this argument holds a lot less water when it comes to books that appears to be overgraded from a strict visual point of view which some from the Promise Collection would clearly appear to be.

They do say "shipped" and not delivered ... so if you add 1 week for the check to arrive and then 1 week for the package to arrive, it can be as much as 5 weeks. GOD BLESS.... To date so far, I've never ever had a problem with them as my order usually gets shipped by the end of the first week, and from there it takes only 2 days since everything gets done by FedEx as it is pretty much the same price as USPS for Int'l delivery. Exellent communication as FedEx sends you an email message when the shipping documents have been prepared by CC, another email when it gets picked up stating epxected date of delivery, a third email the day before delivery, an email the morning of the delivery, and finally a follow-up email confirming actual delivery.

Depends if CGC is going through a tight grading period or a loose grading period, or maybe also a case of how much clout you have. Especially since I find their grading can be kind of all over the place when it comes to the GA books, as their acceptable grading margin of error would appear to be a whole lot wider than on the newer books.

Not so much for the buyers of some of these books, but most definitely very very promising for the consignor of the OO collection here.

Looks like they've got the first 3 issues of the Seven Seas run up on deck already, but still missing the key SS 4 and SS 6 for now: https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/seven-seas-comics-3-the-promise-collection-pedigree-universal-phoenix-feature-1947-cgc-nm-96-off-white-to-white-pages/p/7244-175144.s?ic16=ViewItem-BrowseTabs-Auction-Preview-SearchResults-120115&lotPosition=2|0# Highest graded copy of this Seven Seas 3 by a long shot at CGC 9.6, with the next highest graded copy being only a CGC 9.0. Although it's definitely a nice looking copy here, still a bit surprised at the amount of color fading splatter in the red logo area at the top or is that from the glare of Heritage's bright lights that they used when they take their scans. Either way, hope this copy here goes for an absolute fortune since I have a nice HG copy of this book in my own personal collection, and like they say, a rising tide tends to lift all boats.

Yes, that plus definitely a chance for CCG and Heritage working together to empty out your bank account a lot faster than you might have expected.

Well, based upon my above post, I am definitely leaning much more towards the latter here, as opposed to the former.

My thoughts exactly. Well, definitely not to the same extent as the big Jon Berk Auction back in 2017 when he had over 3,000 books all up and done in one shot. From the looks of how everything's being loaded into their preview, I think there's going to be only a small fraction of the total 5,000 Promise Collection coming up in this next Signature Auction here. In addition, with the current pandemic and super crazy red hot money that seems to be floating into the collectibles space, I gotta believe there's a lot of new money on the sidelines that will also be coming in and will help to rocket prices only further upwards. Especially with what we've seen take place in the key and high grade, but readily available BA and CA marketplaces. It will definitely be fun and interesting to watch as I guess we'll all be watching what takes place next month.

I think you are right. Since this was around a $20k book at the beginning of the year, I am certain that the consignor is happy. Yes, probably even more happy that he made it out just in time since the last sale on CL saw a further drop back down to the $47K price point.