lou_fine

Try telling this to the consignor who just tried to sell their CGC 9.2 highest graded copy of Action 13 in a recent auction and managed to fetch something like only $166K for the book, or at a rather sizable discount to current top of guide valuation at $190K. Absolutely shocking from my point of view as I was expecting this book to go for something in the neighborhood of a quarter million dollars or thereabouts. Especially surprising since Action 13 is a book that has ALWAYS ALWAYS historically sold for not only big premiums, but also at multiples to condition guide in the past before, as clearly evident by the fact that a raw Poor condition copy was able to fetch almost $15K a few years ago. Even more so when you consider that the CGC 9.2 graded Atlantic City Copy was able to fetch $185K in a CC Auction back in 2011 when top of guide for this book was set at only a piddly $30K. From watching the timing of the auction bids, it was clear the the winner should be ecstatic with their win as they clearly had a higher bid in on the book before the end of the auction. So much for the opt-repeated conspiracy theory of possible shill bidding in auctions, at least in this particular case. Especially since the lack of additional bidders willing to up the bid in this particular go round this time is what kept the price down so low. That plus the fact that it's also probably not a good idea to bring such a high profile book like this one here back into the marketplace so soon after just a year and hope to make any money on it. I guess this is where we can also cue in @tth2 latest version of his tagline, that is: "sometimes he really DOES love this hobby".

I would say that from viewing auction results here and there over the past few years, this is sadly a pretty accurate observation in most cases. Except for certain covers or semi-key issues, many of the DC titles such as Adventure, Superboy, World's Finest, etc. are able to sell at only discounts to condition guide. I believe this most likely have a lot to do with the nature of their cover images which shall we say certainly leaves a lot to be desired.

I guess this shows how well you've done just by simply holding onto this book for so long.

Well, definite congrats on an absolutely amazing pickup for a blow-out steal of a price at only $5 dollars. The only thing I am not sure and confused about is your timeline here. If it was 15 years ago, top of guide for a Suspense 3 was at only something like $18K as this book did not hit $100K in the guide until much later around the time of the 2016 price guide or thereabouts. Either way, you definitely can't go wrong hanging onto this book here, even with the splash page like that.

I would not consign individual books that would sell for less than $100 because of the $19 minimum BP. Usually lower priced books are sold together in lots to get above the value threshold that would make sense. Drat.......now you tell me, and after I spent the whole day gathering up all of my B&W Indie books, Jim Lee's ultra rare X-Men #1, Valiant's Deathmate run, etc. and lining them all up to ship to you guys down there in Dallas.

Actually, no, I honestly wasn't even thinking of Heritage scans. I like their bright scans. It's a blessing in comparison to what you get to work with from some sellers dismally dark scans and ultra-low res Polaroid-like pics on ebay, some so bad that if they didn't list the label grade in the title, you couldn't even tell! That is until you get the actual book shipped to you from Heritage in all its darker than expected glory and then you wish they had taken the picture with an ultra-low res Polaroid because that is actually much more reflective of the true colors of the book.

Now, that's actually a fantabulous idea which you have here. No doubt they are concern that the other houses would simply have to offer the same complimentary service and now they would have to provide this additional labor intensive service with no offsetting benefits to be gained for them. In addition, it would probably end up leaving the impression of a low quality no value service in the eyes of the marketplace.

Any idea if it has a secondary stickered label on the back of the slab which actually details the specific criteria which were met?

Just thought of something as the QES label with their detailed listing of individual criteria met for each book on the back just might make CL up their game a bit. This might force them to actually provide scans for the back of their slabs if they want to keep up with the boys at Metro. Well okay, probably not as CL seems to be doing just fine anyways with front cover scans only.

Nah. This is a visual-based hobby, the "eyes" have it, and you should rely on your eyes to determine the "heat" of the colors. Which books pop and which don't. In person, easy to tell. From scans, a little more difficult as some sellers impart an artificial hue to their images to augment eye appeal. I assume you must be referring to Heritage here since they really brighten up their scans to virtually unbelieveable colors. As a result, isn't this where the sticker might carry a bit of useful info and value since the "eyes" just might NOT have it when it comes to potentially misleading scans? It actually looks like the QES sticker would impart more information going forward since they will supposedly have a secondary label on the back of the slab listing the specific criteria which were met in order for this book to receive the QES label. Not sure about the CVA service, but it sounds as though they just slap the CVA sticker on the front and DON'T provide any specific details as to why this particular book qualified for the CVA label. The CL auction listing do provide you with a link to the CVA website, but that only lists their general generic criteria only, with nothing specific to that particular book.

Now, if they use this approach going forward, I am sure that a lot more consignors would be more than happy to go along with the scheme. After all, the consignor would now be paying for something that is a sure thing, as opposed to having to pay for something that they might or might NOT get. I guess CL doesn't have anything to lose as they already have to take a look at the slabbed book anyways in order to write up their auction description.

Sounds accurate. I am in Canada and it took a speedy 8.5 months since I dropped the comics off well BEFORE busy comicon summer season. This certainly sounds like a heck of a long time to me for a quick press and a grading. Is this actually within their targeted turnaround deadlines or is it well beyond their advertised or posted turnaround times for this Value tier?

Sounds like you are now thinking of a pre-screen for sticker service, similar to what CGC has in terms of their pre-screen for pressing service. Yes, why pay for the full shot if you are not going to be gaining anything from it? The only question being, how would they be able to separate the pre-screen work from the actual full job itself.

From my point of view, this type of service would appear to be targeted to the CGC generation of label chasers and submitters who blindly send 100% of their books in for pressing before getting them graded, whether it needs it or not. So, what's one more additional cost to them since they know there's stil a lot of buyers out there who buys the label, and now hopefully, they'll also buy the sticker. For the old time pre-CGC generation of collectors, definitely not so much.

Well, they've already got a lively discussion going with respect to this particular topic if you trek to the Comics General thread:

Are you trying to tell me that 6 months or whatever it takes is already not long enough for you to get a book back from CGC? You now want to tie them down with much more tedious paperwork so that the turnaround times can increase to over a full year. In addition, just imagine the additional cost involved which no doubt will surely be passed down to all of their customers.

If they did this, it wouldn't be a proper money grab. Actually, in theory it would be as long as you can convince the consignors to keep on submitting the books for the QES/CVA check. Especially since the consignor would have to pay for the check whether they actually qualify for the sticker or not. In a way, is this not similar to pressing whereby many submitters are now getting their books pressed prior to grading, just on the off chance that it might help bump it up to the a high grade? No doubt, in a lot of cases, if made absolitely no difference at all to the final grade and yet, they wasted extra money on this process. With the current sentiment in the marketplace, this is a huge money maker for the pressing companies and a potential big loss for the submitters paying for a service with absolutely no subsequent benefits gained. Of course, since some submitters are smart enough to do the cheaper pre-screen for pressing service instead, I wonder if we are going to be seeing a pre-screen for these stickers services next. Especially since that would actually make a lot more sense on the part of the consigners.

Since we are talking about QES and CVA stickers, maybe we should look at an example of 2 equivalent graded copies of the same book: Now, since they both have the exact same CGC 3.5 grade, I would have to assume that they should in theory be pretty much the same in terms of their structural quality. As for their visual quality though, I would say that one of them is clearly superior to the other from a strict visual point of view and should be further up the ladder for qualifying for one of these sticker labels. I'll leave it up to your imagination as to guess which one it should be. BTW: Can't for the life of me figure out how a book falls off the Restoration plate when it has pieces added and also a Married Cover, but that's a topic for another thread.

Well, it's definitely as much of a joke for some buyers apparently willing to pay multiples more for a CGC 9.8 graded copy of an otherwise common book as they would for CGC 9.6 graded copy if they can't tell the differences between the 2 books. And it would be totally irrational for them to pay more for an inferior looking 9.8 graded copy that might have been graded during a so-called "loose" grading time period, as opposed to a superior looking 9.6 graded copy that might have been graded during a so-called "tight" grading time period. And yet they apparently do.

Both. e.g. If a slab is say CGC 5.0 with CVA Exceptional sticker (that costs about $35 depending on estimated market value of comic), consignor will get aggressive 5.5 level bids. +1 Exactly right as long as the consignor is willing for the QES/CVA check, then an equivalent graded copy of the same book with superior qualities (i.e. usually visual qualities that CGC does not focus on because they are more about structural qualities) should qualify for these stickers. I guess if verified properly, these superior "visual looking" books relative to other copies in the same equivalent grade should in theory get the QES/CVA stickers and hence a higher premium, assuming they had paid for this service. In a perfect world with fully knowledgeable buyers and sellers, these books should in theory receive a premium price with or without a QES/CVA sticker. Of course, we all know this is not a perfect world and buyers/sellers often do not take the time or have the ability or confidence to tell the difference, and hence the value of the stickers. After all, rumours have it that buyers are oftentimes willing to pay multiples more for a CGC 9.8 graded copy of an otherwise common book as compared to a CGC 9.6 graded copy of a book, even if they can't discern any noticeable differences between the 2 books. I can certainly understand paying a slight premiun in this type of situation, but multiples...........go figure that.

+1 I would definitely agree with the gist of your comments here. This is why I could never understand when sellers of vintage collectible books would try to auction off their vintage collectible comic books on eBay. Especially when they could do it on any of the specialized comic book auction sites like CC, CL, or even HA at a lower percentage cost (except possibly for HA) where you have a much better chance of the right eyeballs looking at your books, along with the additional bonus of not having to do any of the hard selling and associated shipping work. Now, if you are talking about the much more recent or Modern common books with hundreds of uber HG copies already slabbed, Yes for eBay, since the client base for the specialized auction houses generally don't care for these kinds of speculative books. Especially since these kinds of books would tend to do much better in an eBay setting, with their client base generally being graded label chasers which is pretty much what the majority of these books would be.

Yes, it would appear that QES is to Metro & ComicConnect what CVA is to ComicLink. I assume CC must be trying to provide the same type of service to their consignors as to what CL is providing to their consignors. Appears to be a competitive response in kind, especially in light of some of the astounding record prices that some of these CVA stickered books are fetching in the CL Auctions. Certainly does appear to be another way for grading companies and now auction houses to squeeze even more money out from the seller's pockets knowing full well how much attention some buyers and potential bidders are continuing to pay towards the labels when it comes to makng a decision on bidding for a particular book. Especially since they know there's still a huge proportion of rabid speculators and flippers out there who continues to buy the label, as opposed to buying the book.

Well, it's all really relative from my own personal point of view. After all, if you compare the numbers for any comic book, they are indeed RARE compare to the grains of sand on a beach or the number of stars in our universe.

+1 I think this really depends on when you had actually purchased your books that you are now thinking of selling. Especially if it was from way back in the days like Jon Berk and some of the other early collectors like him. Especially when he himself acknowledges that he would never be able to reacquire most of the books in his huge collection which he had, if he had to pay according to today's much higher and inflated market prices.

The Overstreet Grading Guide also, at one point (and perhaps for a number of years) explicitly recommended that people get their books professionally restored. Since I don't own any of the Overstreet Grading Guides myself, I am not sure if your statement is correct here or not. I do know though that the Overstreet Comic Book Price Guides did in fact have contributors back in the latter part of the 70's and the early parts of the 80's authored portions of the guide whereby they did indeed recommended the professional restoration of comic books as this type of activity when professionally and properly done was deemed to add value to an unrestored book for a period of time back then. Your comment was so much of a flashback to the past, that I decided to dig out some of my old price guides. My first price guide was the Overstreet Guide #7 issued back in 1977 and it looks like Bill Sarill had a < 1-page piece page at the front of the guide talking about the deacidification of comic books. Looks like this must have been running previously in the guide as Sarill mentions prior versions of his write-up in the previous 2 editions of the guide. By the time of the Overstreet Guide #14 issued back in 1984, this little section had morphed itself into a full blown 7-page piece authored by Ernst Gerber and Dr. Richard Smith on the proper storage and preservation of comic books, including charts and graphs discussing various techniques for the preservation and restoration of comic books, along with some of their pros and cons. Looks like this craze must have peaked in the very early parts of the 80's as the Overstreet Guide (i.e. in the Storage, Preservation, and Restoration piece authored by Ernst Gerber and William Sarill) even went so far as to say that the valuations of restored books which do not alter the original state of the comic book and does not involve adding new elements to the books could result in these books reaching the same values as books which did not require this type of work. They then went on to say that even books which did require the addition of new elements would also increase in value, but nowhere near to the same levels as the first category of restored books. I assume this whole fad with seeing restoration as adding value to a book must have slowly died out by the mid-80's as the Overstreet Guide #14 basically left it up to the individual collector to look at the pros and cons of restoration in order to determine if it would add value to the book. I guess the final nail in the coffin of this fad was reached in the Overstreet Guide #15 when it completely removed the entire preservation of comic books section and simply reduced it back down to a short 3-sentence paragraph talking about the deacidification of comic books under the Storage of Comic Book section of the guide. I guess by then, restoration must have fallen out of favor in the marketplace due to what Borock used to term as the Wild Wild West Days when unscrupulous comic book mechanics would sit in their darkened dungeons working on books and then foisting them onto an unsuspecting marketplace as unrestored books. Fast forward now 25 to 35 years later to the CGC era (i.e. post 2005 after pressing, cleaning, etc, was evenutally outed over time) and is there really that much of a difference at all? Sure, the techniques have improved with some of them becoming much more refined and subtle, but isn't the sentiment pretty much the same as the one which you had voiced in your post above. Especially when you can open up any recent edition of the Overstreet guide and you can see a proliferation and huge explosion (relative to what we had in the 80's) of ads for the so-called "maximization of potential" of books. Although they don't say it, is this really not once again pretty much the same intent in terms of the undisclosed manipulation of comic books because I have yet to see a single ad by a seller or auction listing which states that a particular book has already been maximized to its full potential? You would think that if this was a truly above board procedure, that sellers and auction houses would want to list this in their description, as it should give more value to the book if the buyer knows in advance they don't have to waste any more money trying to improve an already fully maxed out book. Makes me wonder what the sentiment in the marketplace will be if we fast forward to say another 20 or 25 years from today. Will this same maximization of potential for books still be in vogue, even if technology improves to the point whereby cost effective methods for the artifical manipulation of books is readily available to the collecting public? Or will we continue to move in the same current growing and expanding rampant direction as even more and more activities falls off the Restoration plate and onto the Conserved or even Unrestored plates? I guess only time will tell as to what eventually happens as we move forward.